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softaire 18-Jan-13, 10:33	HOLDER BEGS COURT TO STOP DOCUMENT RELEASE ON FAST AND FURIOUS This is the BO Administration being open, forthright, and "transparent" (HA) ********************************************************************* Attorney General Eric Holder and his Department of Justice have asked a federal court to indefinitely delay a lawsuit brought by watchdog group Judicial Watch. The lawsuit seeks the enforcement of open records requests relating to Operation Fast and Furious, as required by law. Judicial Watch had filed, on June 22, 2012, a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request seeking all documents relating to Operation Fast and Furious and “specifically [a]ll records subject to the claim of executive privilege invoked by President Barack Obama on or about June 20, 2012.” The administration has refused to comply with Judicial Watch’s FOIA request, and in mid-September the group filed a lawsuit challenging Holder’s denial. That lawsuit remains ongoing but within the past week President Barack Obama’s administration filed what’s called a “motion to stay” the suit. Such a motion is something that if granted would delay the lawsuit indefinitely. Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton said that Holder’s and Obama’s desire to continually hide these Fast and Furious documents is “ironic” now that they’re so gung-ho on gun control. “It is beyond ironic that the Obama administration has initiated an anti-gun violence push as it seeking to keep secret key documents about its very own Fast and Furious gun walking scandal,” Fitton said in a statement. “Getting beyond the Obama administration’s smokescreen, this lawsuit is about a very simple principle: the public’s right to know the full truth about an egregious political scandal that led to the death of at least one American and countless others in Mexico. The American people are sick and tired of the Obama administration trying to rewrite FOIA law to protect this president and his appointees. Americans want answers about Fast and Furious killings and lies.” The only justification Holder uses to ask the court to indefinitely delay Judicial Watch’s suit is that there’s another lawsuit ongoing for the same documents – one filed by the U.S. House of Representatives. Judicial Watch has filed a brief opposing the DOJ’s motion to stay. As the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform was voting Holder into contempt of Congress for his refusal to cooperate with congressional investigators by failing to turn over tens of thousands of pages of Fast and Furious documents, Obama asserted the executive privilege over them. The full House of Representatives soon after voted on a bipartisan basis to hold Holder in contempt. There were two parts of the contempt resolution. Holder was, and still is, in both civil and criminal contempt of Congress. The criminal resolution was forwarded to the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia Ronald Machen–who works for Holder–for prosecution. Despite being technically required by law to bring forth criminal charges against Holder, under orders from Holder’s Department of Justice Machen chose to ignore the resolution. The second part of the contempt resolution–civil contempt of Congress–allowed House Republicans to hire legal staff to challenge President Obama’s assertion of the executive privilege. That lawsuit remains ongoing despite Holder’s and the DOJ’s attempt to dismiss it and settle it. It’s unclear what’s in the documents Obama asserted privilege over, but the president’s use of the extraordinary power appears weak. There are two types of presidential executive privilege: the presidential communications privilege and the deliberative process privilege. Use of the presidential communications privilege would require that the president himself or his senior-most advisers were involved in the discussions. Since the president and his cabinet-level officials continually claim they had no knowledge of Operation Fast and Furious until early 2011 when the information became public–and Holder claims he didn’t read the briefing documents he was sent that outlined the scandal and how guns were walking while the operation was ongoing–Obama says he’s using the less powerful deliberative process privilege. The reason why Obama’s assertion of that deliberative process privilege over these documents is weak at best is because the Supreme Court has held that such a privilege assertion is invalidated by even the suspicion of government wrongdoing. Obama, Holder, the Department of Justice, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and virtually everyone else involved in this scandal have admitted that government wrongdoing actually took place in Operation Fast and Furious. In Fast and Furious, the ATF “walked” about 2,000 firearms into the hands of the Mexican drug cartels. That means through straw purchasers they allowed sales to happen and didn’t stop the guns from being trafficked even though they had the legal authority to do so and were fully capable of doing so. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry and hundreds of Mexican citizens–estimates put it around at least 300–were killed with these firearms. The Fast and Furious scandal and more is covered in detail in the New York Times best-selling book Corruption Chronicles. www.breitbart.com
dmaestro 18-Jan-13, 10:54	Partisan witch hunt. Neither Obama or Holder had involvement.
