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Whites options against the Scandinavian...
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wrecking_ball 28-Apr-14, 12:53 |
 Whites options against the Scandinavian...Some of the variations I list below in that thread you may find interesting and may want to research further,including the links. mattdw 10-Feb-10, 02:25 White's options against the Scandinavian What can white do against 1.e4 d5 ? I much prefer to play gambits at the moment, white can tranpose to the Blackmar-Diemer gambit with 2.d4. Are there any other options that I can't think of? White seems to be fairly limited in terms of responses here... loreta 10-Feb-10, 04:31 Two options a) to resign! b) to crush or to die! maca 11-Feb-10, 09:39 ...I like to play against Scandinavian. I think it tends to give white a very clear position to play from. I like to play the classic line, 1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qa5 4. d4 , although 3. Nf3 is apparently supposed to be stronger. Regards, MaCa. blake78613 11-Feb-10, 10:00 currently the latest trend is to retreat the Queen to Qd6 instead of a5. I think the problem lines are when Black plays 2...Nf6 when he tends to get very active piece play for his pawn. tactical_abyss 11-Feb-10, 12:22 Yes, 3....Qd6 is more fashionable today,but after,for example... 4.Nf3,Nf6 5.d4,c6 6.Ne5,Nbd7 7.Bf4,Nd5 8.Bg3,Nxc3(or 8.....Qb4 9.a3!) 9.bxc3,Nxe5 10.Bxe5,Qg6 11.Rb1 Now white has more active advantage than black.But it still is one of the best with alternatives such as Wik mentions...whites...d4,Nf3,g3,Bg2,0-0 and later Ne5 with strong position. Transpositions can occur in the Scand.defense into the Nimzowitsch Defense (3.d4 instead of Nc3)but I would not recommend it.Forms of the french defense can also surface and may be better. Overall,my opinion is that black should avoid this opening.White tends to do slightly better overall statistically,but it does have surprize value to the unprepared. If anything,I have used the Scand.as a drawing weapon playing black against stronger opponents,just like the Petrov.But in general,I avoid playing the Scand.as black for much better defenses that exist.On the higher rating levels you will find out that playing the black side of this defense is many times an uphill battle to win,let alone draw...so it is usually rare to see it it tournament chess,atleast OTB. blake78613 12-Feb-10, 07:27 [ report abuse ] I think the Scandinavian is not a bad choice for a Class C player, that doesn't want to spend a lot of time studying openings. It is easy to learn and at that level piece activity is worth more than a pawn. Also for a higher rated player it's not a bad opening to use against lower rated player. The problem I have using my first line defenses against lower rated players is that it's sometimes hard to play for a win. tactical_abyss 12-Feb-10, 14:45 Yes,blake,that is what I basically said above...its somewhat of an uphill battle for black to win,atleast statistically and in my opinion in class c OR above.Like i said,I have used the Scand.as a drawing weapon against stronger opponents,but even against lesser rated opponents I find it hard to win as black,and still end up drawing.Alot of players think that they have done well in the Scand.as black...but when you check the game out,what you find many times is that the so called "Scandinavian"game has TRANSPOSED into many other types of defenses completely whether it be some form of a french defense,Nimzo,Panov attack or many of the other gambits that you can read about in Wik. It is a great defense for learning and is easy to learn,no question.However,there are many transpositional moves that can take years to master,depending upon which river you decide to float down. On the higher rating levels the Scand does not offer much winning chances,thus it is not played much in tourneys,except as an occassional surprise weapon.But for the class c or lower,it is fine.On occassion I have witnessed it played on a GM level,but I think that was for the extra half point tourney win. baronderkilt 12-Feb-10, 18:44 Blake78613 ... you an me both. That is the lament I always had for my French Defense while playing Postal Chess, and KI as well. One particular var vs each that was too drawish to suit. *** I don't really know of any gambits vs the Scandi, other than the B-Diemer mentioned. Which maybe could go to some similarity to the "fantasy" var. vs Caro-Kann if not a Diemer proper. Tho I do know a WT line vs a 2...Nf6 Scandi that has all the development, mobile pawn center, etc that one expects to get from a Gambit. And also has options for WT to approach it with 2 or 3 different middle game plans/formations. Unfortunately, it is "free" since WT does not have to give up a pawn to get it. Its more like having your cake and eating it too. Let me know if any interest in seeing. ***** Here is what I fail to see. My studies of a past decade showed that the Caro-Kann was #2 to the Sicilian only, in decisive published games. It won slightly less but lost slightly less as well. (Granted this was around the start of the Karpov era, and before publication of "Play The French".) So my thought is this: