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From	Message
cyna 21-Jan-17, 20:05	Feminism and Emasculation What does feminism have to do with the emasculation of the male gender? I read this article online today, reporting on Twitter comments by Piers Morgan: “Imagine if there were a load of men-only marches today? The feminists would go crackers,” Morgan wrote in one of MANY tweets on the subject, saying in another, “I’m planning a ‘Men’s March’ to protest at the creeping global emasculation of my gender by rabid feminists. Who’s with me?” ('Piers Morgan Women’s March Tweets Ripped', Shari Weiss, Gossip Cop, 01/21/17) I would like to understand the connection... How is it that females marching for equal rights for women cause men to become effeminate? Any thoughts?
johnclark 21-Jan-17, 20:21	Good question. I don't know. But it seems patriarchal societies outnumber matriarchal societies. See mentalfloss.com . You saw what a stir Dan Brown caused with Da Vinci Code's theme of a woman continuing Jesus' bloodline.
saintinsanity 21-Jan-17, 20:39	I'm not too sure about this one. As a straight white male, I'm basically bombarded constantly on all sides about other types of people. I thought we were all humans. I don't see a problem with people being or feeling differently. That said, Piers has a small point that if white men tried to have a march it would certainly be considered bad. I don't think freedom and equality should come at the expense of any other group.
johnclark 21-Jan-17, 20:43	That's interesting. What do they call it when the majority protests?
saintinsanity 21-Jan-17, 20:47	Genocide. See? Bad jokes. I think the point is that the majority is not able to protest.
johnclark 21-Jan-17, 20:56	I was thinking "oppression." But maybe "backlash" is closer. I think there is another for it, though. Anything come to mind?
saintinsanity 21-Jan-17, 21:00	Dicklash, whitelash..No, nothing is really coming to mind. How about reality? Whatever Lola wants Lola gets.
cyna 21-Jan-17, 22:05	Interesting article, JC. Thanks for sharing. There are also plenty of female-led families here in this country, although we're not as empowered as some of the groups mentioned in the article. Regarding Saintinsanity's comments, I am perplexed at his thinking. If I got his intended meaning correctly, it seems he is on the same page as Pierce Morgan, but I may be wrong. At any rate, I'd like to say that my belief is women have the right to equal pay for equal work, a right to live a life free of physical and sexual abuse, the right to be free of discrimination in the workplace, and the right to self-determination, as well as to be treated with basic human dignity and respect. The human rights, the character, masculinity, or the ego of a man should not hinge on denying others their basic human rights, as mentioned above. Power and control is not necessarily a good thing, in my view, especially when it deprives another human being of their humanness. Equal rights for women should not and do not minimize anyone else's basic human rights. Period.
saintinsanity 21-Jan-17, 22:09	Yes. That is exactly my point. It shouldn't matter gender, color, religion, sexual orientation....none of that matters when it comes to rights. We are all human beings.
saintinsanity 21-Jan-17, 22:12	To agree with Piers, if white men had a march we would be considered bad for any sort of pride or solidarity. Is it bad for white men to be who they are?
saintinsanity 22-Jan-17, 01:13	www.youtube.com
kneilca2 22-Jan-17, 07:06	Equality vs. Equity? Is the difficulty in parsing Piers Morgan and others suspicious or contemptuous of "liberalism" somehow connected to the concepts of equality and equity? Here's what some self-identified feminists have to say: everydayfeminism.com And here is a visual, along with an opposing viewpoint: oneworldgifted.weebly.com
johnclark 22-Jan-17, 10:51	@neilca: Astute as ever! I would say it very much is. Good connection, great links.
saintinsanity 22-Jan-17, 11:15	The real problem with that visual is that those rapscallions are trying to watch the game for free! They need to buy a ticket like everyone else.
johnclark 22-Jan-17, 11:26	And since God made the two other folks taller, they were ordained to see the game for free.
saintinsanity 22-Jan-17, 11:31	I more closely align with the opposing viewpoint. I think everyone should get all the assistance they need. I'm all for "shoveling the ramp" first so that everyone has access to what they need. But if the tall guy wants a box, let him have a box. We don't need to take away boxes. Adding boxes should be fine. Seriously, though, if white men marched on Washington DC there would be talk of the klan.
johnclark 22-Jan-17, 11:45	"If white men marched on Washington DC", what would they be marching for? Equality? Fairness?
kneilca2 22-Jan-17, 11:57	The Problem With Metaphors The problem with the visual on Equality vs. Equity is that it implies that some have no needs, while others have great needs. I think, though, the intent was to portray that we all have different needs and only when those are taken into account AND acted upon, can true fairness exist. Metaphors can only illustrate, they are not the entire argument.
saintinsanity 22-Jan-17, 11:57	What does anyone march for? Because Trump is scary, that's why!
kneilca2 22-Jan-17, 12:00	@ Saintinsanity & JC: So fairness?
saintinsanity 22-Jan-17, 12:04	I suppose I would march for something like that.
cyna 22-Jan-17, 13:09	How about a March for the Truth? Trump's "House of Lies" is beginning to look and sound like "The Emperor's New Clothes" in that his people are protecting his false delusions, and no one in his camp have the backbone enough to tell him to his face he is a liar. Yes, I agree, he's scary. It's also sickening to think about the President of the United States of America being such a laughingstock. I personally think he's a mad lunatic, and I don't see how he was allowed to take control of the Office as Leader of the Free World. Unbelievable!
saintinsanity 22-Jan-17, 13:15	I think it's all blown out of proportion. Trump isn't scary. If people can't determine truth from lies then they have bigger problems than who is president. I'm all for the truth. But again, as Piers said, if men organized a men-only march we would be heckled to no end.
cyna 22-Jan-17, 13:39	I'm not so sure there would be crowds heckling the "men-only" marchers. I tend to view most human-beings as having a basic sense of decency. I think most folks would support good and just causes for anyone, including those of the "men-only march" if the need was real, if it didn't deny or undermine anyone else, and not done in jest, in my humble opinion. Like anyone, they have a right to march.
saintinsanity 22-Jan-17, 13:43	Well, it would certainly be allowed (yay America!) but you know some of the reporting would be negative. Just like everything.
cyna 22-Jan-17, 13:56	Well, that's an interesting twist. Which reminds me, in circling back to the original question of how feminism is emasculating the male sex, it's probably caused by negative media reporting, lol... Just kidding.
saintinsanity 22-Jan-17, 22:41	I have no problem with feminism or all non-white people being upset about all of recorded history. I just don't think I should be blamed or held down because of what other white males did in the past, that's all. I would love to eliminate all racism and sexism. I just don't think that introducing racism and sexism against white people and men is a good way to do that.
johnclark 22-Jan-17, 23:00	@saint: I assume that you are a white male. Can you talk more on how you feel you are held down?
saintinsanity 22-Jan-17, 23:13	Yes, white male here. I was one of the smart kids in school who was held back to wait for the others. I actually was asked by the teacher help other students. I didn't mind that, but I always wonder how much further I could have gone with the ability to learn everything I wanted as quickly as possible. By the time I was in high school it had tilted the other way, I didn't care about learning, I just wanted to get the busy work done and go play video games. If anything, I hold myself down so that the less able don't feel too bad about themselves.
johnclark 22-Jan-17, 23:29	@saint: Thank you. What was the "being held back to wait for others" about?
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