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Liberal Logic
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tower919 14-Mar-17, 20:40 |
 What rules does the church have? Whatever they are, I suspect they're not based on the New Testament, particularly if you're referring to the Catholic church. I'm no expert on the branches of Christianity but I suspect many have differences regarding what happens after one dies and the sequence of events concerning Christ's return to earth. And love God and your neighbor addresses commandments on earth - not salvation or a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Salvation is obtained by accepting Christ as one's Lord and Saviour (see John 3:16 and Romans 10:9.) Such acceptance leads to the indwelling of God's Holy Spirit, which makes following the two commandments much easier - actually, second nature for Christians who are in The Word and praying on a regular (daily) basis. |
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tower919 14-Mar-17, 22:44 |
@zorroloco You seem to think (correct me if I'm wrong) that Christianity is about men and women doing their best to follow rules and regulations which, in your mind, is no different than atheistic men and women doing their best to follow rules and regulations. But that's not at all what Christianity is about. To understand what Christianity is about, you first have to be willing to consider that an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent God exists because Christianity is about a relationship with Him. But if you aren't willing to consider God exists, even as a thought experiment, you'll never understand Christianity. |
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tower919 14-Mar-17, 22:48 |
(1 Corinthians 2:14) |
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saintinsanity 14-Mar-17, 22:51 |
But Christianity seems far preferable to me than Islam considering the current incarnations of the religions. |
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tower919 14-Mar-17, 23:08 |
Christianity is really about restoring the relationship between God and man that existed before the fall of man. And that's accomplished through belief in Jesus Christ, who returns man, in God's eyes, to his pre-fallen state. "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6) |
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anomalocaris 15-Mar-17, 00:09 |
So there are no rules? So basically Jeff can be an atheist and a Christian? |
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saintinsanity 15-Mar-17, 00:46 |
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anomalocaris 15-Mar-17, 00:51 |
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tower919 15-Mar-17, 07:47 |
Seems that you are removing God from the equation also. If Jeff (or anyone) were a Christian, he would have received the indwelling of God's Holy Spirit so one cannot be both a Christian and an atheist. The Christian has the indwelling of God's Holy Spirit; the atheist doesn't. "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith." (Galatians 3:13-14) "But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:23-26) |
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tower919 15-Mar-17, 07:55 |
"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." (Galatians 5:1-4) "But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law." (Galatians 5:18) |
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tower919 15-Mar-17, 08:03 |
All Christians believe in God, and, more specifically, that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh and was crucified to pay the penalty for our sins. In a society that is based upon rewards for work and effort, the concept that we do not have to earn salvation can be hard to understand. But salvation (our reward in the afterlife) and the indwelling of God's Holy Spirit (our reward on earth) are gifts from God to those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. |
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tower919 15-Mar-17, 08:19 |
"And when Jesus was passed over again by ship unto the other side, much people gathered unto him: and he was nigh unto the sea. And, behold, there cometh one of the rulers of the synagogue, Jairus by name; and when he saw him, he fell at his feet, And besought him greatly, saying, My little daughter lieth at the point of death: I pray thee, come and lay thy hands on her, that she may be healed; and she shall live. And Jesus went with him; and much people followed him, and thronged him. And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years, And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse, When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment. For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole. And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague. And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes? And his disciples said unto him, Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me? And he looked round about to see her that had done this thing. But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth. And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague. While he yet spake, there came from the ruler of the synagogue's house certain which said, Thy daughter is dead: why troublest thou the Master any further? As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, he saith unto the ruler of the synagogue, Be not afraid, only believe. And he suffered no man to follow him, save Peter, and James, and John the brother of James. And he cometh to the house of the ruler of the synagogue, and seeth the tumult, and them that wept and wailed greatly. And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn. But when he had put them all out, he taketh the father and the mother of the damsel, and them that were with him, and entereth in where the damsel was lying. And he took the damsel by the hand, and said unto her, Talitha cumi; which is, being interpreted, Damsel, I say unto thee, arise. And straightway the damsel arose, and walked; for she was of the age of twelve years. And they were astonished with a great astonishment." (Mark 5:21-42) Notice the words Jesus spoke to the ill woman - "Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole;" - and to the ruler of the synagogue - "Be not afraid, only believe." |