How can the Scandi ever be any worse than playing a into a Caro-Kann line that lacks the d-pawn? Many times BL simply has a tempo over a C-K position. Can anyone see an reason why a Scandi would ever be less playable than a Caro !? I would be quite interested to hear the rationale, if so. *** }8-) mattdw 12-Feb-10, 19:31 Craig, I would definitely be interested in having my cake, and eating it too! Please let us know the line of which you speak! I can't comment on your second point, I don't know much of the French or Cara-Kann at all. tactical_abyss 12-Feb-10, 19:36 baron: Gambits against the scand alternatives to 2.exd5) 2.Nf3(Tennisons Gambit) 2.g4(Zilbermints Gambit) 2.exd5,Nf6(Marshall Gambit) and here is one on the Icelandic Gambit of the Scand: www.chess.com all of these and many other lines simply offer primarily equality. baronderkilt 12-Feb-10, 23:03 MATT ~ Maybe its not such a very fattening cake, but ... there are many ways to eat it~! *** gameknot.com gameknot.com/annotation.pl/collister-counter-gambit?gm=29550 *** Thx T/A , I had forgotten about Tennison's. A good player in my area adopted it for his own in the 90's and we were calling it "The Carney" in these parts, for a long time. If I recall correctly, it works pretty well but WT gets tested best by a timely Qd4 or Qd5, one or the other. Maybe such as 1.d4 Nf6 2.e4 de4 3.Ng5 Nf6 4.Nc3 Qd4 , from off the top of my head. *** Ok Matt, this is what I've been playing vs the 2...Nf6 Scandi for some time now; both in Postal & in OTB Tournaments. It does very well in both. Not that I can claim it to be so very strong, objectively, but it is extremely flexible & that seems to provide practical chances. Perhaps "to the better player, to win" as they say. And allows replay vs the same opponent, with a change of plan, for instance. *** Playing it since the 80's I thought of it as the Collister variation. But reflecting further, it could be called a Counter-Gambit of sorts since it does offer the pawn back to Black. I think it sounds much better anyway: The Collister Counter-Gambit !? ) *** All thought on it are welcome of course. And if you know that someone else already claimed it; analyzed it in Russian, and defeated a Bulgarian with it (?!) ... If so, go ahead & break my heart by telling me ... I will just hope it was my "Hero-of-opening-quirks" Morozevich, if so. *** }8-D tactical_abyss 13-Feb-10, 04:12 Baron, I have not dug in deeply into my records,(no time now)...but this one comes close through some transpositions in and around #13-15.Other than that,your line seems original. www.365chess.com |
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wrecking_ball 28-Apr-14, 13:10 |
gameknot.com The only reason I copy/paste some of these past posts is that i'm not sure if they will last forever,year after year with the links.Plus,sometimes a club member will not be interested in clicking links and would find it more interesting to scan down the string immediately.Of course,when you copy/paste an entire string,it does not look as aesthetically pleasing as the actual link. But the first post above is the exact link in this second post. |
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wrecking_ball 03-May-14, 17:00 |
More Scandinavian options.... Take for example: 1.e4,d5 2.exd5 That is a standard,common and popular response to the Scan. Well,I go immediately against the grain of some of those players(especially lower rated) who want to avoid other openings and I proceed to change a game to a style they do NOT want to pursue. Transpose to a French advanced variation(c02)! 1.e4,d5 2.e5! Now black can respond in several ways from move #...2,but many of the better databases will suggest 2.....c5 on the top of their stat list. So for the moment,lets go with that as an example: 1.e4,d5 2.e5,c5 3.c3,e6 4.d4,Nc6 5.Nf3,Nh6 6.Bxh6,gxh6 7.Be2,Qb6 Position after move #4: Now,I prefer the Advanced over the Winawer variation simply because I have gained a few positional tips from Benjamin at the Marshall and it does indeed produce a struggle.The Winawer has a bit more statistical win probabilities however,but transposition from a Scan to a Wina is not as easily done in most circumstances.But the key,was to simply send my opponent into uncharted French waters and away from a Scandinavian! French stats: Winawer Var:42% white wins,29%black wins,29% draws Advance Var:38% white wins,35% black wins,27% draws Exchange Var:25%white wins,32%,black wins,43%draws Main line(4.e5):40%white wins,29%black wins,31%draws Tarrasch Var:40% white wins,25%black wins,35%draws. Also,there are some stat data bases that will illustrate right from move #2.e5,that this variant move is much higher in winning chances for white,than the move 2.exd5,but that depends upon which database you are looking at and if it is up to date.But putting databases aside...if you like the French and someone opens up with a Scandinavian,well you have options! And if your into a past game research level,like I am and you see a few losses from your upcoming opponent that was playing a french defense game and also observed that he loves the Scan....well throw a monkey wrench into his game!(Or in my case,a "wrecking Ball"!!) |
