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lord_shiva 17-Feb-18, 07:26	If I is Smarter than 57% of 23&me, and I make no such claim, maybe it would be because the Neandertal had greater brain capacity. On the other hand, you have different fingers. Neandertal midden bone assemblages reveal much dietary diversity than contemporaneous Sapien garbage pits. This is used to indicate Sapiens enjoyed an intellectual edge over the healthier, more robust but hidebound Neandertal.
lord_shiva 17-Feb-18, 07:28	Dang "Neandertal midden bone assemblages reveal much LESS dietary diversity than contemporaneous Sapien garbage pits."
apatzer 17-Feb-18, 09:54	LS Genetics are not a smoking gun, We share a 99% likeness with all life on this planet through DNA. is there a fossil record that directly links us that is paired with DNA. That is 100% or 99% certain? yes or no? My premise is that we were engineered, kept in a controlled environment and introduced to species in that controlled environment. If you engineer a species you will use existing genetics and modify them. There are parts of our DNA that do not belong there according to www.livescience.com. Also it does state in the Bible that there were other humans during that time. This has long confused people who read the Bible. If Adam and Eve were the first how could there be other humans? simple they were the first of our kind.
inhis_service 17-Feb-18, 10:12	Vacuums are bad . . . << This is not an us vs you situation. I am sorry that you may have felt that way. >> Okay, let see if this may make my apparent “us vs you situation” a little clearer. Information, knowledge and our understanding of our world (read science) does not exist in a moral vacuum. “smoking gun or not” most evolutionists believe that our biological world is the result of random processes over eons and eons of time. That there was no “outside agent” (read God) involved in this. That being so, there also, is no impetus for, or criteria for determining how to gauge moral behavior. Philosophy and “common good” and “mutual respect” and other such notions are used by many for their own innate peace of mind as well as for determining how to interact with others. However, there are some who take this “randomness” and “happenstance” for understanding our world and they take it a little further along. They say if there isn't any “absolutes” to determine their behavior and they are free to do as they please, even if that means harming others These kind of people are usually called “psychotic” aren't they? Whatever they're called they are dangerous and need to be kept under lock and key for the protection and safety of others. Unfortunately, keeping them in a safe place sometimes comes too late. Case in point – that recent school shooting in Florida. This whole recent dangerous social phenomena is a result of removing the morals compass which used to be in place in our schools and we have replaced it with what? Nothing. That's what. And look at the result. This “war” I'm waging is in response to the irresponsible mindset which continues to deny the importance of solid Biblical morals. Especially, for our children. Information and knowledge taught without these is dangerous.
lord_shiva 17-Feb-18, 16:13	Harming Others I don't know. Back when religion ruled the world those who abandoned faith were labeled apostate and burned to death, as were those who were of differing faith, as heretics. Women often ended up burned or hung for witchcraft, while the inquisition invented all manner of clever devices of torture for extracting confessions. Religious leaders like Bush, Cheney, and Groper promote torture of infidels to this day. Maybe not Bush so much, but Cheney was a big fan, and Holy Groper thinks Cheney was a pansy, and called for the murder of the families of torture victims. <<Information, knowledge and our understanding of our world (read science) does not exist in a moral vacuum. “smoking gun or not” most evolutionists believe that our biological world is the result of random processes over eons and eons of time. That there was no “outside agent” (read God) involved in this. That being so, there also, is no impetus for, or criteria for determining how to gauge moral behavior. Philosophy and “common good” and “mutual respect” and other such notions are used by many for their own innate peace of mind as well as for determining how to interact with others.>> Sure we have evolved a perfectly decent moral gauge. Why is it Xtians outnumber atheists ten to one in prison? What moral code allows evangelicals to throw their whole hearted support behind a serial adulterer like Groper who fosters greed, racism, bigotry, torture--all the very best human vices?
inhis_service 17-Feb-18, 16:45	<< I don't know. Back when religion ruled the world those who abandoned faith were labeled apostate and burned to death >> You are bringing up extreme excesses of power which Christians immigrated to America to escape. Again, you purposely misrepresent the facts! The Christian heritage which was established in America taught as a matter of course, a morality which guided our Government and nation for over two hundred years. That has been replaced by the secular humanists who were behind the social engineering which led to outlawing prayer and Bible reading, leaving the moral vacuum now in place.
inhis_service 17-Feb-18, 18:08	<< Sure we have evolved a perfectly decent moral gauge. Why is it Xtians outnumber atheists ten to one in prison? >> Sure, replacing the Bible and prayer from the schools mean these little infidels go out into society w/o a moral compass. They run afowl of the law, go to prison and find Jesus Christ there. They used to be introduced to Him in school..
lord_shiva 17-Feb-18, 23:55	Secular Humanists founded this nation, erected with a wall of separation between church and state.
lord_shiva 18-Feb-18, 04:34	Secular Humanists I should have said "deists.". Secular state deists.
