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From	Message
dmaestro 20-Dec-12, 18:13	Record Gun Sales Gun sales in the US are setting records. I wonder why...  c
thumper 20-Dec-12, 18:43	You're a great salesman?
dmaestro 20-Dec-12, 19:20	I suspect there is fear that those advocating "gun safety" are winning. Polls show it.
softaire 20-Dec-12, 21:19	I suspect that there is fear we are gonna fall off the fiscal cliff and in 6 months nobody will be working, there will be no money & no credit, and the shelves will be empty. There will be gangs roaming the streets looking for the weak (those without the means to protect themselves and their families) and the people are "stocking up" for the coming BO caused pandemonium.
thumper 20-Dec-12, 21:27	Like I said, DM is a great salesman.
softaire 20-Dec-12, 21:43	Isn't it just like a flaming liberal to, once again, misunderstand the real cause of the problems. They seem to think that confiscating guns and nullifying the 2nd Amendment is "gun safety". It is really a dangerous course giving even more power and control to an out-of-control government. The general public though has become so "dumbed-down" that they do not know, understand or care about the ramifications. We have a public that is, in general, weak, stupid and only interested in what BO can promise to give them. We have "salesmen" like DM who don't have an argument to sell... but what they say, they say over and over and over again. And, our non-thinking public hear it so often that they begin to think it true.
dmaestro 20-Dec-12, 22:20	If gun deaths are much higher in the USA than countries that have limited guns, it seems reasonable that gun safety would involve less guns available to get into the hands of those who should not have them. That IS a reasonable argument, one that the public can support.
changeling 21-Dec-12, 02:05	softy I hope you don't really believe that crap you posted about of falling off the fiscal cliff being the reason gun sales are up! I guess you didn't read the piece I put up about Sturm, & Ruger via the stock exchange then! That was one from early in the year, since then their sales and profits and shares have skyrocketed. Fiscal cliff fear! No. Fear that the big bad government might take away the guns, probably, even though anyone with any sense can see that will not happen, regardless of how many schoolchildren are shot to death in the US. It is a backlash on anyone attempting stricter gun control measures, people are simply getting in first, pure and simple.The Obama bash really has run its course by now, don't you think? When are going to get real about the fiscal problems. The fiscal cliff is just a term that has been coined. Everyone everywhere on the planet knows that eventually compromise must out. No-one in their right mind will allow the US to go under financially, not even your die-hard republicans.
softaire 21-Dec-12, 07:14	change You really need to settle down. You seem to get as exercised as DM occasionally. There are several reasons for increased gun sales. The possibility that the government will stop gun sales all together is one. The possibility that many types and ammunition will become very limited is another. The possibility that we fall off the fiscal cliff and descend into anarchy is another. (It is a real possibility whether you choose to believe or or you choose to discount it) When you tell me to "get real" about our fiscal problems, you show some ignorance of the problem. I, the TEA Party, and other conservatives have been saying for some time now that our fiscal problems are caused by spending too much. We are $16 trillion in debt right now. It is growing every day. We spend over a $trillion more than we earn every year. There has NOT been a budget since BO became President. When we go over the fiscal cliff, meaning that there will be huge tax increases and huge spending cuts, every economist has said THAT will push us back into recession. And, you want to tell me to "get real" because I say we should address these problems?
changeling 21-Dec-12, 07:23	softy "...I suspect that there is fear we are gonna fall off the fiscal cliff and in 6 months nobody will be working, there will be no money & no credit, and the shelves will be empty. There will be gangs roaming the streets looking for the weak (those without the means to protect themselves and their families) and the people are "stocking up" for the coming BO caused pandemonium..." Hence the "get real" comment. Seriously softy! I need to settle down! rotflmao In the words of the great John McEnroe "You can't be serious". Oh btw: Why is this? "...There has NOT been a budget since BO became President..."
