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From	Message
neurokarma 13-Mar-20, 05:46	seoulman. I've never been able to beat him in 6 games either!!
riaannieman 14-Mar-20, 01:06	That is unbelievable! Congratulations to seoulman! I am speechless.
joveyboy1 20-Mar-20, 00:45	Message Received You know I had a member time out recently on several games. I messaged them and never got a reply. I waited a few days, but then decided to get them more games and see what happened. I noticed they're moving a bit faster, and so far no more issues. A couple years ago I had a member suddenly start timing out. I tried messaging them, but nothing. It got to the point where they were on the brink of being removed, which is very rare for me to get to that point, but the timeouts kept happening, I was just about left with no choice. I let them know it was their last chance, and suddenly, they sped up, and there's been no issues since. Never once did I get a reply. Sometimes sending the message doesn't get a reply, but it doesn't mean it wasn't received. I don't know why I don't always get a reply, but I'm satisfied if my message it received
pawntificator 20-Mar-20, 01:59	I just postponed my games. I just couldn't make up my mind on which move to make.
amacivn 20-Mar-20, 04:25	Joe , pretty much the same thing happens on our team , no response could be down to people playing on their mobile the tabs are pretty small and hard to see in daylight , plus some players do not want chat or message interaction period .... We tend to extend the move time if the timeouts stop and the individuals speed per move increases we trust our guys and accept faster matches The main thing is try not to get to " wound up " especially right now On that note I'd like to say to every single person who reads the forum STAY SAFE 😷 take care of yourselves and follow all your countries guidelines you are not alone
baddeeds 20-Mar-20, 07:44	I'm like opposite, but a lot of times, they have a valid reason, so I reinstate. And, I can relate to where this would happen, as sometimes, when a message is sent to me, it can take me days. It's not good when it's timeouts, but maybe, there also having issues with time management. And, it can be worse then timing outs. What if it's something like me, where they're even falling asleep on the job. So, now they monitor how much time they're on the computer because of blue ray lights. Afterall, I just got advise to turn it off, at least, 3 hours prior to going to bed. So, maybe, they've gotten in trouble and don't want to lose their job. Or it could be that they, suddenly, get busy with work or had a disaster and can't log on. With me, it was the blue lights, so as you might have noticed Joe, with one or two of your messages, it would take me, as long as, 3 days to answer. But, I'm glad that your able to resolve the issue with people timing out on team games. I changed it and don't just give someone a week to respond. Now, it's like how it originally was, and if they have a valid reason for losing a team game on time, I'll reinstate them.
baddeeds 07-Apr-20, 16:33	And, with timeouts, although I still remove right away, I've become more like Joe, in understanding what their reason is. And, if time management, especially enough sleep, if the only way was to cut back on games, even if it meant losing on time, I'd certainly reinstate them. As I can relate to that situation where I was in danger of losing my job for failing to manage my time properly. And, with that, I've become more linenet then I used to be. And, I no longer have a rule of them having to let me know, within a week. It's now, as long as, a valid reason is given.
