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From	Message
shirlmygirl 14-May-20, 09:06	If only Sam would realize that if he behaves himself we would leave him well alone.
shirlmygirl 14-May-20, 12:07	I see that Sam (The Crusaders) is up 60 points and he has just won against Kings of the Castle, so he had been playing Kings of the Castle previously. That match was started March 30th. So why the nastiness from him?
mikemate 14-May-20, 12:14	Now that is interesting. One of their players in that match is the player I requested in the failed match that caused the problem. Sam could have approved the match and beat us again.
shirlmygirl 14-May-20, 12:25	My mother used to say, when we were growing up, "serves you right", when we did something with consequences. So, serves Sam right, for these recent posts on this thread and this club.
amacivn 20-May-20, 11:01	I find it strange he includes Lucifers in his post , we may accept the odd open challenge, but I don't remember him accepting a challenge , I've stopped I have better things to do ... Like watching paint dry
lord_shiva 20-May-20, 12:10	Drying Paint Whenever I watch it, the paint crinkles and cracks. If I keep watching it flakes, smoulders, and begins to burn. I need to get my eyes checked.
amacivn 20-May-20, 12:19	I to find it very exciting .... Did somebody say ... stir crazy ... What do you call a chicken staring at a lettuce.. Chicken sees-a-salad I have issues ...
lord_shiva 20-May-20, 13:07	Without Anchovie Paste? People say all this Covid quarantine is driving them stir crazy, but I have found it utterly fascinating how one bag of rice will have 20,261 individual grains, whereas another will have only 19,875 grains.
shirlmygirl 20-May-20, 15:38	You certainly do have issues, Neil, and it seems that lord_shiva does too.
amacivn 20-May-20, 16:15	My ( not so ) smart challenge My new project is to cut every piece of grass on my lawn...... with a pair of 3 inch scissors and a steel rule I'm trying for the optimum height of 1.2 inches or 30mm , the height of a soccer pitch , I haven't the patience or the arrogance to go for the golf putting green I estimate this will take me the rest of my natural life to finish ....
shirlmygirl 22-May-20, 19:38	You certainly have diverted attention from Sam, Neil. I'm sure Sam will be most grateful.
rooklahoma 23-May-20, 13:05	Civil War After the end of the Civil War, many confederates were obliged to sign an "oath of allegiance" in order to restore their full rights and get back in good graces with the Union. Please consider this my GK version of such an oath. My reasons for joining smart challenge were a lot like what bevo_xv posted near the start of this thread. We were invited, it seemed innocuous, and many other good teams had signed on. I was unaware of old frictions between Sam and other captains. Smart Challenge (SC) seemed little used, not really practical, and took up a lot of team page space, so I dropped it from our page some time ago. It had no bearing on who we issued challenges to, or accepted challenges from. If other SC teams preferred to challenge us before teams not on the list, that was fine. It still mattered that the challenge was fair. Sam does not speak for our team just because we signed on to SC 2/3 years ago. Our team rank, low or high, has more to do with my personal skill or incompetence than with SC. I hope all teams know we will still accept fair challenges from anyone, and will only try to issue fair challenges, again, to any team. We are all just a dwindling bunch of chess teams, so lets not take it too serious or hold grudges. Now, like the confederate veterans of old, I would just like to put this behind us.
shirlmygirl 25-May-20, 13:56	Sam provoked conflict because of his insulting and derogatory language toward captains and players on GameKnot and not because he instituted Smart Challenge. He also insulted this club on his team page, which included every person in the club. That post has been deleted. I think that most teams pair like your team does, rooklahoma, and are/were unaware of the conflict.
rooklahoma 25-May-20, 15:38	Thank you Shirley, and I agree. I just didn't want teams associated with SC still taking heat because of Sam's insulting posts. I understand how anyone would feel who has been insulted by him, and he is fair game for criticism for that behavior.
shirlmygirl 25-May-20, 15:45	Sam can redeem himself by changing his unpleasant behavior.
bearz2 12-Jun-20, 04:22	Smart Challenge.. I started something similar with Triton...we took over dead teams...i had fantastic co captains that would look after Triton and i would set up the new teams that were then called sister teams. Deal was that they got first choice on games and off memory we had 10 teams all up. These teams and some are still around were handed to the co captains as a reward ...my choice and they were the best co captains i could ever have had.and now Joe has Triton and i've given him a hard time over the past..as i still love Triton and the rest of those teams...but Smart Challenge is a piggy back from Triton....that's my opinion.
11relmurmot 13-Jun-20, 21:15	Civil War Patrick,..I wondered about the SC when I became captain of our team. I had decided to pay little or no attention to it , and continue as you would . Now that you are back , our team will continue to grow, and reach for the top . I can also attest to the value of good co-captains to the good of a team. Bear2 , good idea on your part ! ' dead ' teams most likely have members that just want to play , and be part of a team.
rooklahoma 14-Jun-20, 00:39	Helping the faltering teams Thanks Tom and some good points! I have been watching as our number of teams have shrunk, and I am worried by how many of the remaining 175 teams or so are dormant or nearly so. I applaud you bearz2 for trying to find a way to bring some of those teams back to a competitive mode. Like Tom said, you know those teams have members that would enjoy some good team games again.
