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apatzer 08-Apr-20, 10:41	Bonhoeffer on Stupidity (entire quote) Written by Averett Jones on December 31, 2019 at 11:04 am (This week’s editorial is from Dietrich Bonhoeffer, one of my personal heroes. Bonhoeffer was hanged by Adolf Hitler in 1945.) Taken from a circular letter, addressing many topics, written to three friends and co-workers in the conspiracy against Hitler, on the tenth anniversary of Hitler’s accession to the chancellorship of Germany… ‘Stupidity is a more dangerous enemy of the good than malice. One may protest against evil; it can be exposed and, if need be, prevented by use of force. Evil always carries within itself the germ of its own subversion in that it leaves behind in human beings at least a sense of unease. Against stupidity we are defenseless. Neither protests nor the use of force accomplish anything here; reasons fall on deaf ears; facts that contradict one’s prejudgment simply need not be believed- in such moments the stupid person even becomes critical – and when facts are irrefutable they are just pushed aside as inconsequential, as incidental. In all this the stupid person, in contrast to the malicious one, is utterly self-satisfied and, being easily irritated, becomes dangerous by going on the attack. For that reason, greater caution is called for than with a malicious one. Never again will we try to persuade the stupid person with reasons, for it is senseless and dangerous. ‘If we want to know how to get the better of stupidity, we must seek to understand its nature. This much is certain, that it is in essence not an intellectual defect but a human one. There are human beings who are of remarkably agile intellect yet stupid, and others who are intellectually quite dull yet anything but stupid. We discover this to our surprise in particular situations. The impression one gains is not so much that stupidity is a congenital defect, but that, under certain circumstances, people are made stupid or that they allow this to happen to them. We note further that people who have isolated themselves from others or who live in solitude manifest this defect less frequently than individuals or groups of people inclined or condemned to sociability. And so it would seem that stupidity is perhaps less a psychological than a sociological problem. It is a particular form of the impact of historical circumstances on human beings, a psychological concomitant of certain external conditions. Upon closer observation, it becomes apparent that every strong upsurge of power in the public sphere, be it of a political or of a religious nature, infects a large part of humankind with stupidity. It would even seem that this is virtually a sociological-psychological law. The power of the one needs the stupidity of the other. The process at work here is not that particular human capacities, for instance, the intellect, suddenly atrophy or fail. Instead, it seems that under the overwhelming impact of rising power, humans are deprived of their inner independence, and, more or less consciously, give up establishing an autonomous position toward the emerging circumstances. The fact that the stupid person is often stubborn must not blind us to the fact that he is not independent. In conversation with him, one virtually feels that one is dealing not at all with a person, but with slogans, catchwords and the like that have taken possession of him. He is under a spell, blinded, misused, and abused in his very being. Having thus become a mindless tool, the stupid person will also be capable of any evil and at the same time incapable of seeing that it is evil. This is where the danger of diabolical misuse lurks, for it is this that can once and for all destroy human beings. ‘Yet at this very point it becomes quite clear that only an act of liberation, not instruction, can overcome stupidity. Here we must come to terms with the fact that in most cases a genuine internal liberation becomes possible only when external liberation has preceded it. Until then we must abandon all attempts to convince the stupid person. This state of affairs explains why in such circumstances our attempts to know what ‘the people’ really think are in vain and why, under these circumstances, this question is so irrelevant for the person who is thinking and acting responsibly. The word of the Bible that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom declares that the internal liberation of human beings to live the responsible life before God is the only genuine way to overcome stupidity. ‘But these thoughts about stupidity also offer consolation in that they utterly forbid us to consider the majority of people to be stupid in every circumstance. It really will depend on whether those in power expect more from people’s stupidity than from their inner independence and wisdom.’ -Dietrich Bonhoeffer, from ‘After Ten Years’ in Letters and Papers from Prison (Dietrich Bonhoeffer Works/English, vol. 8) Minneapolis, MN: Fortress Press, 2010. southsidemessenger.com
apatzer 08-Apr-20, 10:42	‘But these thoughts about stupidity also offer consolation in that they utterly forbid us to consider the majority of people to be stupid in every circumstance. It really will depend on whether those in power expect more from people’s stupidity than from their inner independence and wisdom.’
saguaro 08-Apr-20, 14:27	Deleted by saguaro on 08-Apr-20, 15:27.
