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softaire 13-Aug-25, 12:11	Apatzer This would mean that the Universe is also alive in some ways, Are we the sum total of our atom's? Or are we more. ...................................................................................... Thanks foe extending the conversation. Those are both good ideas to expand upon. I believe that the universe IS alive, in some way. What way that is is still unknown. The universe could be alive in the sense that it is filled with billions of galaxies that are themselves filled with billions of stars that probably have planets around them, and on some of those planets there is life, with a small portion of those life-planets growing intelligent life. OR... the universe could be alive (in the sense you imply by asking are we the sum total of our atoms) meaning that we each individually contribute, somehow, our consciousness, our intelligence, and our life force to the total consciousness, intelligence, and life-force of the entire universe. The universe is perhaps simply the brain of another being in a much grander universe. It is alive, it grows in size, and it grows in intelligence.
valley_forge 13-Aug-25, 12:34	<< The universe is perhaps simply the brain of another being in a much grander universe. It is alive, it grows in size, and it grows in intelligence. >> How or in what manner does this kind of perspective give any "value" to the individual? Actually, I would posit annominitity like that devalues the individual.
thumper 13-Aug-25, 12:34	Softie So what conclusion does all that lead you to?
softaire 13-Aug-25, 12:49	VF There are scholars who think that the powers of faith (religious) should be unified with the powers of reason (science) such that they ultimately agree and all the ideas and beliefs of one should be explainable and understood to be true by the other, and vice-versa. Ultimately, there is but one common set of truths throughout the universe. The religions of the East will mesh with the religions of the West and the truths of science will explain and merge them. There will be a balance of all things believed by faith and all things found true by science.
softaire 13-Aug-25, 12:52	Thumper When are you going to contribute your personal ideas and thoughts on these subjects?
valley_forge 13-Aug-25, 13:07	Thank You, But I Will Have to Pass on That One! << There are scholars who think that the powers of faith (religious) should be unified with the powers of reason (science) such that they ultimately agree and all the ideas and beliefs of one should be explainable and understood to be true by the other, and vice-versa. >> There's a couple of really big problems with this kind of ideology - unifying religious beliefs and scientific theories. One right out of the gate is that the scientific theories are based purely on the ability of others to confirm their theories through their experiments which are the best way to confirm their theories. So far as I know and understand science there's a general consensus regarding religion that such ethereal considerations are outside of scientific experiments. Is that not true? Secondly, this kind of thinking must absolutely disregard and eliminate individual conscious decision making and freedom of thoughts, wouldn't it? Seems like to me that this is how Totalitarian Governments try to sell their political policies; Don't they say that the "greater good" is more important than the individual freedom which could be sacrificed?
softaire 13-Aug-25, 13:20	VF I am NOT advocating for that particular stance that there is but one truth and that science and faith will ultimately be completely unified. It is a philosophical theory presented by philosophers at various times throughout history. "There's a couple of really big problems with this kind of ideology - unifying religious beliefs and scientific theories." Yup... big problems. However, just because it seems difficult to impossible today does not make it impossible tomorrow. Landing a man on the moon was once considered impossible.
victoriasas 13-Aug-25, 13:26	<<There are scholars who think that the powers of faith (religious) should be unified with the powers of reason (science) such that they ultimately agree and all the ideas and beliefs of one should be explainable and understood to be true by the other, and vice-versa. Ultimately, there is but one common set of truths throughout the universe. The religions of the East will mesh with the religions of the West and the truths of science will explain and merge them. There will be a balance of all things believed by faith and all things found true by science.>> This is unrealistic because science is done by fallible men. God and His ways are infallible. Also, Christianity cannot be “unified” or “meshed” with a religion based on what Jesus Christ Himself said… “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6) I don’t see how someone can believe the Gospel and also believe in a religion. (Christianity is a faith.)
