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apatzer 16-Aug-19, 16:35	Trump promise's during his run for president. I am opening a thread on this topic because several people have stated that they like what they see. Or that Trump is doing what he said he would do. So feel free to list your positive's or opinions here. I need a new perspective, because to be honest I don't really see it. Some things yes. However there is a big difference between taking credit for something or having something attributed to you, and actually being the cause or taking the actions yourself. The reason I say this is due to the tax cuts. I will explain my opinion. Trump said he would cut the corporate tax down to 15% from 35% that is a substantial decrease almost half. The tax rate is has actually been decreased to 21% Over promise and under deliver. For average Americans it's even worse. For average Americans like truckers you can no longer deduct expenses, the point is the standard deduction was almost doubled. Yet other things that we could deduct were taken away. The average person will see a little increase in their pay check, short term. But will owe more at the end. Because the more you make the more they will take. To sum up... The rich get a reduction in rate. The average get an increase in deduction And the poor and elderly get screwed. Also to say it is Trump's tax cuts is not even accurate. It is the GOP tax plan. Trump had complained about signing it because he didn't read it (plausible deniability of things go south) then he begrudgingly signed it and said it wouldn't happen again. He didn't write it He didn't read it All he did was sign it, If that isn't taking credit for something you had almost nothing to do with. I don't know what is. But hey what boss in history doesn't take credit for the work and ideas of the people under them. Happens all of the time. It is all smoke and mirrors and for the life of me I can't understand why such intelligent people fall for it. Perhaps it is because they want to fall for it.
apatzer 16-Aug-19, 16:42	Oh on top of that our glorified tax deduction expires in 10 years. Ok to your brother, I will give a Mack truck full of freash cherry pies every year Permanently. For you I will double the pie that you have already, however I need your bread, butter and a few egg's and oh by the way at the end of the year you will give me half a pie. Yep what a great deal 👍
apatzer 16-Aug-19, 18:54	Oh and then there's this... From Forbes: www.forbes.com This is even more charity fraud in action. But it is deeper than that as it is Mammon in action. Luke 16:13 “No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.” ... Mammon is much more than money. Mammon is defined as materialism, and worldly gain Hear is an open question that I am only asking people of faith, who believe in God and are Christians. (I don't mean to exclude anyone) Have you ever asked God for forgiveness? My answer to that question: Yes and sometimes multiple times a day. And sometimes for things I have already asked for forgiveness for multiple times in the past. Ok, your turn (If you don't mind) how do you answer That question?
lord_shiva 17-Aug-19, 04:44	Veteran's Choice I am glad Trump gave us Veteran's Choice, which Obama signed into law in 2014. I'm not sure how Trump swung that, but he claimed credit 80 times o far and counting. I am thankful he has eviscerated the endangered species act. We have far too many species, and this act is bound to eliminate those standing in the way of oil drilling jobs. Clean environments don't bring in any money. Or they do, through recreation and tourism--things that boost carbon emissions. Far better if the poor and middle class never leave their miserable hovels, wih nowhere to go. So putting a fossil fuel lobbyist in charge of the EPA--classic Trump. A++++! Is it possible to award himself a higher grade? He had the largest inauguration in US history, which apparently began January 20th, 2017. Before the National Day of Patriotic Reverence there was no history. This explains how everything Trump says is true. Highest ratings of any president, including Lincoln, who was never rated.
mo-oneandmore 17-Aug-19, 07:31	The world is approaching economic collapse for reasons that can be strongly attributed to actions by trump and his cronies. Bannon's published plans to change the American way by first destroying America are beginning to bear fruit.
