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From	Message
apatzer 18-Aug-25, 16:56	Softaire Thank you 😊
softaire 21-Aug-25, 12:43	How NASA is Hunting for Our Next Home (Earth 2.0) Searching for another Earth and extraterrestrial life. (~17 minutes) Very interesting. www.msn.com
valley_forge 22-Aug-25, 13:05	"What Christian Scientists Share That Secular Scientists Won't About Space " www.youtube.com (15:49)
softaire 22-Aug-25, 13:43	VF Really nice video. Thanks. It just goes to show that science and theology can get along. Even so, I'll wager that those guys trusted the science to get them home rather than their prayers.
valley_forge 22-Aug-25, 14:17	<< Even so, I'll wager that those guys trusted the science to get them home rather than their prayers. >> Softaire, I bet if you watch and listen to this video again, you'll find no comments which even began to suggest their prayers helped them out in their missions. Especially, when you hear that some of them didn't believe until after they had completed their missions. Oh, yeah 😂
softaire 23-Aug-25, 06:20	Harvard scientist 'proves God is real' using maths formula Short article, interesting video. This is an article that basically says we exist in one of many random universes and are here to observe it because we are lucky, or more likely, we are in a universe that was specifically created such that ALL the criteria needed for this particular universe to exist and support life was perfectly balanced. The video discusses how the various levels of dark energy allowing this were so very unlikely to occur that it must have been intentionally created that way. www.msn.com
valley_forge 23-Aug-25, 10:36	Real Life Scientists Have Proven Only Makes Sense With God Included "Former Atheist Makes the Case for Angels, Demons & the Soul" www.youtube.com (1:23)
softaire 24-Aug-25, 15:44	Scientists discover immortal cells in lab Science is getting closer and closer to finding ways to extend life spans, regenerate the body and mind, and improve the quality of life. The questions are HOW FAR should we go in these quests? What are the concerns about extending life artificially beyond the natural limits? Does God have a say in our ability to extend life, regenerate body parts, enhance the brain? What does our religions say about that? If we actually are able to attain immortality, should we do it? What does Christianity say about that? www.msn.com
softaire 25-Aug-25, 22:25	Immortality Wow. I thought people would jump at the chance to discuss the merits for or against the possibility of science being able to extend life indefinitely. The prospect of indefinite life extension—whether through biotechnology, genetic engineering, or digital consciousness—raises profound ethical questions that touch on justice, identity, and the very meaning of being human. with religious consequences. Some possible concerns about immortality are: ## ⚖️ Ethical Considerations of Indefinite Life Extension ### 1. **Justice and Access** - **Who gets to live forever?** If life extension technologies are expensive or limited, they could exacerbate existing inequalities, creating a class of “immortals” with disproportionate power and privilege. - **Global disparities**: Wealthier nations or individuals may monopolize access, deepening global health and resource divides. ### 2. **Resource Scarcity** - **Population pressure**: If people stop dying, Earth’s resources—food, water, energy—could be strained, especially without corresponding advances in sustainability. - **Environmental ethics**: Prolonging life may conflict with ecological balance and intergenerational justice. ### 3. **Social and Economic Disruption** - **Workforce stagnation**: If older generations never retire, younger people may struggle to find employment or leadership roles. - **Inheritance and wealth concentration**: Long-lived individuals could accumulate vast wealth and influence, challenging democratic and economic systems. ### 4. **Psychological and Existential Impacts** - **Meaning of life**: Mortality gives urgency and depth to human experience. Without it, people may face existential ennui or loss of purpose. - **Mental health**: Living for centuries could lead to psychological fatigue, identity crises, or social isolation. ### 5. **Ethical Identity and Human Nature** - **Are we still human?** Radical life extension may involve merging with machines or altering biology so profoundly that it challenges our concept of humanity. - **Playing God?** Some argue that intervening in the natural limits of life crosses moral boundaries or violates religious principles. ### 6. **Governance and Regulation** - **Policy vacuum**: Current legal and ethical frameworks are ill-equipped to handle the implications of indefinite life. - **Need for stewardship**: Scholars advocate for principled, inclusive governance to guide development and use of life-extending technologies responsibly. ### 7. ** Religious Concerns ** Does God have a say in our ability to extend life, regenerate body parts, enhance the brain? If we actually are able to attain immortality, should we do it? What does Christianity say about that?