servantmk1042 09-Apr-20, 04:33	Bonhoeffer on stupidity This is certainly a timely message. I am reminded of the catch phrase " you can't fix stupid " by a niece several years ago. I had never heard that phrase before then. The idea that the "consolation" offered by "these thoughts about stupidity " can suggest that " the majority of people are not " stupid in every circumstance " . Evil always seems to play a hand in the affairs of men . If more people realized that, and determined to focus on defeating that evil we would have a better world. Naive to think that that would happen in this present age . It is as much a personal battle as it is a group battle. This makes me grateful for the encouragement I find in the Scriptures. Ephesians 6 : 10 - 20 . Except for this : Ephesians 6: 10 " Finally , be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. " my efforts would be and indeed are futile. And in that would lie my agreement to accept stupid , which I can't fix { because it would be my own, and not His. No question ! I must rely on Jesus for strength. I love that the Apostle Paul was writing to a group when this portion of Ephesians was penned by the direction of the Holy Spirit. Fighting alone is tiresome . This is a shared fight. The first share is the most important. Share what we have been given as a gift. We share our faith in Him who cannot be defeated. Your post is thought provoking. Bonhoeffer is a hero of mine as well. His testimony in seeing and understanding what Hitler was about is a kind of beacon. Thank you for your post.
apatzer 09-Apr-20, 08:58	Thank you Mr. Paul One phrase in the good post that you wrote stuck out to me. "Evil always seems to play a hand in the affairs of men . If more people realized that, and determined to focus on defeating that evil we would have a better world"~ Paul First we must defeat the evil that is in ourselves (daily) fully and completely. If that is not done. we meerly wash a dirty car with muddy rags. It is also a very slippery slope, because more often than not. Man resorts to fighting evil with evil. If you fight evil with evil, evil always wins. Evil must be overcome with good. No man is good only God is good. The Bible makes this very clear in ... 1 Corinthians 5 Secondly we should never approve, condone, support anything that is considered evil, in order to fight against, what that evil says is evil. Least we be decived. We only introduce new and unexpected evil into the world when we do that. Also evil often masquerades as good. Hence the saying the road to hell is paved with good intentions. The way to insulate ourselves and also work on our own evil. Is through the word. But hear we also have to be careful. For the word has been missrepresented, used and abused for evil intent. Such as the accumulation of wealth, power and control. So don't allow yourself to be fed by others. Especially those with unclean hands and who cling to wealth. This is just my opinion that I share with you, not a lecture. Just my thoughts. If every single person fought to remove all evil from themselves first and foremost. Then we would achieve the goal. If every single person fought to rid the world of evil and destroy it, we enter WW3 and the destruction of the world. It would be a new form of Chaos never seen before. Because unless we rid evil in ourselves, we can not and will not see clearly.
servantmk1042 09-Apr-20, 11:13	evil is insideous I like what you wrote. When I was a child , I would go to church because my parents took me to church. I did not think of it in terms of a choice . But my Dad made going to church a wonderful task. I don't know exactly how he did this , but going to church was a part of the week. It was a duty. Looking back over the years I realize that the time was well spent. I did not realize that it was the Lord's doing and my parents devotion that took 5 kids through that. But, for sure , three was a lot of prayer through those years offered up for our family. But as I look back, I was not a dedicated , devoted , believer all that time. I know that bad choices and a weakened moral fabric was the deception that found me looking for the loopholes in faith. There are no loopholes in faith. It was a trick of the devil. You have to learn what peer pressure can do to a person. You cannot simply suppose that you can beat it without learning what it is. Jesus died for the things that we truly could not accomplish. A young Christian needs to learn that. It cannot be simply supposed. Grace given and grace accepted is grace experienced.
servantmk1042 30-Apr-20, 06:12	" The power of the one needs the stupidity of the other." Even in our own ' church history ' everything seems to get all messed up. When you read of the " wisdom of Solomon " at some point you need to realize the glaring incompleteness of the example of the man. Idolatry is a grievous sin. Who has not experienced or grown up in the midst of some forms of idolatry. Our own youth is a combination of fits and starts into various forms of idolatry. Repentance therefore must become a constant reality in our lives if we are to seek a righteous path and follow that path. We study the failures of others to learn the frailness of all men. " Search me , O God , and know my heart ! Try me and know my thoughts ! And see if there be any grievous way in me , and lead me in the way everlasting. " Psalm 139 : 23,24 . " You have heard that it was said , ' You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy ' " But I say to you. Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you , so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. " If Christ had not died for our sinful nature what hope would we have ? None. Zilch. Zero . We cannot keep the law. We never could. But where would we be without any awareness of the law at all. The law, our teacher instructs us. Jesus kept the law. All of it in its original form. We must proclaim our allegiance to Him. To Him alone. We have the completed text and the promises Jesus gave to us. We have the instruction. That is what we seek to live out on the path that He instructs us to keep to, the path that He says that we should follow.
