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classica 29-Aug-25, 05:11	I saw the livestream of NYC. It was mayhem. We really needed troops on the ground then.
valley_forge 29-Aug-25, 07:11	In response to Classica's post @ 29-Aug-25, 05:11 Sir, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out when you see armed forces in Army uniforms on the street where people are rioting and looting that we had better NOT get a closer look 😜! And since when did "peaceful protesters" helped their cause by rampaging through Walmarts and the Academy sports stores stealing merchandise and destroying property? Huh, Apatzer, apparently by your last few posts you have not thought about it much?
thumper 29-Aug-25, 07:40	Imagine you're trying to quickly close up your small 2nd generation local mom and pop shop before the rioters come down your block when 4 men come running up. One of them passionately tells you that you should be outraged about the injustice. Another starts screaming profanities and threats at you about the injustice. The third hits you in the back of the head with a skateboard then proceeds to curb stomp you when you go down then pulls out a molotive cocktail, lights it and throws it thru your business window. The fourth guy gleefully laughs and cheers the third guy on. According to some, those men are 'mostly peaceful' we're told because technically only one of them physically attacked you and destroyed your family's livelihood. The other three only provided distraction, cover and support...
classica 29-Aug-25, 08:17	I can hardly wait for the troops to arrive in NYC.
apatzer 29-Aug-25, 08:51	I can understand someone bulking at that terminology especially if they were the victim of crime. It's perfectly understandable. And I wouldn't even have this debate with someone who suffered loss due to the actions of animals. I would be saying I'm sorry for your loss. Because human interaction is situational. And everyone has an opinion. But please if you feel that a protest involving 15-26 million people wasn't mostly peaceful. Please show how that description is incorrect. I have offered why it is and so far I just see people with opinions running their mouths as people do, without much in the way of proving their opinions. So If I am in error, and you have read and understand my argument on accurate information and description. Then by all means debate me. Thanks,
apatzer 29-Aug-25, 08:56	Classica That is something people shouldn't wish for unless the police department ask for help to deal with civil unrest. The presence and deployment of armed U.S. troops in suburban areas within the United States is subject to specific legal and policy constraints. Under normal circumstances, the Posse Comitatus Act restricts the use of federal troops in civilian law enforcement except under certain exceptions. Military troops, including the National Guard, can be deployed domestically in suburban or other areas during emergencies, such as riots, natural disasters, or when invoked by the Insurrection Act, but such deployments are tightly controlled and typically require presidential or state authority. Currently, an expanded military presence is notably seen at the southern U.S. border where militarized zones have been established under the authority of a national emergency declaration. Troops patrol these zones, which may include suburban or border communities, with roles including immigration enforcement support, detention operations, and interdiction. These deployments are authorized under specific executive directives and legal frameworks distinct from general suburban area deployments. In summary, armed U.S. troops can be in suburban areas during declared emergencies, under state National Guard activation, or specific federal authorizations like the Insurrection Act, but otherwise, their presence is restricted by law including the Posse Comitatus Act. Recent expansions in military roles have been focused primarily on border zones and certain targeted cities, often under emergency or presidential directives. If more specific or current policies about troop presence in suburban areas within particular states or contexts are needed, further detailed documents or official guidelines can be reviewed for precise regulations, time limits, and authorized activities . We are on our way out as a country , due to conspiracy, idiocy and ignorance of the constitution and laws.
classica 29-Aug-25, 09:23	I completely support following the letter of the law, and I believe troops [domestic law enforcement, National Guard, or even the military] will arrive in NYC before July 2026. I am sure the majority of NY'ers will welcome them. We are swiftly approaching 8 NYC WC games and the 250th 7/4.
