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lord_shiva 10-Jul-17, 15:37	Johns Not counting porta-potties, there were: John the Father of Simon. John the Baptist John the Apostle, younger brother of James & Peter. John Mark, who wrote the Gospel according to Mark. One other mentioned in Acts 4:3, apparently NOT one of the above. I don't think any are found in the Old Testament. Curious.
ace-of-aces 10-Jul-17, 16:34	Origins of The Bible youtu.be Jews first wrote the bible before Jesus was born. Before the bible there were many Gods ( pantheism ) but after the bible was written, there is only one God ( monotheism ) and other Gods were eliminated. Over 2000 years ago Christianity was born. The old testament in the Christian bible is similar to Jewish bible because it was copied from Jewish bible. The new testament about Jesus Christ was the add on addition to old testament. 600 years later after Jesus, Islam was born. Here again, Muslims copied it from the Jewish bible. They added Prophet Muhammed as their messenger of Allah. All three religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam believe in only one God. ( Monotheism ). Since there is only one God, the God of Jews, Christians and Muslims must be the same and only God. If we worship the only and same God, why should we fight each other ? We should live in peace.
lord_shiva 10-Jul-17, 16:46	Over 2000 Years Ago? Jesus was crucified about 33 CE. 2017-33 = 1980. That is less than 2000 years, not more, and the crucifixion of Jesus was a critical component of the Christian faith. He began his ministry 3 years earlier, so you could do 2017-36 if you wanted to get real technical, but you still don't exceed 2000 years. Ok, Jesus was probably born around 4 BCE, so you get to add four more years--still under 2000.
vocihc 10-Jul-17, 17:18	I have not read this yet, but it is on my Summer reading list... "The book No Meek Messiah presents one-hundred-and-twenty-six writers from the "time of Jesus" who should have, but did not record anything about the Christian godman." Here is an excerpt that has piqued my curiosity... www.jesusneverexisted.com
ace-of-aces 10-Jul-17, 17:30	AD & BC AD = Anno Domini. The current commonly used calendar was started from the birth of Jesus although we don't know the exact date of birth of Jesus. It is incorrect to say that the calendar started counting since Jesus's crucifixion. BC = Before Christ. BC number of years became smaller as time passed by but the AD number or year increases.
ipsissimus 11-Jul-17, 00:01	I debated whether to make this post because it will not be well received by many here. Modern scholars consider most of the Bible including all of the New Testament to be a fabrication. It is true that there are some Christian apologists who are using their belief system and not facts as evidence. Fabricating stuff like this was common in those days and many tales were concocted to enforce a belief system. You can look at the tales written about Apollonius of Tyana and see this was practiced everywhere. An excellent book on this subject is How Jesus Became God: The Exaltation of a Jewish Preacher from Galilee by Bart D. Ehrman (www.amazon.com). Martin
stalhandske 11-Jul-17, 04:44	< including all of the New Testament to be a fabrication> I suppose you mean "fabrication" in the sense that it is not the word of God (or of Jesus). I think there is a very good possibility that this is actually true (see also the post by vocihc). What makes me very sad under these circumstances is to see and experience the warm devotion and faith one can see within Christianity, and also in some clubs here at GK. I feel that I should not bother them with my sincere suspicions and doubt especially since confrontations only lead to hard words and problems. On the other hand, there seems to be - especially in the USA - a large group of fanatic believers who use indecent methods in their criticism of political figures such as President Obama.
lord_shiva 11-Jul-17, 07:44	33 Years Old Jesus began his ministry at age thirty, and got nailed three years later. As the nailing is the fundamental feature of most modern Christianity, it represents the birth of the religion. If JC was born in 3 CE (Common Era, BCE=Before Common Era), this puts his execution at 30 CE. No one is starting their calendar with the death of Christ, and there is no year zero. Anno Domini means "After Dominion," not "After Death," but then all you already know all this, as you are chess players.
the-jim 11-Jul-17, 12:51	Deleted by the-jim on 15-Jul-17, 16:20.
ipsissimus 11-Jul-17, 22:58	Being able to predict the future actually proves nothing because psychics have always been able to this. There was a school for prophets at the top of Mt. Carmel and this is what they were taught. I am not an atheist. I am a spiritual person but I am not a Christian or a member of any Organized religion. Martin
the-jim 12-Jul-17, 11:05	Deleted by the-jim on 15-Jul-17, 16:20.