scutzer 24-Jun-20, 13:39	Not a "smart challenge" Look at this player... really... is this cheating or what? aimglobal So "be smart" and don't accept challenges with this player or maybe from this team as they are obviously using this person knowing they are probably at 2200+ player at least. My co-captain already got sucker punched by this person. We are way too trusting that captains play ethically as what's the point of winning if it's through this method. I mean I could create another account and win a bunch, over and over again... repeat... is this fun? Steve
shirlmygirl 24-Jun-20, 14:10	I would hazard a guess that aimglobal is not cheating. Mikemate has a very good indicator of such a player and that is number of moves per game and that number is 25. I see this player's average is 24. I would not pair this player until he started to lose because it would be bad for my team. But I cannot blame the captain of the team he plays on behalf of for grabbing him up. Myself, I wouldn't be in a hurry to grab him. With regard to starting a new account at 1200, I agree, and I know it happens. It is "Catch me if you can". Average moves per game: 24
scutzer 24-Jun-20, 14:34	@shirlmygirl We'll see how long he goes without a loss, with no disrespect to the rule of 25, this player is either a very highly ranked player or cheating. In either case, if you know that you shouldn't be playing them in team games until they are close to their real rating. That's ethical in my book... I can't say I haven't had people join my team that win quite a few at first, but I don't remember anyone that has jumped more than 200 points from the initial rating. Also, if you look at a person's points per game played that a good indicator of rating manipulation. Statistically, you can only win so many points per game unless you use non-team games to dumb your rating down, then load on team games again, and repeat. This is done by many, too many, players w/without the knowledge of their captains. My 2 cents, Steve
shirlmygirl 24-Jun-20, 14:40	Your 2 cents are well taken, Steve.   I do think he is a chess master.
mikemate 24-Jun-20, 15:36	Agree, very strong 2200+. We have an undefeated player that I suspect is underrated. I'm pretty sure I have declined a match with this player. I will almost always decline an undefeated player with the note "we will wait until there are losses", like Shirley said. Steve, your team got paired twice against aimglobal. My belief is it is up to the Captains/co-Captains to decline such players. Often a Captain does not know the strength of a new player.
sad_but_true 24-Jun-20, 20:07	I dont pair up guys like that at all, whether cheating or not, he has no history and To much of an unknown. As for the captain he would have known after half those games that this guy was a gun and to keep pairing up on his rating at the time was him taking advantage. I wonder if he would have paired him up against someone 400 higher? i dare say not
scutzer 25-Jun-20, 05:15	All good points Thanks for the responses, I've coached my co-captain on declining these, and I'm sure we won't do that again   Also, the captain of that team said he agreed with some of my points, but also indicated he wasn't sure if the player was at his top level yet?!?! So this is where I question his judgement to not have him play some non team games against 2300+ players to show his relative strength. That being said, the only real way to make this happen is if they start getting declines for any matches from all teams and we definitely didn't do our part. That's on us. Hopefully never again   Steve
amacivn 25-Jun-20, 08:41	I wish scutzer would take his wild accusations of cheating down , his advice not to match with this team or any team is irrational and disrespectful Why should teams decline against The Force ? Riccardo is one of the better Captains out there , have you thought of suggesting a match ? Why do you insult him ? Or let's start pushing players out of Teams by declining matches and we can all become inactive ... and talk about the good old days... I think you'll find GK have a criteria for spotting cheaters S_B_T 400 pts ???? have you been drinking ? ... got a pint for a mate ?
scutzer 25-Jun-20, 12:12	@amacivn I didn't insult the captain and I took responsibility for my part in the mismatch by my co-captain not being careful in accepting the match-up. So I insulted myself as much as I did him. I admitted we were not smart in accepting the offer. I simply said that if it was known this person was way under their real rating the offer shouldn't have been made in the first place. Even mikemate all but said, but nicely, you were the idiots that accepted the challenge... twice...  , but you didn't see my get offended by that. I would hope that if I had a player that was undefeated and rising from 1200-2000 is a short period that someone would let me know so I could stop pairing them for a while. If they did I wouldn't consider it an insult. The captain of the other team didn't take it that way based on his response. Just didn't appear he would wait to pair them is the only questionable response I received. Lastly, and hopefully this ends this thread, I bear no ill will toward that team or their captain. Steve
amacivn 25-Jun-20, 13:01	You never insulted the Captain look at your posts "be smart" and don't accept challenges with this player or maybe from this team as they are obviously using this person knowing they are probably at 2200+ player at least. " Your right just go easy with the compliments.... Of course if you meant no offence you'd take your accusation down You know the one were you accused a player of cheating with no evidence .. instead of blaming your co Captain the oppositions Captain your dog the kids your neighbours the mail man and your favourite auntie
shirlmygirl 25-Jun-20, 13:21	Neil (amacivn) gets himself in trouble because he insists on expressing what is on his mind instead of using some diplomacy. However, he is my good friend and I love him. Take it easy, Neil - PLEASE.
scutzer 25-Jun-20, 14:09	Pulling my posts Sorry mate, that's not going to happen. I was asking the question whether they were cheating, read the first post. I'll just report to player to GK and let them determine if they are manipulating their rating and/or cheating. They can decide. I only posted here to get some objective views. All the other captains were able to respond this way except you. This will be the last time I post in the forum. I'll just let GK figure it out for me. Thanks for making it easy for me not to participate in the forums. I'm sure the other captain will appreciate your posts since it may get his player removed from GK. Goodbye all, Steve
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