dmaestro 26-Aug-25, 00:54	Life extension is possible but isn’t immortality. Christianity is concerned with spiritual immortality. www.bible.com
apatzer 26-Aug-25, 05:09	Sorry, I've been really busy. From what I can gather it is one type of cell under strict lavatory conditions. It's a long way from immortality, they have yet to begin really studying it yet
softaire 26-Aug-25, 06:59	Ray Kurzweil has predicted that there will be advancements in AI, Robotics, Nanotechnology, Virtual Reality, miniaturization, biology and all the associated technologies such that we will first be able to replace body parts and functions, then improve longevity and reduce disease, build machines that mimic people and intelligence, and finally to upload the human mind into computers for long term "life" or extend human life almost forever. It seems that since he wrote "The Singularity is Near", science has indeed made great advances in those areas. Yes, finding and using the Immortal cells is a long way from those advanced goals, but we are getting closer every day with discovery after discovery. We should be discussing these advancements and preparing for the moral dilemmas that are coming,,, what ethical and real boundaries will we face? What should we and what can we do about them? What are they? There are many discussions and questions about any of the areas listed above. Any could be very interesting. Since Christianity is such a strongly held belief for most people in this club, I have added God questions. For example, when mankind is able to create robots that mimic mankind and can fool real people into believing that they are real people (but are still machines), will God be able to commune with them and make them "alive"? Will machines (robots) ever be able to feel desires, emotions, anger, love? Could God allow or cause that?
thumper 26-Aug-25, 07:15	Deleted by thumper on 26-Aug-25, 07:16.
thumper 26-Aug-25, 07:15	Softie That brings up several questions to consider. Would that immortality mean not dying from old age or disease but could still die of starvation or homicidal violence or a "Hold my beer" moment? Would their bodies be as a fit 25 year old or would they survive in a Jerry Nadler type body for aeons? Also, criminal incarceration would take on a whole new meaning for those sentenced to life without parole. We already have a template for exceedingly long lived people and the nature of their world. As it turned out, they weren't immortal...
thumper 26-Aug-25, 07:30	www.youtube.com Highlander - The Gathering 48:47
softaire 26-Aug-25, 09:18	Thumper Those are some great questions too. They are a little bit more practical for society to think about and answer, more immediately than the others. Do you, or anyone else, have any thoughts or opinions about them or the other "larger" questions? When I read these new theories about long life, enhanced life, etc. I always imagine being in my 30 year old body, healthy, and mentally enhanced. I only think of myself as being more healthy, stronger, and thinking quicker, more deeply, and with information available from any source, able to retain it and use it. I do not see me hurting mentally or physically. That is the goal of the science as I understand it. As you bring up, the legal system would certainly need modifications and adjustments. Another area of criminal law might need to be about robots... can we abuse them, are they slaves, do they have feelings. Could they ever be prosecuted for harming humans whether accidentally or on purpose? How could they or should they ever be punished? Life insurance policies for humans probably would need adjustments too. We may not get to immortality but we are getting closer and closer to incremental enhancements. These questions should be anticipated and possible scenarios discussed so that we aren't in a frenzy when the breakthroughs occur.
thumper 26-Aug-25, 10:39	Softie <Life insurance policies for humans probably would need adjustments too.> LOL!! That was a good one.
