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tactical_abyss 10-Apr-13, 18:21	e4 or d4 opening preferences? So which do you prefer...e4 or d4 for your openings and why?Or are you equally divided between the two?For some players just learning,I have my own opinions regarding the Queen pawn or King pawn openings...and which one they should study initially,but I will not give my input on this subject until I hear from some of the other club members to get their viewpoint first!I will check back from time to time and respond accordingly.
mistee 10-Apr-13, 19:48	Deleted by tactical_abyss on 04-Jul-13, 03:29.
sixofspades 11-Apr-13, 04:15	Deleted by tactical_abyss on 07-May-13, 16:19.
tactical_abyss 11-Apr-13, 10:32	sixofspades(and mistee)... Yes,I would have definitely suggested that to you...about experimenting with different openings to widen the scope of your game repertoire.Of course,do not forget that moves like 1.b3 or 1.Nf3 can simply transpose into various openings that would have started with 1.d4 or 1.e4 anyway. I suppose my point in the thread was that... when you "were" playing with the e or d openings....which did you prefer "at the time" and which one did you have more success with? I have a reason to ask this. My response here is for mistee above as well.... Opinions will vary greatly,but in theory and for learning purposes the d4 or e4 openings can and many times do have distinctive characteristics that separate one from the other. Let me back up a bit in my story,however,before I explain.In High School I was in the chess club and during that time in 1972,Fischer was playing Spassky.Now,as we all know,Fischer was the 1.e4 guy and the guy that stuck primarily with that opening and coined the phrase...."1.e4....Best by test".So with that famous match going on,it then was only proper and fitting that everyone wanted to copy the US hero's moves....e4.So everyone played this e4 opening.....all EXCEPT ME!I was the "thorn" stabbing at all the chess players in the club back then!And because all these players became brain froze to e4,when they encountered my 1.d4 "antisicilian" response or my Trompowski moves they became so lost on the board that many folded in less than 20 moves.Some players even refused to play me and simply take a forfeit loss!No wonder I had the first place trophy 4 years in a row! I have self analyzed my games over the years and let a GM or two at the Manhattan Chess club(now closed)take a look at my High School games and college chess games.After brewing and stewing things up,looking over both my e4 and d4 openings...we both came to a few conclusions: 1.d4 games many times more swifty leads to more "closed"type of games and 1.e4 many times tends to lead to quicker open type of games.Well so what you may ask? Well,it appeared to both the GM and myself that I excelled and learned faster,stronger and better at the game because most of my games with d4 had more of a closed and complex structure to the pieces,pawns ect.Due to this closed nature of the game,it required my brain to come up with deeper tactical insight and playing ability as opposed to an e4 game that statistically tended to open up faster and did not many times require nearly the same set of skills,even on a positional level.Now keep in mind,I was perhaps a 1600 player and my opponents were perhaps around 1400-1500 on average.So what I say about e4 and d4 does not necessarily correspond to 2200 players which tolls a much higher level of strategy.I'm speaking of the "learning curve"I was going through at the time and my other opponents. So in summary,its my opinion that studying the d4 openings first in closed positions has more learning value over the e4 openings because you are dealing with a closed position more often than not.The tactical value in closed positions can develop,for example,a better set of skills with your Knights,in order that you can visualize that fork better in tight positions as opposed to a fully open game under the e4 umbrella.The semi slav/anti-meran can have very complex positions.Just like the Russians throwing a baby into the water to learn how to swim and swim fast,I believe in the d4 openings for initial learning...then on to 1.e4!Now opinions will vary on that.Some players will say,no study the open positions first and then move on to more closed positions.I say no to this,because I believe that it is better to sharpen your skills with the more complex pawn chain configurations and tighter closed positions for brain training to hone your skills to higher plateau levels,quicker.In any case,many players are not comfortable with the Sicilian response to 1.e4,so playing 1.d4 has its advantages.In addition,let me add that 1.d4 is one of my favorite ways to respond(much more than 1.e4) due to the fact that "theory"and book lines can be more avoided in games like the Trompowski(1.d4,Nf6 2.Bg5).This forced my opponent to "think on his own" rather than follow some Ruy Lopez line 35 moves deep! Below is some things I copied and pasted off the internet that pretty much corresponds to what I said above.Please read through some of these links or reference them for a future reading: 1.e4 tends to lead toward play with the center free, or open of pawns. Hence, the definition of "open". 1.e4 e5 generally leads to fully open games. These are often marked by free ranging piece play in the center. Generally, castling early is absolutely essential when the center is fully open. 1.e4 vs most other lines generally leads to semi-open games, often with one central pawn traded off each. The play in the center is usually marked by the pawn structure being in flux for several moves. 1.d4 d5 generally leads to closed games. This term suggests that the central pawns remain in tact through most of the opening. The pieces generally position themselves to prepare for a central pawn break. The king is generally safer in the center for a few moves longer in closed positions. Closed positions are considered a bit tougher to play because they can be opened up at any time while open positions are rarely closed back up. The final major category, semi-closed positions generally refers to 1.d4 vs anything but 1...d5. These are quite similar to the closed positions, but just as the semi-open positions, generally have a greater range of pawn structures. 1.c4 usually results in semi-closed positions. Transpositions between different types of openings do occur, but it's relatively rare to have a fully closed game from 1.e4 or a fully open position from 1.d4 chess.stackexchange.com Again sixofspades and mistee... I highly suggest playing all kinds of different opening to increase your learning curve.You never know what your opponent is going to throw at you.I am very partial to 1.c4 myself and try to stick with the pure English lines rather than transpose to a Queens gambit declined. But this post was to impress upon you the subtle and psychological differences in the potential learning curve between e4 and d4.I know for sure that my chess abilities have improved faster and to higher levels due to the 1.d4 study in closed positions as opposed to the 1.e4 openings.Opinions will always vary,but perhaps my formula of success can be your proper formula to succeed better if you try it!