apatzer 17-Aug-19, 07:49	I expect... I expect this thread will have "Crickets chirping" in it, as it relates to our Trump supporting. Brothers and sisters. Just as Zorroloco's post "Leviticus" In fact. The spirit of the law and the underlying condition of the heart. In regards to our fellow man is all throughout the Bible. It is stated many times in many ways. So why crickets? Why silence? (My opinion) The simple fact of the matter is that... (For some) They are not really defending Trump (that's an illusion) they are defending themselves, their views, thoughts or beliefs. Thefore it is done in proxy's. Because of purly emotional reasons. They post for themselves as affirmation and for their own pleasure. Proff of this can be seen by the fact that, when the facts do not bare out in their favor... Crickets and silence, no continued debate, no admission of anything (right or wrong) In this world you have corporations like Walmart, who's employees (Legally qualify for food stamps) meaning they work full time, yet are still poor enough to qualify. So in reality, the Government is subsidising corporations. Walmart the corporation makes 466 dollars per second. Or 1.6 million per hour, and also has the wages of it's workers subsidized by our government. Which is completely fine with Trump who has stated on many occasions " The minimum wage is too high" considering Trump pays the illegal imagrants (undocumented) who came into this country illegally, a mear 4 dollars an hour.I can see how he has come to that conclusion. But I digress.... This is proof positive that employees are not be payed for the value that they actually add to the company. Trump supporters rejoice that X amount of people were "Lifted off of food stamps" (I say that tongue in cheek) many of which were simply denied. When the underlying reason is... Corporate welfare, not paying a living wage, So these corporations,.. 1. pay zero taxes. 2. Have their tax rate slashed by at least 1/³ 3. Get subsidized will millions of tax payer dollars 4. Have more and more laws passed that kill workers rights, ability to sue via class action, or protest. But some poor person, buys a steak or lobster with food stamps and they loose Their minky minds and froth at the mouth.
ptitroque 17-Aug-19, 09:52	Promises non kept -relativity D.T. is not the first nor the last governant who doesn't keep its promises !
apatzer 17-Aug-19, 10:23	ptitroque I agree 💯 with your assessment. However I would like to point out that Trump may be the first to say he has. When he actually hasn't. But remember what you are seeing an hearing isn't actually happening 🤔
archduke_piccolo 17-Aug-19, 17:29	Barack Obama's record... ... was at least as abysmal. He didn't even do such a straightforward simple thing as closing down Guantanamo Bay. Let alone make Wall street and the bankers pay for making a pigs' breakfast of the US economy, for fraud, money laundering, predatory banking and profiteering. Let alone make good on his undeserved Nobel Peace Prize. Let alone rolling back encroaching oil prospecting and exploitation - the utterly insane practice of 'fracking'. Not even Obamacare amount to much in the end. You could say that Barack Obama's performance as President was a match for the British House House of Peers during the Napoleonic Wars: "When Wellington thrashed Bonaparte, As every child can tell, The House of Peers, throughout the war, Did nothing in particular, And did it very well..." (Gilbert and Sullivan, 'Iolanthe') The question is which is worse: doing well nothing in particular; or doing badly something in particular. At times when things urgently need doing, the question is not so easy to answer.
brigadecommander 17-Aug-19, 18:05	Obama was not a King duke all those things you mentioned were derailed by a Republican Congress. Guantanamo, Making the banks pay etc. All of them.He could not dictate these things.He had to get consensus. I thought you understood how the American system worked.Obama was a thousand times better then the creep we have now. Sorry to disagree with you but....As for Obamacare, tell that to the 20.Million Americans that have Health care now due to the AFCA....Good Grief!!!!
apatzer 17-Aug-19, 18:17	Birgadecommander I am not an expert on these topics, bit one statement can not be attributed to opposition from congress. And that is prosecution of the Banks and fraud. That was Eric Holder's decision. That had nothing to do with congress and more to do with Obama having Jamie Diamond as his personal banker. What the Banks did was comparable to treason against the citizens of the United States, period!
apatzer 17-Aug-19, 18:18	Actually It was treason against the people of the world. Because it affected everyone.
apatzer 17-Aug-19, 18:32	archduke_piccolo I didn't fall for the constant speeches of change, the vuage utterances that played upon the desire of the American people at that time. With that said, a couple of things I want to point out. Obama was handed a flaming pile of shit for a country. On the verge of collapse. So much of his energy was directed to fix the broken economy. Trump conversely was handed a country that was in very good condition. So considering what he was handed, the nation did relatively well. There really isn't much comparison. Although I do agree with the contrast that you provided and your statement on Obama.
brigadecommander 17-Aug-19, 18:38	Apatzer Sorry but i don't agree. i don't know where you got that stuff about Erick Holder. But i think it's just a false thing that slipped in. A conspiracy theory if you will. (like all that bull about HRC) But the facts are very different.Please read;www.usnews.com. Also i have a Blockbuster report almost ready on the NRA,that i will post soon. It is important that we sift through the bull to get at the truth.Research is the antidote. Not just passing rumors around.
thumper 17-Aug-19, 18:42	I tend to give Presidents a break when it comes to strict adherents to campaign promises. Once they're in office they're informed of what they can and can't do and what they can and can't say. Some promises made on the campaign trail can be kept, some actually can't be kept for numerous reasons, and others only partially. The big chair is a rude awakening.