redfoxrising 13-Jul-17, 20:39	"Jesus Thirst" Dies at age 36 This is from a book I have been reading,"Killing Jesus A History, Bill O'Reilly &Martin Dugard. ISBN 978-0-8050-9854-9 hardback. From the bottom of page 250 "I thirst" Jesus finally says, He gives in to the dehydration that consumed him for more than 12 hours. His voice was just a whisper. A soldier soaked up a sponge with sour wine and reached up to the lips of Jesus the Nazarene, knowing the liquid would sting. Jesus sucked in the tart fluid. Shortly after, he gazed on Jerusalem one last time. "it is finished" he said. Jesus bowed his head. The crown of thorns upon his head as he lapsed into unconscious. He fell forward, his entire body,pulling his neck and shoulders away from the cross. Only the nails in his hands held him in place. He stopped breathing, Jesus of Nazareth is dead. He is 36 years old. That finished up on page 251 and the next chapter 19 starts on 252 April 7, A.D 30 3 p.m.-6 p.m. *Deuteronomy 21:23 There is a lot more explained but Jesus is dead and removed from the cross, the story goes that he is eventually put into a tomb and it is sealed closed. It was secured for 3 days and as Jesus stated he would rise again. Long story short He returns. I'm christian, this is what I believe. I also find the other facts in this thread, as something I looked up, and respect other opinions, as I have my beliefs and others can have theirs, Science, Nature, and all the Religions make the mystery of Christ, God, and the Holy spirit hard for the logical minds here on GK to understand. I'm only a man who believes in Jesus and science, I also pray for world peace. That's unlikely to ever happen. I sure a new thread could be made to discuss that topic. Regards, Ron
stalhandske 13-Jul-17, 21:04	Thanks, Ron, for your post. I want to make very clear that in my opinion everyone is free to believe what they want. This is also the policy of this Club. When doubt is expressed, for example about the origins of the Bible, it is only for discussion purposes, not for purposes of making believers lose their faith, nor in order to mock them. I think such a dichotomy is entirely possible, and often in fact quite interesting, even productive for the thinking process. In my personal life I have a few examples of tough but kind discussions with friends, who are strong believers in God. In fact, two of them are Christian (Lutheran) priests. The only group of people that I sincerely dislike, and fear, are the fanaticists. We find those among believers as much as among atheists!
lord_shiva 13-Jul-17, 21:39	Fanaticism I have found atheists more fanatical than believers, in general. Like, 30% of hardcore atheists insist everyone should be an atheist--than any religious faith is indefensible. I've only encountered about 20%, maybe less, of "hardcore" religious fanatics who insist that atheists are inherently evil.
chaz- 14-Jul-17, 13:33	...good posts here. I believe that "God" explains much that may not be explained any other way, and is useful as we adapt to scientific discoveries that give us the ingredients to this massive stewpot of creation as we go along. Furthermore, any "God" that could be responsible for this immense universe we live in, is a lot grander and more effective than many of the philosophies we have used historically. I'm comfortable.
stalhandske 14-Jul-17, 20:38	<I believe that "God" explains much that may not be explained any other way> That's a very interesting sentence! To me it is a too convenient way to "explain" something I don't understand. Actually, (to me) it is no explanation at all - just substituting "God" for "I don't know".
nambam 14-Jul-17, 21:45	that explanation is called "god of the gaps" chaz. there will always be "gaps", e.g. "why is there something rather than nothing", and other mrtaphysical questions that science is not designed to answer. my belief is, "leave the physical to science,leave the metaphysics to the metaphisicians and/or God.
chaz- 14-Jul-17, 22:03	...yes Stahl, of course, there would always be an "I don't know aspect" for this. That is merely another choice of words. Still, for a significant number of people, this aspect of "God" can both be meaningful and useful. ...yes, nambam, that is another way to choose to look at it. I don't necessarily disagree. I guess I don't have to make the distinction that you do.
stalhandske 14-Jul-17, 22:08	<Still, for a significant number of people, this aspect of "God" can both be meaningful and useful.> I agree!
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