valley_forge 29-Aug-25, 09:53	In response to Apatzer's post @ 29-Aug-25, 08:51 Oh, I think I get it, Robert. << a protest involving 15-26 million people >> certainly has good cause to be fired up and adamant about the Gov’t listening to their grievances. That our Gov’t allows gatherings of like minded people to stick one of the appendages of the right hand up into the face of police and at Gov’t officials because they are in disagreement with their political policies are a fundamental right for all Americans. That’s all far out, solid and right on! However, if those 15-26 million protestors want to see real change we have elections and townhall meetings, school board meetings and other such avenues for making LEGAL changes to what those 15-26 million citizens want to see. It’s called American Republic representative government. We make changes through the ballot box or through writing letters to the local editor, TV broadcasting station and by voting. If any of those 15-26 million disgruntled protestors go outside these lines then all bets are off, and law enforcement is tasked with protecting the other 165-270 million Americans who are willing to abide their time until the next Election. Usually this works pretty good, I’d sat.
valley_forge 29-Aug-25, 10:18	God be with you during . . . this difficult time. "8.29.25: Prayer attacked, Now is the Time, God be with you PATRIOT, Pray!" rumble.com
thumper 29-Aug-25, 12:31	Apatzer I've already conceded that using the term 'mostly peaceful' is technically correct. That's what you're going with? To me that's just a calculated attempt to deflect. If a mob comes at you and they cheer on their fellows to beat you to a bloody pulp they're mostly peaceful with just a few 'bad actors', right? Consider this. Aiding and abetting someone committing a crime is in fact a crime. Accessory to a crime is in fact a crime. The 'peaceful' getaway driver and the 'peaceful' lookout are charged with the same crimes as the violent bank robber with a gun. Because only 1/3 of their crew committed violence they're mostly peaceful people just making a bank withdraw and the only 'crime' was just an overdraw? Is an angry and violent mob aggressively approaching and surrounding someone considered an act of physical intimidation and a threat of violence? The answer is yes, they're both crimes. Mob Mentality & The Psychology of Crowd Behavior www.nesshistory.org
apatzer 29-Aug-25, 13:03	Thumper Thanks for that considerate well worded post. I do agree with everything that you have said. I want to point out that I agree in the context you provided in your analogy. Which is very good and true. With that said , I also understand there are tribal assumptions at work here also and tribalism is deeply ingraned in the psychology of all of us and has been. However I do see where you’re coming from, and you’ve made some strong points about violence and accountability. But I think the way you’re using the phrase “mostly peaceful” as just a way to dodge the reality of what happened doesn’t quite fit. It’s true the phrase can feel like a soft way to talk about really serious stuff, but it actually describes that most people at the protests weren’t involved in violence, even though some were. Comparing the protests to a mob that all shares blame doesn’t quite work either—most protesters were there peacefully, without any intention to harm or break the law. It’s a big crowd with different people doing different things, not a single group acting together on violence. Also, using language like “beating you to a bloody pulp” really fires up emotions and can make it harder to have a calm conversation. Sure, mob mentality is a real thing, but lots of people stayed peaceful despite those few bad actors. So the way you’re seeing it feels a bit one-sided, mixing facts with frustration and politics. I think it’s better for us to remember the full picture and not paint everyone with the same brushes. I don't think it's accurate to say that all the other (the vast majority of protesters) were in collusion with the violent ones. Or helping them. Perhaps some. So should we refer to all of them in the same way as the actions of the least of them?
apatzer 29-Aug-25, 13:06	VF They weren't protesting because of political ideology. They were protesting because a police officer put his knee into George Floyd's neck and kept it there for 9 minutes . While he showed the crowd what a bad ass unaccountable person he was. It doesn't take that long to take someone who is already handcuffed into custody. So if it had been a woman oh sorry a white woman. How would you have felt about it then.
classica 29-Aug-25, 13:16	COV vax trial in the Netherlands update [Gates and big pharma] www.youtube.com More: sashalatypova.substack.com
valley_forge 29-Aug-25, 13:28	In response to Apatzer's psot @ 29-Aug-25, 13:06 The dynamics remain the same; What good is it going to do to destroy property and loot stores? Who’s going to be sympathetic towards rioters and looters? How are laws going to be changed to ensure this crime by ONE BAD COP is not repeated?