softaire 13-Aug-25, 13:40	Vic Good post, seemingly consistent with your beliefs. "I don’t see how someone can believe the Gospel and also believe in a religion. (Christianity is a faith.)" .................................................................... Here is the AI answer to that: Christianity is both a **religion** and a **faith**, depending on how you define those terms and the context in which you're using them. Here's a breakdown to clarify the distinction and overlap: ### 🏛️ Christianity as a Religion **Institutional Structure**: Christianity has organized institutions (churches, denominations), sacred texts (the Bible), rituals (baptism, communion), and doctrines—hallmarks of a religion. **Global Tradition**: It’s the largest religion in the world, with over 2.3 billion adherents across diverse cultures and theological traditions. **Historical Development**: Christianity emerged from Judaism in the 1st century CE and evolved through councils, schisms, and reformations, like any major world religion. ### 🙏 Christianity as a Faith **Personal Relationship**: Many Christians emphasize that Christianity is not merely a set of rituals or beliefs, but a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. **Grace Over Works**: Unlike some religious systems that stress human effort to reach the divine, Christianity teaches that God reaches out to humanity through grace, especially in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. **Transformational Trust**: Faith in Christianity involves trust in God's promises, transformation of the heart, and living in accordance with Christ’s teachings—not just intellectual assent or ritual participation. ### ⚖️ Religion vs. Faith: A Christian Perspective Some Christian thinkers draw a sharp line between “religion” and “faith”: | **Religion (in this view)** | **Faith (Christian emphasis)** | |-------------------------------|-------------------------------| | Human effort to reach God | God’s initiative to reach humanity | | Rituals and rules | Relationship and grace | | External conformity | Inner transformation | | System of beliefs | Living trust in Christ | This distinction is especially common in evangelical and non-denominational circles, where the phrase “Christianity is not a religion, it’s a relationship” is often used to highlight the uniqueness of Christian faith.
apatzer 13-Aug-25, 13:56	Softaire Jesus is about relationships not religion or religious dogma. As for other religions. I take Paul's attitude. For what have I to do with judging those outside? Do you not judge those who are within the church? God will judge those outside." (1 Corinthians 5:12 NIV)
softaire 13-Aug-25, 14:06	Apatzer Good one... but why direct that to me? I have said nothing about Jesus or his relationships. I have NO dog in that fight. Who are you arguing with here? Or what is your argument/statement?
thumper 13-Aug-25, 14:08	Softie I thought I had already shared my beliefs about this subject. I'll have another go at it. NP To me it's obvious that an unbelievably powerful and wise being we call Yahweh (God) created everything because He wanted to. What a wonderful way to express Himself. I don't know if He did or didn't create flesh and blood life on different planets (what we call ETs or aliens) but I do believe He created life other than what we see here on earth. He said so Himself. Combining everything? I don't think that's such a good idea. Constantine already tried that a few years back. By law he merged and combine all religions, philosophies and governments into one... all under his power and control of course.
softaire 13-Aug-25, 14:20	Thumper "I thought I had already shared my beliefs about this subject" ..................................................................................... Thanks for weighing in on this. And, you may have already done so. I have a disease that tends to make me forget things. It's called "Early OnSet Old Age Forgetfulness". I think I have stage 4. Sorry, but I don't understand what you mean by "By law he merged and combine all religions, philosophies and governments into one... all under his power and control of course." Who is "He"? ... God (Yahweh)? What law? ... His Law to the Jews? to who??? Applies to? ... Everyone? Jews? Christians? Sorry... still trying to see what means what.
thumper 13-Aug-25, 15:05	Softie I'm dealing with a slight computer problem so I'm currently limited in how I can communicate or respond. I currently can't link or copy-paste info or supporting data. Sorry, I'll get that fixed. You can take a look at Constantine's Sunday Law (AD 321) as a starter. Even so, I don't want to go too far afield from the OP subject. I think it interesting.