apatzer 18-Feb-18, 05:00	the wall And the reason they put that wall there was to prevent abuse of power that is so common when a human being is elevated to a position of power. That way the church could ( have a chance) to exisist as intended. however people still abuse power. it is a human problem. it is a human flaw. What has been done in the name of God in the past and still to this day is UNEXCUSABLE. For those that abuse power and position are not acting according to their faith. they are acting according to this world and their own desires . As man has always done. And make no mistake they as we all will, will give an account. But that account is their personal account. Just as ours is ours. I once was inspired to ask God "What is Love" This was before I knew Christ, back when I thought he was just a good man. The answer I got frustrated me. Here is what I was told... "Love is realizing that there is truly only one of us here" I thought that is a ridiculous answer. So I let some time pass... Months , So I asked again... I got the same answer... but a little louder. I still did not accept the answer I was given. So I dropped it for a long while... years. So I was then reading the Bible and before I opened it I thought of that question, so I prayed rather than talked to. and asked the same question again. I got the same answer again, dismissed it again. When i opened the Bible and started reading it was at Matthew 25:31-46 I tell you the truth what ever you did for the least of these, you did for me...... and what ever you did not do for the least of these you did not do for me. for lord lord when have we ever seen you in prison? Or hungry. or a stranger... Do unto other as you would have done unto you... love your neighbor as yourself... over and over it is the same message... and I was amazed and thought. man I am hard headed and stupid that it took many years for this to sink into my thick skull!
inhis_service 18-Feb-18, 06:19	Wall an illusion/ a LIE to deceive! Christians know what abuse of power is so they wrote this. . . Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; In case you do not recognize this it is the First Amendment to the United States constitution! Those globalists now running the Government, THEY are the ones ABUSING THE POWER! They have pushed( nearly silenced) the Christian voices altogether! Who legalized the murder of babies while yet in the womb, and legalized the travesty of gay marriage? Complete insanity. It were not the Christian voices. We're being told to SHUT UP!
lord_shiva 19-Feb-18, 11:43	<<You are bringing up extreme excesses of power which Christians immigrated to America to escape. Again, you purposely misrepresent the facts!>> Salem where? Salem Europe? Witches be hanged in Salem England, may hap? Ours is a secular government, and always has been, for very good reason. Theocracy sucks. In addition, abortion started out nice and legal. It was outlawed in the early 1900s because the practice cut into the profits of ObGyns. On gay marriage the church remains just as wrong as it used to be on miscegenation. Loving vs. Virginia? The church enacted that hateful law, justifying it on the grounds God created the races separate. God apparently had nothing to say on masters raping and mutilating their slaves, however.
inhis_service 19-Feb-18, 12:38	Lord_shiva. . . More examples of Biblical misapplication due to misguided men trying to wield power for personal agendas! The bottom line here, unless "religion" is driven by the love of God, and guided by the Holy Spirit, people will be taken advantage of, or worse. Christians, whose only desire is to bring glory to God, have ALWAYS improved the lives of those they touched. On the other hand, where our influence is outlawed, and men are left to their own devices, the results (again), are ALWAYS negative.
lord_shiva 20-Feb-18, 07:39	Very Proud Comrade Groper Christianly lowered taxes on booze manufacturers. But let us speak of smoking guns. I mentioned GULO earlier. Know why this gene is a smoking gun for common ancestry between our species and old world primates?
apatzer 20-Feb-18, 08:15	GULO activity has been lost in some species of bats, that means they use to have it. It is a way to convert GULO produces the precursor to ascorbic acid, which spontaneously converts to the vitamin ("vitamin C"). Something that most living organisms need! That is like saying since a primate has the gene that makes eyes brown. that is a smoking gun? I dont think so
lord_shiva 20-Feb-18, 08:30	Fruit Bats Host a broken GULO gene. Their diet too, like that of African primates, is rich in ascorbic acid so loss of the gene does not pose a problem. It is broken in a different way in guinea pigs. Or hamsters--I forget which. But it is broken the same way in old world primates as it is in humans. Same defect. Pure coincidence? If I were creator and did not want humans to imagine evolution was real, I would not have created ANY other primates. These creatures, with their all too human like behaviors, are enormously compelling evidence of our kinship to other species. Consider Neanderal and Denisovans. Every "missing link" creates two new gaps. Despite smoothing transitions between our species and more ancient hominid populations.
lord_shiva 20-Feb-18, 08:45	Designing Common Defects Almost all animals, including fish, have a functional GULO gene. It is broken one way in fruit bats, and a different way in guinea pigs. en.m.wikipedia.org
apatzer 20-Feb-18, 08:47	Perhaps it is a common adaptation between similar species? Dolphins share many of our emotional and social practices. being similar is not enough evidence for me. The Bible does state and also indirectly that there were other humanoids on earth during that time. There is a method of creation for all the animals and plants and evolution is part of that process. However if you take genetics from already existing species and mold it to your will. in order to produce another species with traits you have programmed in them for a purpose. Can it not be said that you created that species? Especially if you had created everything else also!? Now man can not say we created a new species's because we are using what has already been made! I>E> get your own sand. Let us create man in our likeness and image. Evolution is not at odds with the Bible, nor is it prof that the Bible is false. We all just have a lack of understanding. ( on both sides)
lord_shiva 20-Feb-18, 09:03	Rhesus Factor is also pretty clear evidence of common ancestry. en.m.wikipedia.org We are in agreement that evolution does not conflict with any decent allegorical interpretation of origins.