classica 29-Aug-25, 13:46	They defunded the police and let the criminals go free with no bail. It could be that the BLM movement was a well funded psyOp. Gee wiz. where did all those pallets of bricks come from? Follow the $.
thumper 29-Aug-25, 13:47	Apatzer What were all those people who were standing around watching while Floyd died doing? Nothing. Later they looted and firebombed their local clothing and grocery stores. Such honorable bravery to protest so. What good came from all that?
classica 29-Aug-25, 13:49	A lot of people got free stuff.
apatzer 29-Aug-25, 15:20	Thumper 13:47 Here if this video isn't good. I'm sure that you could find a better one. What's your definition of nothing sir? They did what was within their legal rights to do considering the situation. Which was film and plead with the officer to stop. youtu.be This was well before Jan 6th. Tho, perhaps next time they will be encouraged by that fine example and actually move into vigilante territory. How excellent 👌
apatzer 29-Aug-25, 15:23	How quickly the conversation devolves into what about is some some hypotheticals.
thumper 29-Aug-25, 15:40	Apatzer I ask again, what good came out of all of that violence and destruction? You got anything? The best I can come up with is that police have gone to a much more widespread use of body cams.
apatzer 29-Aug-25, 15:53	Thumper Einstein once remarked. If I had an hour to live, I would spend the first 45 minutes finding the right question. After that the answer would be easy. You sir are asking a skewed question. The question should be what good came form the nation wide protest of 15-26 million people. This strange focus on violence is very selective, ya get to turn a blind eye when it's violence of a different kind. But that's to be expected when we have a mendacious, felonious, libertine as commander and standard bearer? Have the standards for behavior went up or down ya think? when you only focus on the violence, you’re ignoring the much bigger picture. The protests were overwhelmingly peaceful and they sparked concrete changes across the country. In Minneapolis, where George Floyd was killed, the city council voted to overhaul the police department and immediately banned chokeholds. Denver required officers to intervene if they see another officer using excessive force, and Los Angeles cut funding from its police budget to reinvest in community programs. In New York, lawmakers repealed a decades-old law known as “50-a” that kept police disciplinary records hidden from the public. Other states passed new restrictions on the use of force and strengthened rules around body cameras and public accountability. Even at the federal level, the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act—though it stalled in the Senate—became the first major policing reform bill in years to gain real momentum, showing how much pressure the protests put on lawmakers. At the same time, corporations and institutions could no longer stay silent. Companies pledged billions toward racial equity initiatives, and even the NFL had to reverse its stance on protest in sports, admitting it had been wrong to punish players for kneeling. Those shifts, along with the widespread public support for reform shown in polls, reflected a national change in awareness. No one is saying the looting or vandalism was positive, but to pretend that nothing good came from the movement is simply ignoring reality. The fact is that laws were changed, policies were reformed, and the national conversation around racial justice moved forward in a way that wouldn’t have happened without millions of people taking to the streets. That’s the bigger story, and it matters far more than the small fraction of unrest you want to point to. That's about all I got. So in the immortal words of Softaire, I don't see anyone proposing Ideas or ways to make it better? Any ideas?
classica 29-Aug-25, 16:32	In the case of George Floyd, it comes down to the training - but instead of stopping there, they went whole hog on defunding the police and cashless bail In some areas it has virtually legalized shoplifting. Many saw this coming. Let's hope we get back to a civil society before the World Cup Games.