chaz- 18-Jan-13, 10:59	... "... begs court ..." ahhh, such deliberately loaded language, words that didn't even appear in the article; there was no begging ... LOL. It's all about hate I s'pose.
proginoskes 18-Jan-13, 12:07	Well. If neither had involvement there should be no problem opening the records. Nothing to hide is nothing to hide. It will be good to get the records out there so we can clear the good names of both Obama and Holder.
dmaestro 18-Jan-13, 13:15	These records are held under executive privilege. Why should they be released?
softaire 18-Jan-13, 13:58	"These records are held under executive privilege. Why should they be released?" Because they are requested under a FOIA (it is the law) and it is the BO Administration being open, forthright, and "transparent". BO himself said that this would be the most open, forthright, and transparent administration. So did Nancy Pelosi. (You can't get any better than that)
dmaestro 18-Jan-13, 14:06	Foia only releases certain docs. Executive privilege is meaningless if any org with an agenda can get them through foia. Nice try!
proginoskes 18-Jan-13, 14:13	These documents should be released to that the good name of Holder and Obama can be cleared of course. Why would they want then to stay hidden . . . I wonder . . .
dmaestro 18-Jan-13, 14:34	Because some of the docs are not properly releasable under foia or to congress right now and you all are on a fishing expedition so you get nothing! These endless conspiracy theories are getting old. Obama never approved the operation so he could take your guns and he didn't sit there smiling to live coverage of an ambassador dying either. Prevention not blame is the proper focus.
proginoskes 18-Jan-13, 15:01	What about the documents would possibly be not "properly releasable"? lol I bet it's the part where Holder and Obama knew about it all along. There will never be any accountability in Washington until they are no longer allowed to do corrupt nonsense and then call it "secret".
anomalocaris 18-Jan-13, 15:18	CHaz Nice of you t point that out, no there was no begging, Funny how you are the anti softy but never comment on DM's racist post or his talks of war, you simply chose not to agree but never condemn him. Of course softy doesnt kiss your ass like DM does.
thumper 18-Jan-13, 15:22	What needs to be hidden? This wasn't the Manhattan Project or some super secret squirrel program. It was supposedly a basic 'sting' operation to track the movements of guns across the border. At least that's how it's being billed. They do that kind of crap all the time, no big shakes. The only reason those documents would be buried and hidden is if they showed damning info about illegal activity or damning info concerning the reason those weapons were allowed to walk in the first place. This is not rocket science... just apparent cya games.
chaz- 18-Jan-13, 15:54	Stinky ... ... but Softy attacks me regularly and often harshly, and I never see you defending me ... even though I occasionally will agree with Softy (perhaps you've ignored those particular positive remarks about Softy's comments). Dm doesn't attack me, and has defended me, true ... even though I have not agreed with everything he's said (perhaps you've ignored these particular critical remarks about Dm's comments I've made). Why are finding fault? Why can't you and I talk civilly?
dmaestro 18-Jan-13, 16:22	The executive privilege claim must be resolved first. The President may withhold from congress documents on internal communication and decision making inappropriate to release. That you think Obama is guilty is irrelevant. Obama has been cleared and it is witch hunt. As a matter of principle merit less partisan harrassment of the executive branch is not acceptable. This end run Foia claim by right wingers is premature. The election is over you lost. Move on...
tat3225 18-Jan-13, 16:50	Wait I'm sorry....how on Earth can anyone possibly get on here and post that Obama wasn't involved?......There was a request made for- specifically- documents pertaining to executive priviledge with respect to Fast and Furious. Not just fast and furious documents, but documents subject to the claim of executive priviledge. If Obama wasn't involved, there wouldn't be any documents to deny the release of. The denial IS the proof that Obama was involved. No one else would have executive priviledge. That's what executive priviledge means. This means that Barack Obama knew about and was involved in operation Fast and Furious. duhhhhhh..................
tat3225 18-Jan-13, 16:59	thumper "What needs to be hidden?" My guess is that the weapons were purchased with funds that came from accounts which....if you follow the web.....also made campaign donations to Barack Obama.
proginoskes 18-Jan-13, 17:07	We are all aware the election is over. This isn't about an election. It's about lying. It's about principle. The only reason not to release the documents, the only reason Obama threw privilege on them in the first place was because either Holder, himself or both were about to look pretty bad.