baddeeds 05-May-20, 08:28	Update The reason that I enforced this policy about one timeout on a team game=removal is because other members voted on it, when Greg was still the captain. I can relate to why he did this since members kept timing out on team games. So, the former captain believed that people were taking advantage of it, and I can relate to where he'd feel that. The idea behind removing someone for losing team games on time was that they didn't play out the game. And, in doing so, they didn't do the work, and therefore, let the other members down. It, originally, came to a vote which the majority agreed on. But, the people that voted are no longer on this site, and one of the people who voted to remove someone for timeout, later, got booted for the same reason. I wasn't too happy about the policy, but I was ok with it. As I wanted to keep other members happy by making them feel like they're work is important. However, although I lost very little games on time, only 2 during my very first 2 games on this site, something similar happened with me. And, I, inadvertently, made a lot of strong, mainly titled players unhappy, to say the least. It was, without going into details, the negative accomplishment which I'd later post about on chess.com. And, what made them, and later me, upset was not doing the work, whereas, they really did. As such, weighing in how patient Susan is, I stopped being ok with the team policy that timeout=removal. I also realize that joveyboy1 feels the same way about amnesty, and I commend Joe for this. The reason being is that I now feel that removing someone for losing one team game on time is a double standard due to the reason they were removed. Therefore, it started upsetting me, yesterday. As I know that there are more reasons then just hospitalizations that I find valid. The only reasons I would not accept as valid, is if someone was still on, played other games, and forgot about the team since they could check back at how much times left. Or, if they were jailed since that would involve committing a crime. But, if, for example, someone like me was in danger of losing his or her job for failed time management, especially with something like sleep deprivation, and that caused a timeout on a team game, I'd be understanding. In fact, if I had removed someone, and he or she told me that this was a reason, even if others found fault with it, I'd absolutely, reinstate that said member, with what I went through. With that being said, I spoke to a member who went through this process, right before reinstatement. And, I spoke to the co-captain who was, temporarily, demoted for the same reason before repromoting, as per Pete's suggestion. And, we agree that leniency is the way to go. Therefore, unless I find out that Joe waits longer, my new policy is if, a member times on a game or a series of games, I will speak to him or her first about the timeout. I'll suspend them from team games, not as a penalty but a break to fix the issue. I'll also give let them know about that they lost a team or team games on time. They'll have a week to get to back to me. If after that long, I don't hear back, I'll give them a final warning and will give them another week to answer. If they still don't answer, then I will remove them. And, if that happens, there's still a chance that I'd readmit them back on my team for an extenuating circumstance.
baddeeds 05-May-20, 08:34	In addition, I don't think it'll happen, but if a different member complained. Or he or she asked about what happened with the zero tolerance policy for losing a team game on time, I would explain the same thing to that member. And, I'd probably even wind up showing this thread to him or her.
joveyboy1 07-May-20, 17:40	thewrongreason, I like what you've said, I think you have something really good going here   I kind of always forget this, but one reason I do my strategy on timeouts, and I'd say I have my wonderful parents to thank for this, is that I try to treat others the way I'd like to be treated. Easier said than done, but I try my best. In the case of timeouts, if I was a member completing games, and something came up and I timed out, I'd feel terrible on letting the team down, and I'd be sure to let the Captain know why it happened and apologize for it, I felt that way before I even started captaining. Now if I was removed for the single timeout without being able to explain, I'd probably be both angry and depressed over it, I'm not sure actually, but I'd be even more upset over it for sure. Obviously everyone is different, so I can't expect others to respond the way I do, but with how I do it, I give others chances when unforeseen circumstances come across them, and I have had many respond favorably, and managed to work things out. I think I like your strategy more than mine Joe. I message a player as soon as I can when they first time out, and in the message, I let them know that I hope all is well with them, and I also give Gameknot links to the max team games preference and the auto challenge decline rules, letting them know to change these to settings better for them if they think it will help. I also tell them to click 'Save' if they do...even I forget to sometimes   I do this because in my expectations, I don't actually expect a reply, I get that quite a bit actually, but if the timeouts stop, I have no reason to complain. I'd rather get a reply of course, but I think some are shy, or don't speak the strongest English, so I try to be understanding in that regard. If there are more timeouts, then I try to get a bit more stern, though being stern is a weak area for me, I need to get better there. I give too many chances, but not unlimited chances. If the timeouts continue, I will give an official warning or two after my initial message, and I'll give a clear final warning if that's not enough, and obviously, removal if all else fails to reach them. I haven't made it to the final step before, which I honestly find surprising. I've gotten as far as Final Warning, but fortunately I didn't have to go further. I hope I never have to really, but I need to be ready for it one of these days I'm sure. I like what you're going with Joe, I hope your team agrees with it too
riaannieman 07-May-20, 22:08	I agree with Joe. I'd rather give someone the benefit of the doubt. That is one reason why I contact my players individually from time to time, and when I note that they time out. I also have the telephone numbers of most of my players, and use it in emergencies- with their permission, of course. I don't make a nuisance of my self and I don't intrude into their privacy. I have a great and personal relationship with almost every single team member, and they don't hesitate to contact me any more. My only problem is that with my current workload (being a police officer) I can't get to monitor my players closely. I have appointed someone do do that for me, but that person is not online often. I am thinking of appointing another player as well to monitor time outs. I involve all the players on SWAT in various ways, giving them all certain responsibilities. The players are all involved in decisions like booting someone off the team, accepting a new member, and so on.