tactical_abyss 11-Apr-13, 11:45	Oh,I forgot to mention something on a sidenote: Practicing and studying just "any"other types of openings is not always recommended,until you improve alot more on the games that produce better central control of the board like e4 or d4.What i'm saying is that irregular openings such as 1.b4 or 1.g4 or perhaps as black....1.e4,g5 are not the best things to align your step by step improvement study/research.Irregular games by nature have underlying weakness's and a level of "unsoundness" that are historically avoided for many reasons,atleast in regular tournament play.So its better to train your mind on more solid openings that can sharpen your skills initially,rather than study openings that already have an inherited structural weakness in them.Even the Trompowsky,while moving out of book quicker than other openings,is NOT considered an irregular opening,like trying to move into unsound waters like 1.a4.There is a subtle but defined difference between moving into "uncharted waters"like a Tromp as opposed to deeper "unsound waters" like a Basman or a Sokolsky Opening. I always say hone your expertise first,before trying to win with a dull sword or trying to run your cruise ship down a narrow muddy inlet!Nothing wrong with experimenting,but,but,but! TA
marmalite 13-Apr-13, 15:37	e4 or d4? They're both equally good, so its your preference really! Unlike abyss I think less experieced players are better off with e4, it tends to lead to tactical rather than positional games so it helps you practise the basic tactical skills, which have to come before you can grasp all the positional complexities. Don't run before you can walk applies here   I agree with abyss following a 35 move Lopez line isn't the best way to learn, so simply don't use that variant of e4
tactical_abyss 13-Apr-13, 16:21	Deleted by tactical_abyss on 13-Apr-13, 16:35.
tactical_abyss 13-Apr-13, 16:35	Good points marmalite!I can agree with you as well.In a sense,its a toss up though.I have heard different opinions from stronger players than me... that having the icewater thrown at you in a closed deeper positional situations arising from the d4 games can jolt a player into finding out a bit quicker the level of positional perception they may have hidden from within via more critical/complex study and positions arising from the d4 games.Perhaps this is more of a hypermodern outlook?I'm sort of on the fence regarding the issue.I,too,have heard over the years that 1.e4 with respects to tactical is better to start off with...but some opinions are that the recipe of covering positional grasps with a bit less tactics has it equal or better(?) value as well in closed positions. So,I suppose I neither agree or disagree!I can only tell you from "my"experience,that I have started with the 1.d4 games and actually avoided the 1.e4 games for years and have been able to excel very well.To this day,my very strongest games with higher success rates have been the queen pawn games.For me,I firmly believe its due to stumbling for quite a while with the deeper closed positional play in the d4 games...then suddenly it "dawned"on me...I seen the chess light! Yes,maybe it was taking the Algebra before the general math,but when my brain unraveled the answers,it made my e4 games a breeze a few years later. So yes,I can agree e4 is better to start off with,but perhaps not necessarily with every player depending upon what level they may be able to grasp at better than others.I found that my talent seemed to be initially more positional anyway than others and thats one of the reasons I stuck to 1.d4 from the beginning.The flaw was,that I missed some of my opponents quick and close up tactical melee's that he occasionally gained on me from being the e4 guy! Also,I have many players telling me that they hate their black opponent for 1.e4,c5.Alot of beginners fear the Sicilian due to complexities.So you know what I tell them and how to avoid it!