apatzer 20-Feb-18, 09:36	It is interesting to me that Homo sapiens have been set apart (to large extent) from all other Humanoid species found thus far. Some that were extremely similar to us. Take the Neanderthal man. Arnold Schwarzenegger at the peak of is physicality 22.5 inches would have been nothing and I mean a runt of the litter. to neanderthal man. They were at least 5 times as strong as us, ( probly much more) used tools and had way better endurance and the ability to withstand freezing weather. Chimpanzees have used tools for a very long time as well. proven relatively recently. They are five times stronger than us. To me it has to do with the Brain or the ability to process information and imagination into real world results. Perhaps this could be explained by the eating of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil? Glucose goes directly to the brain (for the most part) it is the brains favorite fuel. I am wondering if that specialized fruit, that was developed and designed for that purpose. Was that fruit simply a delivery system? Not everything needs to be explained by a miracle, that by definition is un-explainable Things were explained to us in the simplest of terms and has withstood the test of time. We are just ignorant in the knowledge department. If we went back in time say 70 years or more and told researchers that the polio virus could be used to cure cancer. We would be run out of town!
lord_shiva 21-Feb-18, 17:47	Smoking Gun <<[Ascorbic acid is] something that most living organisms need! That is like saying since a primate has the gene that makes eyes brown. that is a smoking gun? I dont think so.>> A primate has a defective copy of a gene that expresses the protein that synthesizes ascorbic acid. Primates cannot make it. Humans have the same defective gene. There are a thousand mammals, of which only three types are known to have broken GULO genes. Of these three, only humans and primates share the same defect. Why would a Creator craft the same defect in such closely related species? Then there are endogenous retroviral insertions, segments of DNA in loci in introns inthe same locations in humans and chimpanzees. The further the lineage devolves, the greater the difference. Smacks of common ancestry, particularly given that introns do not express proteins.
apatzer 21-Feb-18, 18:29	Perhapse the defect exists because of the close relation. Both species man and chimp has been around for about 6 million years. Yet 200,000 years ago we evolved. Something miraculous happened that allowed us to develop science art math etc etc. Now that knowlege all of it. Can be used for good or evil and everything in between. Other species that share 99% of our DNA are not even close. What did you think about my hypothesis that the fruit was used as a delivery system? Something triggered in the Brian... Take object perminance... if you do not have it. How hard is it to a quiet it? Especially when it would not even enter the mind. The entier concept would be alien because the brain does not allow it. Because the nessicary biological adaptation is not present to process it.
lord_shiva 21-Feb-18, 19:23	Delivery Fruit In the Niven Known Space series, a root ("tree of life") triggers cascading morphological changes in sufficiently old (post menopausal) people. The root thrives in soil rich in thallium oxide. I had not really considered ingesting food to trigger significant change, but it is certainly plausible. Especially considering coryaceps. The progression of this fungus through various species is startling. A food that awakens consciousness or self awareness. Interesting idea! The closest I get to real world examples are ergot induced metaphysical visions and revelations. Certain Indian tribes use peyote for similar effect. Is that a cactus fruit? I seem to recall it is more of a fungus also.
lord_shiva 21-Feb-18, 19:25	300,000 Years Ago Last year I learned of pretty thoroughly established research pushing origin of Homo Sapiens back to 300,000 years.
apatzer 21-Feb-18, 19:41	Very interesting. Thank you. I have even considered that it may have been a virus that was designed to make a certain genetic change. That is if it was not the fruit in an if itself. My point is That, things dont have to be miraculous. We were explained what happened in very simple terms that matched where we were as a species at that time. To me The garden of Eden was a controlled environment and the fruit was the ultimate delivery system for a species that was already designed to receive it. If you read that story and think of how it could be achieved in the realm of science. I find tgis to be very interesting
winslowhightower 21-Feb-18, 20:01	I think that things DO have to be miraculous, because they are. This is all a crazy miracle.
winslowhightower 21-Feb-18, 20:01	I realize that wasn't very scientific of me. But this is miraculous.
lord_shiva 21-Feb-18, 20:06	GULO Gene <<Perhaps it is a common adaptation between similar species? Dolphins share many of our emotional and social practices.>> Not possible. Mutations are random. If a mutation broke a critical genetic function, the organism would not survive to pass it along. In fruit bats the gene broke one way. In guinea pigs it broke a different way. It appears to have broken a third way in primates. Did it break the same way in gorillas, chimps, orangutans, and all other old world monkeys--AND in humans, all at the same time? These split at differing times in ancient Africa. AND it is broken in Neandertal. Not sure about Denisovans, but if we have typed them it is broken in them the same way, it is safe to bet.
apatzer 21-Feb-18, 20:09	Winslow I agree that This is all a crazy miracle   LS a safe bet... is still a bet none the less.
lord_shiva 21-Feb-18, 21:00	GULO blogs.plos.org
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