apatzer 29-Aug-25, 16:57	Classica Thank you for your opinions but I must say, Your reply lumps several complicated issues together in a way that doesn’t really reflect what happened after George Floyd’s murder. The nationwide protests in 2020 weren’t just about focusing on police training. Also police are already underpaid IMHO they can't be expected to be counselors, mental health evaluators or even negotiators. We need other services because many people that have mental health problems have very poor outcomes when it comes to police that's why police keeping each other accountable needs to happen and we need other services for these people there is that mental health crisis in America. But the protests were mainly about long-standing frustration with police accountability and systemic bias. While the phrase “defund the police” became a rallying cry, in reality very few cities actually defunded their police departments in any meaningful way — most police budgets stayed the same or even grew. In places where changes were attempted, they usually involved shifting modest amounts of funding toward social services, mental health crisis response, and community programs because many people believed not every emergency needed an armed officer. The idea wasn’t to abolish police, but to address root issues that fuel constant cycles of crime and confrontation. The connection you’re trying to make to cashless bail and shoplifting also isn’t supported by facts. Bail reform was meant to stop people from sitting in jail for weeks or months just because they were poor and couldn’t pay, not to allow crime to flourish. Studies in places like New Jersey and New York showed that eliminating cash bail for nonviolent offenses did not trigger runaway crime. As for shoplifting, it’s simply not true that it’s been “virtually legalized.” Shoplifting remains illegal everywhere in the U.S. What has changed is that some police departments, constrained by limited staff or new policy priorities, haven’t always pursued low-dollar thefts as aggressively. At the same time, many of the most publicized “shoplifting waves” have turned out to involve organized theft rings and broader economic stresses, not someone stealing a sandwich because of a bail rule. Framing this as cashless bail “legalizing” theft is a misleading political soundbite, not a reflection of how laws actually work. If we’re really talking about wanting a “civil society,” then we have to remember that the push after George Floyd was for exactly that — equal treatment, accountability, and a justice system that works fairly for everyone. Communities were asking to be safe not just from crime, but also from the violence and impunity that can come when police abuse their power. Simplifying those demands into slogans about “defunding” or “legalizing shoplifting” does a disservice to the real discussions that were, and still are, underway. Yes some people did call for that. I think that was not only the wrong way to focus that movement (probably on Pourpose) but it is also foolish of them to call for defunding The police. Some of that was sparked because of the expansion of police access to militarized equipment happened mainly through a federal program called the Department of Defense’s "1033 program," which has been in place since the 1990s. And the heavy militarized response in Flint Michigan when people came to protest lead being in their water. Police should receive higher pay , and like the very good discussion of how teachers unions have ruined teaching. Police unions have ruined policing.
valley_forge 29-Aug-25, 21:05	"There is a Marxist Uprising in America: Can You See It?" 8 September 2020 But it’s possible for Black lives to matter without us feeling the need to support to an organisation that is stoking division and taking its cues from Karl Marx. You’re likely aware that Patrisse Cullors, one of BLM’s three co-founders, has openly and proudly announced that she and Alicia Garza — another co-founder of the group — are trained Marxists who are well-versed in Marxist ideology. You may also have read BLM’s What We Believe manifesto, which barely hides a Marxist worldview that seeks to “disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family” and pits oppressed against oppressor. It is not just the Marxist beliefs of BLM that should be of concern to everyday Westerners, however. In a recent video released by controversial radio host Paul Watson, it is quite evident that BLM are carrying out Marxist agitation tactics in public. Ritual Public Shaing youtu.be
apatzer 30-Aug-25, 09:14	GIGO
apatzer 30-Aug-25, 09:16	VF Don't worry Trump will save us from this Marxist uprising threatening the lives of ever red blooded American. We just need to hand all power over to him so he can fix it. Because as he said. "I alone can fix it" I'm personally trying to figure out what he has fixed yet.
classica 30-Aug-25, 10:08	Deleted by classica on 30-Aug-25, 10:08.
classica 30-Aug-25, 10:09	We are all along for the ride, just like 2020-2024. Fingers crossed everything turns out OK. Meanwhile Mamdani maintains his 84% chance of being mayor, on Polymarket casino odds.
