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From	Message
classica 01-Sep-20, 03:11	Petition opposing mandatory forced vaccinations lifepetitions.com
shirlmygirl 01-Sep-20, 08:08	Classica, I know that when there is a vaccine available for the Corona virus I am going to get one. I didn't have a flu vaccine for many, many years. I didn't want to. Then I starting to think, "do I want to get flu when I am old (which I am now) when flu kills so many people". So I started getting vaccinated for flu many years ago, and now I get one every year, and don't really notice any bad effects from the newest strains they put in it. I rarely get sick, and I don't want to get the Corona virus. I don't think I could manage that disease at my age and condition, even though my general health is very good. I intend to get my flu vaccination soon, so that when the Corona virus vaccine is available, I won't have the two vaccines too closely together. If there had been a Polio vaccine when I got Polio at 2 years of age, I wouldn't be in a condition that I am now, which is worn out joints and lack of certain muscles from so many years not being able to function properly.
classica 01-Sep-20, 10:00	I think it is important to have a choice whether to take a vaccine or not. There is much information available online, pro and con. It is essential that the decision to take the vaccine, or any medicine or medical procedure, be made by the individual - not by the government.
shirlmygirl 01-Sep-20, 10:03	I absolutely agree, Classica. Unfortunately, when a parent decides not to vaccinate his or her child, that child is very often banned from attending public school. It is a decision that only a parent(s) or guardian can make. Private schools will probably take such a child, but that can be expensive.
shirlmygirl 01-Sep-20, 10:07	I remember when Doug Batchelor, my very favorite pastor (online) said he was sent to summer camp and he immediately came down with chicken pox. He had to be isolated at that camp, while he watched all the other kids at the camp have fun.
classica 01-Sep-20, 10:32	Today the CDC guidelines for vaccines are what many consider excessive. A friend at work will not let his children be vaccinated, and he has opted for home-schooling. I think he is probably way ahead of the curve on his children's education - with the pandemic.
shirlmygirl 01-Sep-20, 10:40	Children who are home schooled can achieve an excellent standard of education. Some parents in my denomination do just that. Those children usually go to higher education later on. My own education was sorely lacking, but that was because I was an unhappy, crippled child. I was able to attend, at Government expense (England), a secretarial training when I was 18 years old. I excelled at that.
mikemate 01-Sep-20, 11:21	I taught chess at three different home school groups. Groups is the key as not many parents can effectively teach multiple subjects. As part of a home school group parents can share teaching small groups, 6-16 students. Socialization is also a plus.
shirlmygirl 01-Sep-20, 11:25	Good advice, Mike.
lord_shiva 01-Sep-20, 12:36	Vaccines are a godsend. They have saved the lives of untold millions, while preventing others from myriad issues. The polio epidemic of 1950 was also known as "the summer without children." 3000 died in 1952, with thousands more paralyzed, and that was simply a typical year. US population was 152 million in 1950. 3000 a year, growing to 6000 a year by 2020... Over 300,000 dead children and millions paralyzed. The polio vaccine is totally awesome, and responsible for ALL of that being nothing but a faded nightmare.
lord_shiva 01-Sep-20, 12:37	A Friend at Work is intellectually impaired, and his ignorance represents a dire threat to the health of his children.
shirlmygirl 01-Sep-20, 13:03	I got polio in 1940. I understand that there was an epidemic in America at the same time. I don't know which way the polio crossed the Atlantic ocean, whether we got it from America or America got it from England, but I do know that it is a water born disease.
lord_shiva 01-Sep-20, 16:03	Quote: Here is a very appropriate statement by Dr. Fauci on hydroxychloroquine twitter.com I happen to know studies with a smaller cohort in Norway last spring and a larger study by a colleague of mine here, both of which definitely show that HCQ is ineffective against covid-19, at any stage of the disease! Stalhandske The key takeaway here, Classica, is that HCQ is ineffective against Covid-19 at any stage of the disease. Either as a prophylactic (against infection--the way it is used against malaria) or in early stage treatment. The only genuine positive news is that it does NOT result in the harm (increased death) in late stage treatment we had initially thought. The one study that indicated that was flawed. It simply doesn't do anything one way or the other. www.cnbc.com
lord_shiva 02-Sep-20, 07:47	Breakthrough While HCQ has proven to be a bust, we finally have a bit of good news. Cheap and wildly available steroids have shown to be effective in reducing mortality in late stage infections. I would post a link but have trouble doing that on this device.
classica 02-Sep-20, 10:25	HCQ has been proven by numerous studies - I have posted and reposted recently - to be highly effective against Corona virus. Dr Fauci's own 2005 study confirms this. We also discussed the possible profit motive explaining Fauci's about-face on HCQ. To take one person's word to be the absolute truth is short-sighted. On new news - The NY Times published an article saying there is debate going on about the sensitivity of the COV testing, and that there may be many less active cases. www.nytimes.com They say current testing is so sensitive that many people test positive that have only a benign trace in their system. It has been compared to finding a hair in a room, long after the person has left.