tat3225 18-Jan-13, 17:11	softaire "BO himself said that this would be the most open, forthright, and transparent administration" ..........................................."Never trust a man who says he doesn't like money. It is the lepars bell of an approaching looter."
dmaestro 18-Jan-13, 17:15	Tat, wrong again! Any record created by any executive branch employee even at low levels is potentially subject to executive privilege. It applies to the entire executive branch. Obama is only "guilty" of protecting separation of powers against an out of control right wing attack.
dmaestro 18-Jan-13, 17:31	It IS a matter of principle. Separation of powers. The President will not be pushed around by the GOP. The President was reelected despite fast and furious and Benghazi and most believe he is in innocent. Investigations have also cleared him. The President was mot and is not going to comply with what is really a personal and partisan vendetta lacking merit unless the Supreme Court rules against him. Obama won and he has majority support and so he is not going to be intimidated by partisan hacks just because they hate him!
proginoskes 18-Jan-13, 17:34	What is there to be intimidated about. He's innocent. Release the records. Clear your name. Lol The more you argue about this the stupider you look.
dmaestro 18-Jan-13, 17:50	No, prog because it sets a bad precedent. No president has or will accept a partisan witch hunt using such threats lest the congress harass them with endless fishing expedition demands. The congress should and previously has negotiated in good faith to obtain what it needs. All this was was red meat for you rightists, no substance. Since only the executive can execute the laws congress can't even prosecute and and can't convict nor are their votes for impeachment. This grandstanding is a joke.
dmaestro 18-Jan-13, 18:01	The President is elected by all the people. Some former criminal like Issa is only elected in some gerrymandered right wing district. Doesn't represent me or the majority at all. We are not going to let people like that destroy the President in some vendetta just because congress is a useless joke.
changeling 18-Jan-13, 18:06	If something 'too nasty' for the public to know about is being hidden by the Obama administration, it could well be something prior to his presidency. It could well be that the original operation was so flawed it put people in too much danger. It may well be that the Obama administration is withholding information that would destroy the Bush family. After all the Bush administration was never backward at sending people to die on false information before, information that was publicized as 'THE' reason to go to war (since been proven entire false and to be downright lies), not forgetting the famous "God told me to" wisecrack. How many Americans died over that little debacle (and the thousands of others). Conspiracy theory? Perhaps. Just as bad as the one some here are trying to prove. What did I read that one Obama hater has written somewhere "Nixon should have burnt the tapes". Wonderful! And these Obama haters want to be taken seriously. Good, bad or indifferent, the man is your president. He has privileges you do not, put in place by your own constitution. Get over it. let the 'lawyers' do their job and get paid enormous sums of money by those wishing to see a president brought down. At least some money is travelling through the US economy.
proginoskes 18-Jan-13, 18:15	If the record shows Bush is dirty, even better! All the more reason to release those records, clear Obama's name, clear Holder's name, show that Bush is a bad guy.
dmaestro 18-Jan-13, 18:19	These Obama haters let their uncontrolled hate get in the way of rationality. They are obsessed with hating and blaming Obama and with impeaching him, fact and precedent be damned. A minority but one we can never allow in power.
dmaestro 18-Jan-13, 18:23	If it were bush he would have done the same thing. Presidents do not accept this kind of behavior from congress. They do not need to see every document they asked for.
proginoskes 18-Jan-13, 18:27	[sarcasm]Yes. Congress should just be vestigial in nature, unless of course they are needed to pass a gun law, then they should just do what the president says.[/sarcasm] Do we have a monarchy? With a petulant king and a bunch of idiot lacky followers? Or do we have a government with checks and balances upon separation of powers? It is completely within congresses' Constitutional purview to ask for, expect, and get documents from the executive branch.
dmaestro 18-Jan-13, 18:34	Congress must be deterred from abusing its power in this way again by negative consequences. A firm stand for executive privilege, less documents than they could have got by good faith negotiations and refusal to prosecute along with the election loss has already cowed the once crowing GOP who thought they could sway the election. Red meat, no substance, a discredited house.
proginoskes 18-Jan-13, 18:38	What negative consequences? Lol The administration's small tantrum to not allow congress to see documents? Yeah. Sure showed them!! They clearly look like the bigger and innocent people here. Lol
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