apatzer 17-Aug-19, 18:52	Where I got the information. NPR www.npr.org The guardian. www.theguardian.com youtu.be www.politico.com So is it all lies? Fake news? Thumper: I totally agree with what you said about once sitting in the chair.
brigadecommander 17-Aug-19, 19:13	apatzer that does not make it true.Sounds more like a smear to me.Like all the stuff they smeared HRC with.I'm very surprised Ap. I've had enough of this.
apatzer 17-Aug-19, 19:32	I agree that an article or an interview with peers, that have no reason to lie. Doesn't make it true. in and of itself. But when you consider the multiple sources, the interviewers who are not Republicans and have worked with the people they talk about. And the fact that no bankers were prosecuted "only fined" and that was by design. In fact the Banks had already set aside money for those fines . Even before the crisis began. Years prior to the 2008 crisis the FBI warned it was comming. That lends to the credibility of the information considerably. Our Government got it's cut of the action via fines. One mid level banker was prosecuted. The rest got to eat caviar off of Their hookers, get a salery increase and golden parachutes. Then celebrate extravagantly. This would have happened no matter who was president or attorney general. And it will happen again. Just because it sounds like a smear doesn't make it one. It is simply the way the world opperates always has been. Unless we examine things without biases and hold people to account, no matter who they are. We will simply get more of the same. If in the future or if you can provide information to the contrary. I will retract and apologize. Feelings have little to do with truth.
apatzer 17-Aug-19, 19:44	P.S. In fact the person who was flabbergasted that no bankers were criminally charged. Was fired by Trump. He has no ax to grind with the prior administration. Banks have been lobbying and courting our government forever. Bush removed bankruptcy protection, now under Trump. Citizens can no longer file a class action suit, they are forced to arbitrate instead. That way it can all be hush hush. Maybe Holders hands were tied, maybe not. I am definitely not saying they are horrible people. I blame the Banks.
stalhandske 17-Aug-19, 20:41	Barack Obama's record I think, for once, Archduke is mistaken here. Obama may not yet have done much for world peace at the time he was awarded the Nobel, but he had certainly given speeches that gave hope to the world of more peace. With respect to what he actually was able to do, I agree with BC that some of the good things he intended to do were simply blocked by Congress. I also agree with BC that Obamacare was a huge help to a large number of Americans - it is definitely still far from an optimal system, but a great step forward. Obama also made the very important participation of USA in the multinational nuclear deal with Iran, which was a great step towards world peace. Some of his other "good deeds" are listed here: en.wikipedia.org
ptitroque 17-Aug-19, 23:30	Western democracy : a theater ? We tend to polarize everything on personalities - Trump, Obama... But the real power is not in their hands : the top officers, the oligarchy, the banks and the various lobbies control most of the state. The margin of our rulers is limited. In a firm, reorganizing and changing the habits is a long and expensive process. At the scale of one country, especially a big one like the USA with all the counter powers, it takes years and the president is there for 8 years or so. On the other hand, it has advantages : we need some permanence in policy. If the US fundamentally changed their foreign policy with each president that would be a terrible mess.
apatzer 18-Aug-19, 07:59	ptitroque Very good point! Every single human being has both strengths and weaknesses. The only way a weakness can be turned around is to recognize the weakness, define the problem and ask the right questions. If both sides continue to ignore any mention of a weakness or problem with their chosen one's. And invest their emotions into that support or opposition. We will never really solve anything! We will always make comparisons (Which can be good sometimes) It like we don't even want to hear it, when it comes to who we support. Obama is no longer president. I personally think that having a blatant narcissist, who has used his businesses for personal enrichment rather than growing something meaningful ( Look at the growth rate of his companies or the history of his stock value! 6 chapter 11's. It is all about self enrichment because for a narcissist its all about (SELF!) They will say anything, do anything for that end.
lord_shiva 18-Aug-19, 10:07	GB <<... was at least as abysmal. He didn't even do such a straightforward simple thing as closing down Guantanamo Bay.>> Not for lack of effort. He was stymied by congress in closing down Guantanamo Bay. That needed doing, as it costs us more than a million per year per detainee. But conservatives demanded we squander that money out of fear we could not safely house those prisoners in US prisons where they could not be tortured and would enjoy rights like habeus corpus. Obama tried hard to fulfill that promise--I cannot hold him responsible or not keeping it.

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