chaz- 21-Dec-12, 07:45	Change ... ... Softy, Dm, Thumper, and others tend to belittle others who post regularly ... always posting something that each one wants to use to get under the skin of someone else who's trying to discuss stuff maturely. Softy never relents in his anti-Obama rants ... and he says to "settle down" when all he's doing is playing this self-righteous game. And, thus, the issues get buried in the piles of anti-somethings ... it's a repetitious and rude posting tactic to make sure they win the fencing match. You're better than I am at pointing out the obvious, and trying to do so civilly ... but now watch how I will, once again, be attacked for pouting or something. It's just a shallow tactic.
softaire 21-Dec-12, 07:49	There has not been a budget since BO has been president for two reasons: BO and Harry Reid. BO has submitted budgets that are so ludicrous that not even ONE Democrat would vote for them/ Harry Reid (Democrat leader in the Senate) has not allowed discussion of a budget on the Senate floor, nor has he allowed any votes on any budgets in the Senate. The House of Representatives have passed several budgets but they do not get discussed in the Senate. To pass a budget, a budget must be passed in BOTH chambers and then a conference committee from each gets together to work out the differences. When they compromise and agree, then THAT bill is sent to the President for signature, or veto. But if one chamber refuses to participate, no bill gets passed. I thought you knew that.
changeling 21-Dec-12, 07:52	softy Yes I did.   Not even one democrat would vote for them? So, you are telling us now that Obama is so far removed from his own party that they do not trust him with fiscal policy? How come he was endorsed and re-elected then?
softaire 21-Dec-12, 07:54	Oh, poor Chaz... so picked upon. At least Change and DM have topic content to discuss. I enjoy discussions with them. I enjoy disagreeing with their views. They have views and opinions. All I ever hear from you is how you interpret everything as anti-civil, rude, shallow, fencing. You never have any content yourself... just pretending you want everyone to acquiesce and be "centrists". The word "milk toast" comes to mind.
softaire 21-Dec-12, 07:59	change Yes, he submitted budgets that were defeated 98-0 etc. Check it out with DM. He and Harry Reid do not want budgets passed. They control 2/3 of the government. He got re-elected because most people in the U.S. do NOT have a clue, nor care about what they do in Washington. Most people (especially those who voted for BO) only care about getting something from the government... which he promised profusely. Most people do not know the names of important people in Washington or what they do and they certainly do not know about or care about the ramifications of legislation and policies there. You know way much more than most Americans.
changeling 21-Dec-12, 08:03	Does that mean you think Americans are by and large dummies? The corporations also 'want' something from the government (any government).
softaire 21-Dec-12, 08:12	change I have made my views on our education system known, a lot. I think that 60 years of liberal domination of the educational system has "dumbed-down" the general knowledge of the "average" American such that they do not know or understand history, civics, reading and writing, and governmental theories. I believe this has been on purpose. It started, in earnest, by Nikita Kruschev when he told us they would bury us from within. It has continued with growing acceptance of socialism and I see it building eventually to totalitarianism. We are well on the road because of this last administration and it is building.
chaz- 21-Dec-12, 08:39	Softy ... ... you give no evidence for this "dumbing down" claim ... just another anti-gov't rant. Are there no other reasons this could have happened that have nothing to do with whatever administration is in office? Could not the public be getting exactly what they ask for ... and it's a social issue? Or, has there just been too much capitalism or something? ... to say it's happening on purpose is ludicrous ... and blaming socialism is just another one of your repetitious rants. The whole World has been moving more socialistically for centuries ... why are you resisting this overwhelming cultural evolution? Pure capitalism isn't the answer ... we've proved that! Again, I say, a better balance between socialism and capitalism is the likely answer. Try being more objective about your contentions ... or do you live in perpetual fear of evolution itself?
chaz- 21-Dec-12, 11:45	... he who cannot adapt to a changing environment will not likely survive.
softaire 21-Dec-12, 14:25	chaz Can you give me YOUR idea of what "better balance between socialism and capitalism" means, please? and btw... if you were able to pay attention for more than a minute, you'd remember all of my rants on what I mean by "dumbing-down" of America. It's not really too difficult to figure out on your own however.