valley_forge 26-Aug-25, 10:43	Mankind has tried skirting and minimizing the full depth of God’s curse on mankind in Genesis since Adam’s disobedience in the Garden of Eden. Dying and separation from all we understand life to be is a frightening prospect. Especially if that separation leads to an eternal judgment where we’re separated from God for all of eternity with an awareness of that separation for eternity. Dreaming of an eternity of life with all of the accruements of good health, purpose and social interaction with others are the merely the substance of utopian dreams, however. Facts are what facts are, and the facts of our existence have only been explained through an understanding of the Biblical narrative, without which nothing science or philosophies or false religions have ever been able to satisfy in the significant manner as has the Bible. Of course, the evolutionary theory has offered the only unbiblical narrative we have but it is limited of course. The biblical narrative presents the "curse" following Adam and Eve's disobedience as the introduction of death into the human experience, marking a fundamental change from their original state. According to Genesis 3, God declared to Adam, "For dust you are and to dust you will return," establishing physical death as a direct consequence of sin. This curse is understood as a judicial sentence upon humanity, meaning that death was not a natural part of creation before the Fall but was introduced as a punishment for disobedience. The text implies that Adam and Eve were created with the potential for eternal life, sustained by the "tree of life," but their sin severed this connection, making physical death inevitable "Did Death of Any Kind Exist Before the Fall?" What the Bible Says About the Origin of Death and Suffering answersresearchjournal.org "Did God Create a World Full of Death?" answersingenesis.org "Did Death Occur Before the Fall?" Humans appear very late in the history of life. The fossil record clearly shows that many creatures died before humans appeared. How does this impact the Fall? biologos.org
valley_forge 26-Aug-25, 10:47	"Quality of Life" is a Big Concern Regarding Extending Life Spans "Listening to public concerns about human life extension" pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov "Americans are wary of enhancements that could enable them to live longer and stronger" www.pewresearch.org "Living too " pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
thumper 26-Aug-25, 11:28	The expected pre-flood life expectancy of a physically healthy human was about 900 years. Not immortal just long-lived, healthy and robust. Today our maximum longevity is about 120 years with most of that time being spent in a rapidly deteriorating body with questionable mental capacity.
apatzer 26-Aug-25, 12:47	Thumper 11:28 Very true... This is the reason. Genesis 6:3 says: "Then the LORD said, 'My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.'" (NIV) Other translations use phrases like "My Spirit shall not always strive with man" (KJV) and "My Spirit shall not abide in man forever" (ESV) You are no more your body, than you are you clothes and a very large portion of your body isn't even human.
apatzer 26-Aug-25, 12:54	Ironically We all have access to immortality, we know the way. Can you imagine wearing the same exact winter coat for 80 years? Without having any other winter coat?
softaire 30-Aug-25, 18:03	Ironically We all have access to immortality... According to this, we are on the precipice of developing a new synthetic lifeform that has the potential for eliminating life on earth. Can we stop it? Should we stop it? What if it turns out to be beneficial? Does anyone care? Will God stop it or allow it to proceed? Has this all been preplanned? .................................................................................................. Scientist Warns That New Synthetic Lifeform Could Spell Doom for Humankind www.msn.com
valley_forge 30-Aug-25, 19:02	"SBU Professor, Historian, Puts “Doomsday” Scenarios in Perspective" www.bnl.gov
apatzer 30-Aug-25, 20:42	Softaire It is decades away and it would replace not eliminate. If its not that , that gets us. it will be Humans and science have identified several ways that could potentially wipe out all life on Earth, though most experts agree that completely eradicating all forms of life is extremely difficult due to the resilience of microorganisms and deep biosphere extremophiles. One major threat caused by humans is a global nuclear war, which could trigger a nuclear winter, drastically cooling the planet, destroying crops, collapsing food chains, and causing massive die-offs. However, some microbial life would likely survive in deep oceans or underground, making total sterilization unlikely. Another theoretical human-caused threat involves self-replicating nanotechnology, sometimes called “gray goo,” where nanobots could disassemble organic material on a massive scale. Still, even in this extreme scenario, some extremophile organisms might persist. Environmental collapse resulting from severe runaway climate change, pollution, and habitat destruction could drive many species to extinction and render large parts of Earth uninhabitable for complex life forms. Yet, many microbes and extremophiles could still endure such changes. Engineered bioweapons designed to wipe out most plants and animals are also theoretically possible, though the incredible diversity and resilience of life forms would probably prevent complete eradication. Beyond human causes, cosmic and scientific mechanisms