amacivn 29-May-20, 12:25	I think some teams try to use timeouts to their advantage , if you have a player who hits say 1255 then times out to 1105 they're not a 1105 player they are 1255 , you have to take into consideration the 90 days profile for a fair match Shirley is right you should match at the players pre time out rating , I realise everbody is protective of their players but trying to gain an advantage after a time out period isn't right You know who you are ..... even if your not a member of this club
mikemate 29-May-20, 12:32	We will rarely match a player that exceeds 8% timeouts. There are exceptions like they occurred some time ago. This information is in our notes to Captains.
amacivn 29-May-20, 12:42	I thought I was helping a team , on 90 days it was still in their favour , my first thought was the Captain had left his challenge preferences at + 50 by mistake .... but he hadn't... now I think we've dodged a bullet as his player is still timing out I'm guessing with what's going on around the world player time outs could rise , we've seen a few on our team and as much as possible have tried to use 5days but that can't be done all the time ..
shirlmygirl 29-May-20, 13:12	I am glad to see that Neil (amacivn) is up, active and healthy.
riaannieman 01-Jun-20, 01:43	I admit a player who time outs regularly to the opposition, and I usually set up challenges at the correct rating. However, I also usually wait until the ratings align again before I set up the player, so they may appear to be available but because of a recent string of time outs I don't use them. There are two reasons: the one mention above, and to test them myself to see if they are reliable again. If they continue to time out I boot them from the team.
amacivn 01-Jun-20, 09:10	Deleted by amacivn on 01-Jun-20, 10:42.
mikemate 01-Jun-20, 09:33	Deleted by mikemate on 01-Jun-20, 10:31.
amacivn 01-Jun-20, 10:01	Deleted by amacivn on 01-Jun-20, 10:41.
mikemate 01-Jun-20, 10:04	Deleted by mikemate on 01-Jun-20, 10:31.
amacivn 01-Jun-20, 10:08	Deleted by amacivn on 01-Jun-20, 10:41.
mikemate 01-Jun-20, 10:09	Deleted by mikemate on 01-Jun-20, 10:31.
mikemate 01-Jun-20, 10:10	Deleted by mikemate on 01-Jun-20, 10:31.
shirlmygirl 01-Jun-20, 11:34	Wow! What happened to this thread? All these deletions.
pawntificator 01-Jun-20, 11:49	Probably just a heated disagreement that they both finally agreed was silly.
shirlmygirl 01-Jun-20, 11:51	Neil was probably being cheeky, knowing him.
mikemate 01-Jun-20, 12:36	One could call it a misunderstanding due to a series of unrelated events. Hope that clears it up.
joveyboy1 18-Nov-20, 01:28	Messaging by Email You know I just had a thought...one I should have had a long time ago. If someone messages someone who has timed out, when you message them, do you check the box to also send the message to their email? I haven't used it at all lately, and I think that's in part because I always forget to check my email, so I probably subconsciously feel that there's little point in using that feature, but of course I'm sure many do check their emails often. I think more times than not I don't get a reply when I do send a message to someone who has timed out. I wonder if I'd get a higher response rate if I did start checking that box? I don't mind if my email address is revealed...my public one that is. I have two emails...for some reason lol Does anyone else use that feature? Just wondering. Regardless I think I will start using it and see what happens...when I can. I think I have a few players who's emails are listed as 'unreliable'
riaannieman 18-Nov-20, 02:51	No Joe, I contact most of Team SWAT by a texting platform like WhatsApp, Line or Telegram. Sometimes just a ordinary SMS. I don't use email a lot because I don't check my own email- as you also admit! Phone is much faster.
shirlmygirl 18-Nov-20, 08:54	When a person checks that little e-mail box under the message pad, it sends the same message of course, but a person cannot respond to the e-mail, and the e-mail does not disclose a person's e-mail address. One can only respond via GameKnot itself.
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