lord_shiva 02-Sep-20, 13:16	One Person's Word? <<HCQ has been proven by numerous studies - I have posted and reposted recently - to be highly effective against Corona virus. Dr Fauci's own 2005 study confirms this.>> First off, Covid-19 was discovered in 2019, not in 2005. (Hence the name). So no study on the effectiveness of HCQ against Covid-19 could have been possible 14 years prior to the discovery of the virus. Second, it isn't simply Dr. Fauci. Dr. Fauci relates the results of NUMEROUS studies (which he himself has not conducted nor participated in) regarding the lack of effectiveness of HCQ (the proceeds of which would flow to Pakistani corporations with close ties to Groper's administration). We understand Groper would profit, and has already, from sales of HCQ. So he has had tremendous incentive to promote this sham cure. [After a lengthy discussion of the many problems fraught with the "trial" study showing effectiveness of HCQ], "the advocacy and widespread use of hydroxychloroquine seem to reflect a reasonable fear of SARS-CoV-2 infection. However, it would appear that to some extent the media and social forces — rather than medical evidence — are driving clinical decisions and the global Covid-19 research agenda." www.nejm.org Numerous researchers HOPING for effective treatment were disappointed at any lack of positive result in this study: www.statnews.com "The study, a randomized controlled trial led by researchers at the University of Minnesota, adds to the evidence that the malaria drug, heralded as a treatment based on scant data early in the pandemic, has little utility in treating Covid-19." "Recent studies reported that CQ and HCQ could also inhibit SARS-CoV-2 in vitro9,10, suggesting that they are potentially applicable to COVID-19 patients. However, there is to date no convincing report of the in vivo anti-viral effects of HCQ/CQ." www.nature.com This is the prestigious journal "Nature," not the bogus garbage site "Natural News," or the automobile health site "Henry Ford," or any conspiracy minded Russian troll site. If it is published in Nature it has been vetted six ways from Sunday. If a lot of people have tested positive with only trace infections, this would drive down the CFR (Case Fatality Rate), which indeed has been occurring. I think it is hovering around 4% now. 6 million cases, 184,000 deaths. CFR = 3%. Wow, even lower than I had thought. This contrasts with the seasonal flu average CFR of 0.02%. So 3/.02 = 150 times as lethal. Others say the flu CFR is higher than 0.02%. Still, it is nowhere close to 3%. Again, I wish HCQ DID work against Covid-19, whether Trump and his criminal enterprise grew insanely rich off the treatment or not. Dr. Fauci is simply the bearer of bad news, but at least he is honest, unlike our president.
classica 04-Sep-20, 06:34	Lord_Shiva, we are obviously beating a dead horse on the HCQ matter. I have already posted study after study supporting my claim that HCQ is a viable treatment protocol with other supplemental protocols. Please refer to previous posts and reposts of mine. We can agree to disagree. On the counting front, this is a follow-up video discussing the NY Times article [above] about false positives on the testing. www.youtube.com It appears the test is overly sensitive, as the process for it cycles the samples 40 times to detect the virus. This means the sample is given a growth rate of 2^40 or a little over one trillion times. The typical tests are cycled 25 to 30 times. With this extreme amount of sensitivity, false positives are inevitable. This both inflates the case rate and the death toll.
lord_shiva 04-Sep-20, 06:49	Death Toll? If you inflate the case rate you DEFLATE the death toll. No one dies from a false positive test.
lord_shiva 04-Sep-20, 07:27	Links You cite a petition site against vaccination. New York Times (a decent source) questioning test sensitivity. Britannica (good source) on Semmelweis (wash your hands). A YouTube on propaganda (?) Scitechdaily (good source) on T cells. WebMD (good source) concurring a symptomatic carriers still suffer permanent infection damage. And The New American (TNA), a right wing opinion piece by one unsupported doctor who insists quack remedies are not pursued more vigorously. Oh, The Hindu, insisting the president of Brazil annecdotally credits his safe recovery to HCQ. Louie "Gomer" Gohmert credits HCQ too, but then that idiot also blamed his infection on his mask in the first place. Detroit Free Press, another anecdote of HCQ. These are not scientific studies. An actual study initially showed harm from HCQ, but better science revealed flaws in that study. Properly administered, HCQ was not increasing death tolls. On the other hand, subsequent multiple independent studies show no benefit from Groper's miracle cure either. If you can't beat distilled water (the homeopathic placebo), you haven't got anything.
