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 these consultation games are good
to the final result. And especially if we can get a final review by one
of our more advanced players of the whole game.
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elyhim
29-Dec-17, 14:13
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I vote for Bb2
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canuktuff
29-Dec-17, 17:04
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Bb2
i vote Bb2 also
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ipsissimus
31-Dec-17, 06:30
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We have a majority for 10.Bb2
There are still a few team members who have not voiced their opinion but I will now make this move.
Martin
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We have played 10.Bb2
The current position is:
RoW to move
 game
Martin
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RoW has played 10...NBd7
The current position is:
NA to move
game
Martin
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My 2 cents to 10...Nbd7
Black's position is solid. He does however have several notable weaknesses. One is that he has a large amount of pawns on white squares. This creates what is known as a weak square complex on the dark squares. This is a known weakness in the Dutch defense which in my opinion is unsound to begin with. He also has a huge hole at e5. The h5-k1 diagonal is weak and my own opinion Is that by playing f5 he has weakened his kings position. This is especially true if you notice his somewhat weakened e pawn. In general I believe that white has a slight advantage. The Dutch defends is popular at the club level but is rare in top-level international play. This by itself speaks volumes about what top level grandmasters think about it. We can defeat this thing and show black why this is not a good choice for an opening.
We have several long-term goals. The more immediate one is to eliminate Blacks DSB because this further weakens his dark squares. A more long-term goal would be to eliminate the Knight at f6 because it is one of the main defenders of blacks king side.
The player of the Dutch defense has set upon himself the task of launching a somewhat premature king side attack. the golden rule of attacking players is that you do not launch such an attack until you control the center. Okay stabilizing it is also possible but not as good as absolutely controlling it. There is also on another caveat which sometimes escapes the would be attacking player and that is that all attacks are defensible if you make the proper moves. If this happens and you have compromised your position or sacrificed material then you will lose the resulting endgame.
All things considered I recommend 11.Nd2. This protects our c pawn and if black were to play dxc4 we respond with Nxc4 which would allow us to attack Blacks DSB. This will be my vote.
Martin
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I vote
11.Nd2
Martin
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I agree
11.Nd2 avoiding e5 the usual plan of black
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canuktuff
03-Jan-18, 11:03
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Ne2
with all do respect to our top players Ne2 i find better and black still cant play e5 or dxc4 .please elaborate why Ne2 is not preferable ? if black play Ba6 Rc1 comes
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I vote
11.Rc1. When White's c4 pawn capture e5 pawn later, there will be a hole to attack our foe.
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Canuktuff is right! I switch my vote to Ne2
My preference for Nd2 was based on being able to retake with Nxc4 in the event that black should play dxc4. Upon further scrutiny I see that if we have played Ne2 black still cannot play dxc4 because this brings disaster after Ne5. Ne2 is actually a better move which gives us a slightly better position.
Martin
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We should consider the N moves later to d2 or e2 depending on the position of Black's move. I am not sure Black will allow White to position the N on c4 that Ipsi suggested because that will be a commanding position for White. I suspect that Black will move white square bishop on a6 attacking c4 pawn and Rf1. In that case move the R to e1. My alternative move is Qc2 and then move Rf1 to d1 or e1. We should concentrate our forces so that we can attack the strategic location which is at the center of the board.
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clashofpawns
04-Jan-18, 11:12
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I vote for Ne2
Been out of commission for awhile but I'm back
Ne2 is my vote here.
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I believe the idea of Ne2 is to place Nf3 on e5 so that N can be supported by Bb2. As the saying goes, "The power of N at the rim is dim " N on e5 is a strong move but Black will not tolerate it and will be exchanged.
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I VOTE 11.Ne2
There is not a better move that I can find.
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dmaestro
05-Jan-18, 01:50
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I’ll go with Ne2
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Majority rule.
I vote 11. Ne2 I he majority vote Ne2. For me I don't see much difference but equal in value from my previous vote 11.Rc3. I can switch on to 11.N.e2. I appreciate if somebody can explain why 11.Ne2 is better than Rc1. For me Ne2 is a backward move and Rc1 is preferable because it develops the R into more central position. The analogy is similar to castling where you move the R into more central position for attack.
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clashofpawns
05-Jan-18, 12:11
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ace-of-aces, I will try to give a little insight later. Running around town today but if you would like some of my thoughts I will try to provide a little later!
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clashofpawns
Thanks for sharing your expert opinion. I appreciate it and I am looking forward to seeing your thoughts and suggestions.
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Votes so far
These are the votes so far. we have a majority for Ne2.
Nd2
deepthough
Ne2
canuktuff
ipsi
clash
easy
dmaestro
ace
I will make the move Ne2 since it has the majority.
Martin
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We have moved
11.Ne2
The current position is:
RoW to move.
game
Martin
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RoW has played 11...Ba6
as of 11 hours ago. The current position is:
NA to move.
game
Martin
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elyhim
08-Jan-18, 11:22
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I say we play 12.Ne5 Bxe5 13. dxe5 Ng4 14. Nd4 +/= we have a slight initiative.
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elyhim
08-Jan-18, 11:40
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position after the above line. White will have a distinct advantage in a few more moves. The issue that black will face is lack of mobility, long term structural weaknesses and poor attacking prospects.
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I vote 12. Ne5
Thanks Elyhim for your excellent assessment. I concur with the position he mentioned and Black has to defend the c3 pawn but if Back Nd2 capture white's e5 pawn how can white's Nd4 capture black c3 pawn ? unless we drive away the knights away by the pawns. My memory and imagination are limited and I cannot calculate and analyze the complicated positions much further in the moves. I appreciate if somebody can correct my moves if they are wrong.
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clashofpawns
08-Jan-18, 13:25
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I'm torn between Rc1 and Ne5. I will have to think about this more. At first I suspected Ne5 would prompt Rac8, especially from Cyrano, but then 13. a4 and the backwards pawn isn't a problem. Black might have to play Bb8..
I will think this over some more
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canuktuff
08-Jan-18, 13:53
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Rc1 /ne5
i must agree with clashofpawns on this one ! originally i was calling for Rc1 after i predicted they will play Ba6 ...but Ne5 is a good one too !
the thing is we know they will not tolerate Ne5 and they will exchange ,but i dont believe Cyrano will allow the position to become as above board .so i will go with the majority on next move
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CoP 's analysis
and questions of how to defend white's e5 pawn is very legitimate. e5 pawn is threatened by Black's two knights. How will we defend White's e5 pawn in the Ipsis's last diagram position. My analysis is very short sighted but in the following diagram whit has slight advantage in the late stages with White's 2 bishops to Black's one piece R. Since there are many alternative moves in chess, I am not sure we will get into that position. Correct me If I am wrong if you have better moves.
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