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anomalocaris 15-Mar-17, 11:18 |
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tower919 15-Mar-17, 12:01 |
What rules are you referring to? |
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saintinsanity 15-Mar-17, 14:02 |
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Religion has no rules? Have no God before me? What are those? |
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saintinsanity 15-Mar-17, 14:04 |
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tower919 15-Mar-17, 14:12 |
@zorroloco Christianity is based on the New Testament. |
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tower919 15-Mar-17, 14:15 |
If God created the universe and everything in it, surely you're not surprised He could turn water into wine, multiply loaves and fishes, heal the sick and raise the dead. I think your stumbling block is you consider Jesus Christ to be only a man and not God in the flesh. |
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saintinsanity 15-Mar-17, 14:19 |
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tower919 15-Mar-17, 14:23 |
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anomalocaris 15-Mar-17, 22:20 |
Tower |
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saintinsanity 15-Mar-17, 22:27 |
Live and learn. Tower, I love you and your political views but I can't turn over just for that. The democrats will have to make fun of us for disagreeing because they realize Islam is the best religion but we are still disagreeing about Christ. |
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anomalocaris 15-Mar-17, 22:33 |
I don't say this because some have perverted Islam because some have also perverted Christianity. I say this because Islam teaches death, violence, and hatred. |
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saintinsanity 15-Mar-17, 22:51 |
I mean, Kellyanne was fantastic against Maddow just now but this is another lever of being receptive Try this www.youtube.com Very hard to listen with your brain. Good luck |
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tower919 15-Mar-17, 23:12 |
Why? What rules have you identified? You're (I think) suggesting that rules *have* to be followed through effort. Christianity is the opposite. You're saved (obtain salvation) by faith and faith alone and the indwelling of God's Holy Spirit leads you through life on earth. "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." (Galatians 5:16) This is not to say that a Christian will live a perfect life because we still have our "sin nature." "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would." (Galatians 5:17) But staying in The Word and prayer will keep one much more attuned to the indwelt Holy Spirit than a Christian who is not in The Word and prayer. But Christians who stumble - and all do - can seek and obtain forgiveness from God when they do. |
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tower919 15-Mar-17, 23:39 |
Fulfilled the law is more accurate. "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." (Matthew 5:17) <No more blood sacrifice. Jesus died on purpose, the lamb with no blemish killed,> Agree. <the best fat calf for the poor wayward son finally come home and screw the good son who always followed the old testament rules> Not screw the good son. He wasn't treated badly and had nothing taken from him. "What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost. I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance." (Luke 15:4-7) You must hate the parable of the workers in the vineyard - the poor saps who labored all day got the same wage as the workers who showed up and worked only an hour: "For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard. And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard. And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way. Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise. And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle? They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive. So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first. And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny. And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house, Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day. But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen." (Matthew 20:1-16) <He was wasting his time for our wrongdoings.> Who was wasting his time for our wrongdoings? Don't understand who you're referring to. <Now we are forgiven IF we just follow the very few rules of belief.> Only one belief - see John 3:16 and Romans 10:9. <Live and learn.> Agree. One should always be learning. <Tower, I love you and your political views but I can't turn over just for that.> Love you too, bud, and I'm not asking you (or anyone else) to turn over. People always think I'm proselytizing when I post about Christianity. But I'm almost always answering questions or defending it, and I'm rarely the one who brings it up. <The democrats will have to make fun of us for disagreeing because they realize Islam is the best religion but we are still disagreeing about Christ.> Don't really care what mockers say or think "The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth. The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming." (Psalm 37:12-13) |
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anomalocaris 16-Mar-17, 00:05 |
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tower919 16-Mar-17, 00:34 |
(John 14:6) "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." (Romans 10:9) |
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anomalocaris 16-Mar-17, 05:18 |
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