baddeeds 03-May-13, 18:41	My favorite is actually 1.e4. I open with this more then 1.d4. It's because that's the opening that I was originally taught by Jack Stockel. The thing about 1.d4, is that I only played that for the QG, but I never liked it as well as the Ruy Lopez or Guaco Piano, especially because if you're not careful, black will often get a free in the QGA. Moreover, however, is the fact, that I am just more used to 1.e4, then 1.d4. Afterall, the idea is to, "Stick to what you know", as someone once said.
tactical_abyss 04-May-13, 04:19	Deleted by tactical_abyss on 04-May-13, 04:25.
tactical_abyss 04-May-13, 04:25	Deleted by tactical_abyss on 04-May-13, 04:41.
tactical_abyss 04-May-13, 04:41	Sticking with what you know best?Not necessarily! Jkarp, Yes,it is undeniably true that more players prefer the 1.e4 openings over 1.d4.I won't say that this is definitely true on "todays" GM levels,for I can point out many cases where it is not.But putting the GM thing aside...I noticed even as far back as High School that everyone was playing the e4 thing.This was especially true since during my time back in School,Bobby Fischer was having his famous match with Spassky.Of course,then it was only logical that everyone was going to "follow"the USA's pride against Spassky who represented that "evil" along with Russia during the cold war!It was a psychological penalty to play the "pussy like","female like"....1,d4!You dare play something "different"and against something that Fisher claimed was "stronger"by his own words...."1.e4,Best by test"?Yes it is true...even I got dirty looks thrown back at me across the chess board! But,did I dare to be indifferent to Fischer and everyone else?Yes!You bet!!Infact,I stuck to the 1.d4 opening for a reason.The reason was something I began to notice.And what was I noticing?Answer:I was winning more!Why?The reason was simple.Everyone was playing the 1.e4 opening,getting better at it on both sides and they programmed their own brains in that e4 thing so much that when I threw a "monkey wrench"into it with 1.d4 and developed more of a closed game complex nature with it....my opponents began to fall like flies!They overlooked many of my "hidden"tactics in positions that remained closed longer than many 1.e4 games provided.So I played against what they were used to.Even "fools mate" in just a few moves became their undoing. So,does this strategy work the same way today with some of my or other opponents on GK?You bet it does!If I go into an opponents past history of games I have observed many players that always open up(or mostly) with 1.e4 or play the Sicilian against the e4.But a good number of those same players if you take the time to break down their loss on either side of the d4 games... are greater in numbers! So,in summary,the strategy i'm speaking of here,is to get BETTER at something your opponent is more "uncomfortable" or unfamiliar playing with...the d4 games!Again,my best and strongest wins have been using the 1.d4 openings,not the 1.e4.And if i'm doing it,why can't you?Part of becoming better is rounding yourself out,not sticking to your favorite brand of ice cream! game game Then if you combine a bit of the unusual or even a Tromp or variation of a Tromp you get: game The other reason is that games like the Ruy Lopez and Piano have been analyzed to death!And the opening book lines can go as far as 40 + moves!Not so much on your level,jkarp,but on the higher levels,this can and does produce way too many draws.So the key here is to: 1.Play games that your opponent is not as familiar with for a surprise weapon..(like 1.d4) 2.In many cases VARY your move out of book,not by necessarily making a weak move,but by perhaps making a subtle pawn move like 9.a3 or something to that effect that will throw your opponents opening book in the garbage.Now he's on his own,without that mangy book! 3.And this one is for you jkarp:The "stick to what you know" logic works both ways and can be twisted by saying it another way:"Stick to openings that your opponent does NOT know!" For if both you and your opponent are comfortable with the 1.e4 games and are playing your best at those King games,wouldn't it make even more sense to practice and study and get as good or better at the d4(black and white side) or even the true English 1.c4 games and come back to that same repetitious e4 player and play him in his "uncomfort"zone???? Plus,a stronger opponent must be well rounded in much more than the 1.e4 openings and defenses and must be prepared for anything that is thrown their way.Having just a few 1.e4 openings and defensive e4 play today,even being your "best"at well,sorry to say...is NOT good enough!!!Those type of players in the long run will simply be crushed to death on the board(by stronger opponents) or at the very least will not improve dramatically in rating.And you might be saying...well,yes,stronger opponents should beat me!But how did they become stronger?By always playing the e4 games?....probably not,atleast on the statistical scale.You must be prepared to move beyond that narrow tunnel of simply being in your own comfort zone.Hey,i'm comfortable in my house,until some nut comes around,locks metal plates on all the widows and doors and then burns the house down!Same with your chess game!Understand?
mrmarmalade 04-May-13, 05:08	Deleted by tactical_abyss on 07-May-13, 16:20.

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