victoriasas 13-Aug-25, 15:16	@Softaire I don’t know if you’re a parent (I suspect you probably are) but would an earthly father disown his child because he or she made a mistake? My parents didn’t disown me and my siblings when we were growing up, and I can only imagine how their love for us pales in comparison to God’s love for us. And most earthly parents want a relationship with their kids. I don’t think earthly parents view their role as simply providing a roof over their kids’ heads and food on the table. So if earthly parents want to provide for their kids and want a relationship with them, why should/would God be any different? Yes, he knows our limitations and our nature, which is why He made salvation so easy. Salvation is really nothing more than acknowledging… • You’ve sinned (broken God’s moral law) at least once in your life. • You aren’t worthy of being in God’s presence after physical death without your sins being forgiven because God is both holy and just. • Sins have always been forgiven by God through a substitutionary blood sacrifice (Leviticus 17:11,) which in the New Testament is Jesus Christ. ‘ Believing in Jesus Christ – accepting Him as your Saviour – is how one gets his sins forgiven. It’s honestly pretty simple. The only reasons to reject the above, in my view, is to believe you haven’t sinned, which is absurd; that you have the right to be in God’s presence and with God for eternity with a boatload of unforgiven sins; and you (not God) decide the conditions under which you enter God’s home (Heaven) and are reconciled to Him. Those reasons are centered on man’s ego and pride, which are the two things that imo keep most men on the broad way to destruction and eternal condemnation.
softaire 13-Aug-25, 15:22	Where NASA Is Actively Searching for Life in the Solar System This lasts about 17 minutes and is a good summary of the many places in OUR own solar system where scientists have said there is a good possibility of existing life. Life has not YET been proven to exist anywhere else; however, the many reasonable possibilities for this one, lonely star to harbour so many possibilities is why I believe that life is common throughout the universe. Since there is intelligence on this one planet, in this one solar system, that (to me) indicates that the universe prefers intelligent life to develop. Where NASA Is Actively Searching for Life in the Solar System www.msn.com
softaire 13-Aug-25, 15:27	Vic Thanks for the conversation and your POV. I am not sure how to respond as I don't see how your reply corresponds to anything I have posted. I don't think that I have advocated for anything pro or con having to do with your post. Let me know if I am missing something here... certainly is possible.
victoriasas 13-Aug-25, 15:31	@Softaire I was assuming the main point behind your post was how to be reconciled to God. My apologies if your point was something else. IMO, being reconciled to God should be everyone’s primary concern before physically dying – not as a theoretical exercise but as something that has eternal consequences.
apatzer 13-Aug-25, 15:33	Softaire I would like to make a slight change of verbiage. I was sharing it with you in case you didn't know. I'm not talking at you. So to speak. Too often people fell like they are being preached to. That's not what I am doing. Your free will is a precious thing/ gift.
softaire 13-Aug-25, 15:48	Apatzer Thanks for your explanation. You need to remember that I am easily confused and didn't recognize that as sharing information. I incorrectly thought that you were correcting me for some oversight or misstatement... all certainly possible.
softaire 13-Aug-25, 16:07	Vic I don't really have any specific points to make, other than to have a conversation(s) with and about the universe, life, God or gods, religions, and our various views about them. I find the many different views and possibilities all pretty interesting. What I find dismaying is the confrontations I feel or the antagonisms I sense when I ask a question that you (meaning any of you) seem to think is somehow demeaning, denigrating, or insulting to your beliefs. We can't have a conversation unless someone presents a question or possibility that is somewhat or somehow opposed by someone else. If I don't ask a question or pose a scenario that you do not find challenging, or you do not oppose, there will be no conversation. That's pretty boring and non-educational. The topic needs to generate some passion, some excitement, some interest. That's why I asked, the other day, "do we care?" Do we care enough in these threads to understand what the topic is, why was a question asked, What is the question, and do we want to answer it? If we do want to answer it, how should we answer it? So any point that I may have is to stir up a conversation because the different answers do shed light on the topic and are usually interesting and/or educational. btw... I don't remember asking anything about salvation or being reconciled to God.