valley_forge 31-Aug-25, 09:14	Trump's MAGA Movement Political Policies Best Chance to Preserve Republic "Jesus Has His Politics" You might be surprised to learn that Jesus has an opinion on the political matters that surround you today. jackhibbs.com (25:47)
apatzer 31-Aug-25, 15:53	The statement "Jesus has his politics" can be considered accurate but requires nuance for proper understanding. Jesus' ministry and teachings were deeply political in the sense that he challenged the dominant political powers of his time, including the Roman Empire, and proclaimed the coming of the Kingdom of God, which was a radically different political and spiritual order. However, Jesus did not engage in the partisan politics or factions of his day, nor did he seek political power through conventional means such as military might or rebellion. Jesus' Political Nature Jesus' message was inherently political because it confronted the existing earthly authorities and proclaimed God's kingdom as supreme, implicitly negating the authority of political rulers like Caesar. His actions and statements, such as denouncing rulers and declaring "My kingdom is not of this world," indicate a political dimension to his mission, though it was not aligned with any human government or party . Different from Conventional Politics Jesus did not participate in the political systems or seek to overthrow governments with violence or conventional revolution. Instead, he taught peace, nonviolence, and a government established by God in the future. His kingdom was a spiritual and divine governance rather than an earthly political regime. This is highlighted by his reply to Pontius Pilate where he said that his kingdom was "not of this world" . Political Implications of His Teachings While Jesus refrained from partisan affiliations or direct political rule, his teachings had profound implications for justice, power, and social order—calling for love of enemies, care for the poor, and challenging oppressive systems. This inevitably placed him at odds with existing political and religious powers, leading to his execution as a political dissident . In summary, Jesus indeed "has his politics" in terms of promoting the sovereignty of God's kingdom and challenging worldly powers, but his politics transcend traditional political categories and do not align with any human political party or system. This nuanced understanding shows that while Jesus' mission was political in a profound and revolutionary sense, it is distinct from the partisan politics common in human societies. Anyone who is a friend of the world is in enmity with God. Don't allow yourself to be deceived. Teachings About Foreigners Jesus emphasized welcoming and caring for strangers and foreigners as a sign of true discipleship. He said, "I was a stranger and you invited me in" (Matthew 25:35), underscoring the importance of hospitality and kindness to those who are outsiders or displaced . The Bible teaches that foreigners should be treated as native-born and loved as oneself because the Israelites themselves were once foreigners in Egypt (Leviticus 19:33-34). This reflects God's command to honor the dignity and humanity of foreigners . Jesus' teachings imply that how one treats the foreigner is a reflection of their faith and commitment to God. Ignoring the needs of the stranger is seen as neglecting Jesus himself (Matthew 25:41-45) . The Old Testament and Jesus' teachings advocate for justice, protection, and provision for foreigners to ensure they are not oppressed and are included in community life (Exodus 23:9, Deuteronomy 10:18-19) . Teachings About the Poor Jesus consistently showed compassion for the poor and marginalized, teaching that caring for them is serving God. For example, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and providing for those in need are acts of righteousness (Matthew 25:35-40) . The poor should be treated fairly and cared for, including widows, orphans, and those suffering from injustice (Isaiah 1:17, Zechariah 7:9) . Jesus taught generosity toward the poor, including sharing resources with those who have none (Luke 3:11) and leaving gleanings of the harvest for the poor to gather (Leviticus 23:22) . The treatment of the poor and vulnerable is a major theme throughout Jesus' ministry, linked to justice, mercy, and love, with severe warnings against neglecting them (Ezekiel 16:48-49) . Jesus' teachings promote love, hospitality, justice, and care for both foreigners and the poor, urging believers to treat them with compassion and dignity as part of living faith . And I'll leave you with this verse... In reference to listening to Jesus Christ. Luke 17:7-10, "Which of you, having a servant plowing or tending sheep, will say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come at once and sit down to eat’? But will he not rather say to him, ‘Prepare something for my supper, and dress properly and serve me while I eat and drink, and afterward you will eat and drink’? Does he thank the servant because he did what was commanded? I think not. So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.’”
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