changeling 21-Dec-12, 16:06	softy "...I believe this has been on purpose. It started, in earnest, by Nikita Kruschev when he told us they would bury us from within..." Still looking for reds under the beds? It is ludicrous to think Kruschev has/had anything to do with influencing your education system. More likely lack of funds, low wages for teachers (over the sixty years you mention) and god fearing righteous school boards. There was a small win for the educators in Louisiana just recently that I believe is a step forward. They have just banned creationism or intelligent design being taught in 'science' classes. This is opposite of what Texas (US benchmark for education curriculum's I believe) is advocating. Good on Louisiana, let's hope other states follow suit, rapidly!
chaz- 21-Dec-12, 19:00	Softy ... ... I see more of your 'put downs' before each of your questions ... is that supposed to entice anyone to take you seriously? You have ignored all of my previous suggestions. I keep forgetting that it's hard for you to ask anything without putting someone down.
softaire 21-Dec-12, 22:56	chaz You are wrong once again. I asked you a serious question before I "put you down". I didn't think you'd be able to answer it anyway. Next time, I'll know simply to put you down, unless you can stumble your way into some answer.
chaz- 22-Dec-12, 09:10	Softy ... ... if your put-downs are that important to you, go right ahead. I'll converse with the more serious posters here, as I have now begun to do.
softaire 22-Dec-12, 09:20	chaz I did ask you a serious question. I have asked you serious questions in several posts. You never answer them, especially a direct question. So, if you choose to ignore my posts, it is something you are already doing anyway. The "put-downs" are reactions to your constant nagging about me taking a "middle ground". Can you please tell me why anybody should give up their viewpoints and accept some "middle ground" that they consider only "half-correct"? Does DM shift to the "middle ground"? Does Jeff? Why then should Thumper, Stinky or I shift to the "middle" ground? What good does that do? We all generally hold fairly polite and reasoned conversations. (DM is a little extreme in his "passion" sometimes). As I have mentioned before, I enjoy those discussions and I enjoy disagreeing with them, Change etc. I don't believe it necessarily impolite or unreasonable to hold true to your beliefs and restate them several times, in different ways. WHY do you?
chaz- 22-Dec-12, 09:57	Softy ... ... your last post was indeed polite and straightforward, thank you. That you (and others) liberally use put-downs throughout your postings has gone too far ... I'm just pointing it out. This is an opinion and observation. If you do so toward me, I'm likely going to say so again. I do enjoy good discussions ... and I provide opinions quite often. I'm no master of anything, and my opinions are only as good as my own experiences. I'm not asking you to shift to anything ... nor do I ask anyone else to do so. I do ask questions which you have most often ignored anyhow which in turn does not persuade me to spend much time taking your questions seriously anymore. Examine other conversations (mine and others) for many sound and considerate examples. You have some difficulty looking at things introspectively it seems (you are not the only one, just a conspicuous one). That either you or I have 'the' answer is unimportant ... but our opinions need to be based upon something ... and it's that something which we end up talking about within these threads. Good luck to you, amigo.
dmaestro 22-Dec-12, 10:43	One clarification. I am more than willing to find middle ground based on what polls show is centrist and possible. It is hard to find middle ground wih those supporting a tea party that threatens anyone who raises taxes on millionaires for example despite losing the election on that issue.
dmaestro 22-Dec-12, 11:23	It is simple. You have to have a license to drive and to register your cars in a national database. Why not guns? Owners should be licensed annually and the government should know who has guns, what type, and how many. Possessing unregistered or significantly modified guns should be a serious crime and automatically trigger losing rights to have guns. All ammunition sales should be tied to a specific firearm and quantities limited without a permit. Outside of pre designated weapons for self defense purposes, extra guns and ammunition at residences should be secured and stored and owners should be liable for theft/misuse of improperly secured items. DUI triggers immediate seizure of guns. Medical doctors should annually certify under penalty that they know of nothing that might warrant suspension of gun rights. All this can be paid for by progressive taxation on guns and ammunition.
changeling 22-Dec-12, 13:53	AS a none gun owning person from another country I can see nothing wrong with those last comments by dm. Would those things put into effect restrict the freedom US citizens have in terms of the right to bear arms given by the second amendment?
thumper 22-Dec-12, 14:20	Do you want him? We'll sell him to you cheap....
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