victoriasas 13-Aug-25, 16:45	<<btw... I don't remember asking anything about salvation or being reconciled to God.>> True, nor did I say you did. Those are of primary importance from my point of view, not yours.
victoriasas 13-Aug-25, 16:49	<<What I find dismaying is the confrontations I feel or the antagonisms I sense when I ask a question that you (meaning any of you) seem to think is somehow demeaning, denigrating, or insulting to your beliefs.>> When you misrepresent Christianity, I find that offensive. You’re free not to believe Christianity but you’re not free to say it’s something that it’s not.
softaire 13-Aug-25, 17:46	Vic The fact that you cannot accept that all civilizations, religions, and cultures have adopted portions of the myths, stories, legends, religions and histories of the civilizations that came before them into their own new, enhanced civilizations does NOT mean that I have misrepresented Christianity. That is so insulting, juvenile, and uneducated as to be almost unbelievable. But, you have said as much time and time again. You neither understand the concept of civilization nor Christianity as a religion. You only understand the concept of Christianity as a faith. Please stop being so close-minded and obstinate. Try opening your mind to something new to you.
victoriasas 13-Aug-25, 20:36	@softaire You have indeed misrepresented Christianity. Christianity is based upon the Bible, which dates to 2,000+ years ago. You can (and obviously do) repeat your tired mantra of “myths, stories, legends” etc., but Christianity *today* is based upon the same beliefs that existed 2,000 years ago and is based *today* around the world upon those same beliefs. You falsely claimed Christianity was a man-made construct, when it was actually founded upon an act of God, and when shown that, you retreated into silence after an insulting rant against me – much the same as I suspect you’re doing here. You apparently think you know all about Christianity without reading the Bible and without asking God to enlighten you. Is reading an atheist blog all the “education” you think you need?
softaire 13-Aug-25, 21:38	Vic I even gave you (as an example) a list of the "Flood Stories" from several civilizations and religions that preceded Christianity that demonstrate how stories were adopted by the following civilizations and religions. HOW did you miss that? Or, are you saying that they did not flow into the myths and stories of the following civilization? Each new civilization simply created their own new Flood Story? There was NO adopting from the previous? Christianity, like all religions, is a man-made construct. It is not my problem that you do not understand what that means. Christianity talks about how Christianity works... how to act, what to believe, how to pray, how to sacrifice, what holidays to observe etc. etc. Christianity is controlled by humans.
victoriasas 13-Aug-25, 22:06	What in your view are the foundational beliefs of Christianity? How does someone become a Christian? I think by answering those questions (accurately) you can understand why Christianity is not a man-made construct.
victoriasas 13-Aug-25, 22:53	BTW, I think your view of the flood seems based on the belief that a great flood (as described in the Bible) never happened, that somebody (or group of somebodys) invented a story about a great flood a long time ago and that subsequent civilizations embellished upon it. But if a great flood (as described in the Bible) actually *did* happen, it makes sense that different civilizations created and/or embellished their own stories about it and why it happened. Did you know scientists have found evidence of marine fossils on the tops of mountains? How do you think they got there? The scientific explanation is imo not nearly as convincing as attributing their presence to a great flood in antiquity.
victoriasas 13-Aug-25, 23:00	One other thing… The flood story is from Genesis, the first book of the Torah and Old Testament, which predate Christianity by some 1,500 years.
dmaestro 14-Aug-25, 01:20	Andrew Plate movements and Uplift. Both the Alps and Himalayas for example are created by plate movement which buckles and uplifts former marine land. If you have two nested Spheres the 5 mile difference in the floods if all mountains are covered is an immense amount of water far exceeding the current ocean volume, where did it go, with massive effect on the earths rotation. Nor does it address the ice age when we know major floods occurred. We now know the Earth is over 4B years old and the larger Earth and Moon was created by an early collision with a Mars sized planet.
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