could threaten life on Earth. For example, a massive asteroid or comet impact could boil oceans, vaporize the atmosphere, or trigger years of darkness, devastating surface life. Nevertheless, deep biosphere life may survive such events. Other natural cosmic threats include a nearby supernova or gamma-ray burst that could strip away the ozone layer and irradiate the surface, with some life surviving underwater or underground. More speculative scenarios involve artificial black holes or physics experiments gone wrong, which theoretically might consume the Earth, though this remains beyond current technology. A matter-antimatter explosion of sufficient scale could vaporize the entire planet, but this is currently far beyond human capability. Absolute sterilization of the planet, such as by completely destroying or vaporizing it by collision with a planet-sized object, is considered almost impossible and lies in the realm of extreme science fiction. There are also theoretical and speculative threats like vacuum decay—a sudden quantum event that would destroy all matter instantaneously everywhere in the universe—although this is beyond any human control and purely theoretical at this point. Hypothetical alien invasions with technology capable of sterilizing Earth are popular in speculation but have no scientific basis. Lastly, natural astrophysical processes like the Sun’s evolution will eventually boil Earth’s oceans and end all life, but this will occur on a timescale of about a billion years. On even longer, cosmic timescales, phenomena like the heat death or big rip of the universe will lead to the decay of all life, but these events are trillions of years in the future. There could be an unforeseen event that triggers a tipping point in our rapidly deteriorating and volatile climate system. For example, the melting of permafrost releasing millions of metric tons of methane into the atmosphere. Although it might seem unlikely, the truth is—it's already happening. The rapid melting of Arctic permafrost is indeed a significant and accelerating driver of climate change, releasing millions of metric tons of methane—a highly potent greenhouse gas—into the atmosphere. Research shows that Arctic warming has expanded wetlands and increased surface water, which enhances methane emissions from biological decomposition of organic material. These emissions contribute to a vicious feedback loop where methane release accelerates global warming, which in turn causes more permafrost to thaw and release even more greenhouse gases. Scientists have observed that methane emissions from thawing permafrost are not only occurring during the summer but continue significantly through winter, contradicting previous beliefs that cold seasons would curb emissions. Microbial activity beneath frozen soil layers allows methane to accumulate and escape year-round, thereby intensifying the feedback loop. Additionally, recent studies suggest some models may underestimate the scale of methane emissions from thawing permafrost because emissions also come from frozen soil areas outside wetlands, which were not fully accounted for before. Current data estimates that over 30% to 40% of Arctic permafrost regions have become net sources of carbon emissions, including both CO2 and methane, and this trend shows no signs of slowing. The release of greenhouse gases from warming permafrost threatens to overwhelm natural carbon sinks on Earth, pushing the climate system closer to dangerous tipping points. The concept of a “compost bomb” instability encapsulates the fear that once thawing starts in earnest, it could lead to runaway emissions and uncontrollable warming, reinforcing how critical it is to address human-induced climate change urgently. But we won't! If scientists announced that a 30 mile wide comet was going to hit earth in 6 months, the oil companies would rasie thier prices to make as much profit as possible before it hits.
softaire 30-Aug-25, 23:07	Apatzer Thanks for your reassuring, comforting, and encouraging post. It gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling so that I will sleep good tonight.
valley_forge 31-Aug-25, 07:12	In response to Apatzer's post @ 30-Aug-25, 20:42 Surely, that list above is ennermerated tongue in cheek because as a child of the Lord Jesus Christ 🙏 you KNOW that you are in the palm of God's hand and nothing apart from His will can harm you! John 10:28 / 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
softaire 31-Aug-25, 07:24	VF That, of course, may be true IF there is a God or gods. Right? It all falls apart if you are wrong about God. Without God, Apatzer is right about all of that.
valley_forge 31-Aug-25, 08:01	"IF" God . . . In response to Softaire's post @ 31-Aug-25, 07:24 Have you checked out my latest post over on the Seeing the Supernatural thread? Solid and irrefutable evidence exists for why God is real - for anyone willing to honestly look at it, sir. Are you focused on WHY you have doubts, and on the inconsistencies and failures of His believers? How many perfect people do you know?
apatzer 31-Aug-25, 08:03	Softaire 23:07 Lol, that made me smile. I'm sorry about that. I really don't put too much weight on those things. We have to live life while we can and do our best to be a better Version of ourselves. Not comparing ourselves to anything other than who we use to be. Can't say that I live a life completely free of fear. But I'm close to it and try very hard to remind myself of the things that really matter when fear rears it's ugly head.
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