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From	Message
teardrop34 07-Dec-15, 18:11	Deleted by teardrop34 on 08-Dec-15, 05:24.
teardrop34 08-Dec-15, 05:26	Very instructive endgame Sorry, could not confirm my source, but puzzle is still good nonetheless
baddeeds 08-Dec-15, 08:28	That's fine, as this is a complex position, just like what I recently annotated.
deeper_insight 08-Dec-15, 16:07	Hope I am not taking away from any response's of the other club members,but the above diagram with one black Knight and one white Rook is called a "theoretical draw".See the link below: chess.stackexchange.com With horrible play from black white can win,but the above position is generally considered a draw.Its interesting to note that if you plug in the above diagram into a Nalimov,the response is...."no data".What that tells the Nalimov tablebase user is that it is not necessarily a set in stone win for sure and not necessarily a set in stone draw for sure!So that position is "sitting on the fence". Nalimov tablebase,to plug in the diagram for yourself below.No matter who initiates the first move,black or white,it is still listed as "no data". chessok.com
deeper_insight 08-Dec-15, 16:13	I suppose you can also call it a "theoretical win",but it has been mainly referred to as a draw,nonetheless.On my level,this position would immediately be an agreed draw.On lesser rated levels,I can see where some players would continue the game indefinitely.If I had the black in the above diagram,it would be strictly impossible for me to lose,unless I was severely drunk or ready to kick the bucket and did not care how I moved.
deeper_insight 08-Dec-15, 16:26	More links on the above diagram: Again wins are possible with horrid play from black,but the stats are approx 71% for draws. www.chess.com www.chessgames.com So its on the fence as to definitive wins or draws and Nalimov agrees.So,I suppose,as a 1300 rated player you could lose playing the black side,but only in circumstances as suggested in the first link above.With me,that scenario would never happen.
teardrop34 08-Dec-15, 16:48	Correct. tactical-abyss is correct, the position is drawn. It's not a 100% dead draw, but what I'd call at least 70% likely to end in a draw. There are some special cases with this endgame that have to be kept in mind when confronted with it, but in this position, as ambiguous as this, a draw is the correct response. It really depends on the opponents you get and how comfortable you both are with endgame theory. This isn't the only ambiguous type there is, but my goal in posting some of these is to familiarize people with them so that when certain types come up, they are easily recognized, and hopefully, you're on the winning side of the endgame.   I actually played a game on here that reached a similar position, and agreed to a draw game
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