classica 04-Sep-20, 09:14	"If you inflate the case rate you DEFLATE the death toll. No one dies from a false positive test." In many places, it is cited that the CDC published statistics showing that less than 50% of the COVID-19 deaths were due to the virus alone. In many cases, if you died from other reasons, but were tested positive for COV, you were counted as a COV death. This inflated the death toll. You left out over a half of my references on HCQ. Talk about beating a dead horse... 🧐
lord_shiva 04-Sep-20, 11:04	Death Toll Our CFR is lower than many other nations. They are all cheating too? An international effort to make Trump look bad?
classica 05-Sep-20, 09:39	New HCQ info “If they put everybody on hydroxychloroquine it would stop COVID-19 in its tracks in 30 days,” she [Dr Stella Immanuel] said in the video recorded at a news conference. So, they tried to take away her medical license. "In the letter, the Board indicated that the investigation was dismissed because there was insufficient evidence to prove that she violated Medical Practices Act. “As such, this complaint has been dismissed without prejudice. No further action will be taken concerning this complaint,” the Board said in the letter. Therefore, we can conclude based on the opinion of the Texas Medical Board that HCQ is not an invalid and dangerous medical protocol when administered by licensed medical doctors. www.pmnewsnigeria.com
urbanascott 05-Sep-20, 20:40	I can't believe Classica is still beating the HCQ Horse! I just found this thread; I didn't realize there was a 3rd and 4th thread on this topic. I am shocked that Classica is still advocating for HCQ. It has been debunked by every CREDIBLE medical professional. Citing Dr. Stella Immanuel as any type of medical authority is a HUGE reach. She is a certified whacko. Below is a section from an article about her written by the BBC (and no, the BBC is not fake news!--It seems like every source that disagrees with Trump is "fake news" in the minds of his supporters): Five years ago, she alleged that alien DNA was being used in medical treatments, and that scientists were cooking up a vaccine to prevent people from being religious. Some of her other claims include blaming medical conditions on witches and demons - a common enough belief among some evangelical Christians - though she says they have sex with people in a dream world. "They turn into a woman and then they sleep with the man and collect his sperm… then they turn into the man and they sleep with a man and deposit the sperm and reproduce more of themselves," she said during a sermon in 2013. Another issue that Dr Immanuel targets is gay marriage, saying it can result in adults marrying children, according to the Daily Beast. She also offers a prayer to remove a generational curse, originally received from an ancestor, but transmitted through placenta, the news website's profile of her says. So, if you think a person who believes alien DNA is being used in medicine, that witches and demons are responsible for certain medical conditions, then this is the doctor for you. Load up on that HCQ. According to the data it can kill you, but whatever. Folks, it is time to move to a real topic and not the fallacy that HCQ is at all effective for Covid-19. I think it has been discussed to death here. When people are citing sources that believe in aliens and witches it is time to change the topic. Just my opinion after browsing through this thread.
classica 05-Sep-20, 20:55	Everyone is entitled to their own religious beliefs and should not be shamed for having them. Shaming is a form of mind control. If you like I can drag out all of my preciously stated references. HCQ is being recognized as a viable part of COV treatment by many doctors.
lord_shiva 05-Sep-20, 23:17	If You Suffer From Astral Demon Sex ask your doctor if Covfefe is right for you. If you are haunted by alien DNA infection, try injecting HCQ directly into your lungs. "It really does a tremendous number on the lungs."
urbanascott 06-Sep-20, 09:54	"...try injecting HCQ directly into your lungs..." I believe the carnival barker wearing the orange make-up stated that bleach would thoroughly cleanse the lung. Do you inject the HCQ into the lungs first to loosen things up, and then the bleach to thoroughly wash everything out? And then follow care is done with alien DNA? BTW, was the SS HCQ the first of four boats to sink in the Trump Boat Parade in TX? (You must watch thew video if you haven't seen it. I couldn't stop laughing for 20 minutes.
shirlmygirl 06-Sep-20, 10:08	CLASSICA Sorry, Classica. I can't defend you even though I would like to, because I just don't know about HCQ, although I think it is quite possible it is helpful in early cases combined with other medications. Serious cases are too late, it won't help at all. Only time will tell if HCQ will help at first.
shirlmygirl 06-Sep-20, 10:11	I think that when people place such disrespectful posts on this Club, it is a good insight into their true personality and character.
classica 06-Sep-20, 10:30	"Another issue that Dr Immanuel targets is gay marriage, saying it can result in adults marrying children, according to the Daily Beast." California is attempting to change the pedophilia laws, citing LGBT concerns. and other news.... www.youtube.com
classica 06-Sep-20, 10:54	Just to stir the pot, just a bit more: Freedom Rally, Trafalgar Sq, London, Aug 29 davidicke.com The video is banned on YouTube. What are they trying to hide?
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