apatzer 30-Apr-20, 08:27	Mr Paul, A truly beautiful post. Spot on. Thank you for sharing this wisdom with us. Luke 9 Take Up Your Cross and Follow Jesus 23And he said to all, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. 24For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will save it. 25For what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses or forfeits himself? 26For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words, of him will the Son of Man be ashamed when he comes in his glory and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels. 27But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God. -------------------- The Bible has such deep meaning, it speaks to those who seek him and have their thoughts upon him. My understanding is not the only understanding, nor is it in reality understanding at all, for who can fathom the Lord? His ways are not our ways and his thoughts are not our thoughts. Yet if we strive to be obedient and follow his instructions. The longer we do this the better our thoughts move in the direction of the Lord . So we can only give testimony to what certain verses mean to us. Because the Bible is also very personal. It is all things What the above verse means to me. "come after me and take up your cross daily. Is the emulation of Jesus Daily. A conscious decision that has to be made on a daily basis because us humans are weak all of us are. In so we die to the ways, traditions and standards and expectations of the world. If we seek to save that worldly life and fit in. Or aquiere power, wealth, and follow the ways of the world to do this. Then we truly don't have and are not living the life that is promised. A life free from sin, free from fear and free from death. This is why there is a narrow path and gate, very few decide to emulate Jesus on a daily basis. Some think the narrow path and gate verse is about being saved. I won't proclaim differently, for who am I? No one. However he did say and only a few find it. That is a tiny number. A few. I believe that only a few people actually try to emulate Jesus. I know that I desire to emulate Jesus. But I am so hot and miss, mostly miss. And am far from doing that on even a monthly basis. I need to redouble my efforts. I do know that in the time that I did put forth the effort. I was at peace, and in wonderment of the Father. My words are so inadequate to explain this.
servantmk1042 30-Apr-20, 09:35	I like your passion for the Scriptures. In failure and in needing God's grace myself I learned what grace is. In failing over and over again I learned what repentance is. It is an attitude that often keeps me from going so far astray that I cannot see a way back. Sometimes I realize that the sins of the past are in my memory and an enemy is seeking to tell me that I still am not good enough to make it. But that is the point, isn't it. None of us are good enough to make it on our own strength. My Mom used to tell me " When Satan reminds you of where you have been, remind him of where he is going . " That statement scared me at first , because I did not understand him to be a defeated foe. But that is what we must remember. He is a defeated foe. That' s important !
apatzer 30-Apr-20, 10:12	Absolutely We fall many times when learning how to walk as toddlers. we are going to fail daily. Each failure can strengthen us once we cultivate the right attitude.
shirlmygirl 07-Jun-20, 12:07	The very sad thing about Bonhoeffer's fate is that he was executed shortly before the German Reich fell. I was thinking about that this morning, so got this information from Wikipedea to make sure I was correct. "hanged on 9 April 1945 as the Nazi regime was collapsing, 21 days before Adolf Hitler committed suicide."
apatzer 07-Jun-20, 12:59	Yes my dear friend Shirley, It is very sad. Today Society is using us all of us to make money. They feed our fears, cater to our bias, tell us what we want to hear. Divide us by creating an "Other" that is out to destroy us or our country. They stoke division with slogans, and movie quotes. But we are not to be like them. and those tactics are not meant to work on us. Hold fast to the teachings of God my friends. Pray that in this world of constant manipulation and deceit " For profit" that we be shown God's truth, and walk by Gods instructions and direction.
shirlmygirl 07-Jun-20, 13:21	What is the old saying, Robert? Something like this. "Believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear". Verification is the key.
apatzer 07-Jun-20, 15:54	Shirley Absolutely, however some people use other forms of verification, other than the Bible. And are decived into a transactional relationship, and justify evil because of it. Imagine, when Jesus Christ started his ministry, he went out to be tempted. Luke 4 Jesus Is Tested in the Wilderness 1Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, left the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, 2where for forty days he was tempted a by the devil. He ate nothing during those days, and at the end of them he was hungry. 3The devil said to him, “If you are the Son of God, tell this stone to become bread.” 4Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone.’ b ” 5The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7If you worship me, it will all be yours.” 8Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’ c ” 9The devil led him to Jerusalem and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down from here. 10For it is written: “ ‘He will command his angels concerning you to guard you carefully; 11they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’ d ” 12Jesus answered, “It is said: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’ e ” 13When the devil had finished all this tempting, he left him until an opportune time. -------------------------------- Imagine how many people he could reach right away, having power over all of the kingdoms of the world? Especially when he wanted to teach the world and minister to the world. Yet he didn't compromise, the whole you do this and I do that,. And also noticed he was tempted with the word of God itself. Yet he knew the word and would not compromise. He is sinless, and obedient to the father in every way. And his sandles I am unworthy to stoop down and untie. And even though I am a sinner he layed down his life for me. Thefore Everything should be verified with God. And God alone. Even the word of God should be verified by the word of God. As Jesus did, when he said "it is also written, do not put the Lord your God to the test" Amen and amen
shirlmygirl 07-Jun-20, 16:05	Very good post, Robert.

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