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thumper 09-Dec-18, 15:44	Public service announcement The Chambers The significant difference between the .223 Rem and 5.56 NATO lies in the rifles, rather than the cartridges themselves. Both the .223 and 5.56 rounds will chamber in rifles designed for either cartridge, but the critical component, leade, will be different in each rifle. The leade is the area of the barrel in front of the chamber prior to where the rifling begins. This is where the loaded bullet is located when a cartridge is chambered. The leade is frequently called the “throat.” On a .223 Remington spec rifle, the leade will be 0.085”. This is the standard described by the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute, Inc. (SAAMI). The leade in a 5.56 NATO spec rifle is 0.162”, or almost double the leade of the .223 rifle. A shorter leade in a SAAMI spec rifle creates a situation where the bullet in a 5.56 NATO round, when chambered, can contact the rifling prior to being fired. By having contact with the rifling prematurely (at the moment of firing), chamber pressure can be dramatically increased, creating the danger of a ruptured case or other cartridge/gun failure. The reverse situation, a .223 Rem round in a 5.56 NATO gun, isn’t dangerous. The leade is longer, so a slight loss in velocity and accuracy may be experienced, but there is not a danger of increased pressures and subsequent catastrophic failure. How serious is the danger of firing 5.56 ammo in .223 guns? Dangerous enough that the SAAMI lists 5.56 military ammo as being not for use in .223 firearms in the technical data sheet titled “Unsafe Firearm-Ammunition Combinations.” ATK, the parent company of ammunition manufacturers Federal Cartridge Company and Speer, published a bulletin entitled “The Difference Between 223 Rem and 5.56 Military Cartridges.” In this bulletin, ATK stated using 5.56 ammo in a .223 rifle could result in “…primer pocket gas leaks, blown cartridge case heads, and gun functioning issues.” However, the danger may be lower than SAAMI or ATK suggest. In Technical Note #74 from ArmaLite, the company states “millions of rounds of NATO ammunition have been fired safely in Eagle Arms and ArmaLite’s® SAAMI chambers over the past 22 years,” and they have not had any catastrophic failures. According to ArmaLite: “Occasionally a non-standard round (of generally imported) ammunition will fit too tightly in the leade, and resistance to early bullet movement can cause elevated chamber pressures. These pressures are revealed by overly flattened primers or by powder stains around the primer that reveal leaking gasses.” What Do You Have? So, if you own a rifle chambered for the .223 for 5.56, do you know for which caliber it is really chambered? Many match rifles are chambered in .223 Remington (SAAMI specs) for tighter tolerances, and theoretically better accuracy. Many of the AR-15’s currently sold on the market are made for the 5.56 NATO cartridge. If you own one of these, you should be fine with any .223 or 5.56 ammunition. However, ATK dropped this bomb in the bulletin on the .223/5.56: “It is our understanding that commercially available AR15’s and M16’s – although some are stamped 5.56 Rem on the receiver – are manufactured with .223 chambers.” So, even if your AR is stamped 5.56, is it really? Check your owner’s manual or call the company directly and make sure you get an answer you feel comfortable with. As if the confusion regarding the .223 vs 5.56 chambers wasn’t enough, there is a third possibility in the mix, that is being used by at least one major manufacturer. The .223 Wylde chamber is a modified SAAMI-spec .223 chamber that allows for the safe use of 5.56 NATO rounds, but maintains tighter tolerances for better accuracy. Yeah, yeah… What’s the bottom line? Here’s the bottom line. If you want to follow the safest possible course, always shoot .223 Remington ammunition. The .223 Rem cartridge will safely shoot in any rifle chambered for the .223 or 5.56. If you want to shoot 5.56 NATO rounds, make sure you have a rifle designed for the 5.56 military cartridge. Shooting 5.56 in a normal .223 Rem rifle can result in bad things. bearingarms.com
thumper 09-Dec-18, 15:48	Talking about pressures: Tire pressure is a very important issue where fuel economy is concerned. In general as your vehicle’s tires contact the road the friction between the rubber and pavement slows the vehicle down. This is termed rolling resistance. In general, the lower your rolling resistance the longer your car will coast on a road without the need for additional gas. This increases your gas mileage. So by increasing your tire pressure you will decrease rolling resistance and raise your fuel economy. Keep the following guidelines in mind when increasing tire pressure to raise mpg’s: www.mpgenhance.com
dmaestro 09-Dec-18, 19:22	Thanks good tips.
dmaestro 10-Dec-18, 07:22	Coffee www.google.com www.foxnews.com I saw this and found it interesting.
thumper 11-Dec-18, 16:51	Boyle's law The absolute pressure excerpted by a given mass of an ideal gas is inversely proportional to the volume it occupies if the temperature and amount of gas remain unchanged within a closed system. en.m.wikipedia.org
zorroloco 11-Dec-18, 17:09	Boyle’s law Is cool because it’s true in social situations as well as with ideal gasses.
thumper 11-Dec-18, 17:17	I bet you're a toot at parties and in elevators.
thumper 12-Dec-18, 17:18	If you pass a State Patrol Officer sitting on the side of the highway while doing 5 mph over the speed limit during the first part of a fiscal quarter he will probably leave you alone. If you do it at the end of a fiscal quarter he will probably pull you over.
thumper 18-May-19, 19:03	The Four Primary Rules of Firearm Safety: Always treat every firearm as if it were loaded. Always point the muzzle in a safe direction. Always keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot. Always be sure of your target, foreground, backstop, and beyond.
inhis_service 18-May-19, 21:44	"Border patrol officials warn of crisis as 40,000 migrant parents and children are detained in February" www.dallasnews.com
inhis_service 24-May-19, 19:42	You're Safer if You're Packing Heat "Cato Institute study says armed citizens prevent thousands of crimes" archive.jsonline.com "FBI report shows importance of armed citizens in stopping mass murder sprees" www.naturalnews.com "Guns Used in Self-defense" According to the authors of Cato’s recently released study on how often guns are used by citizens to prevent crime, “tens of thousands of crimes are prevented each year by ordinary citizens with guns.” In a study of more than 5,000 news reports over an eight-year period, Clayton Cramer and David Burnett showed that the mere presence of an armed citizen thwarts many crimes, even beyond those that are reported by the police and and subsequently printed in the newspaper. www.thenewamerican.com
inhis_service 24-May-19, 19:54	"most accurate handgun caliber" www.google.com "most accurate semi auto pistol caliber" www.google.com
inhis_service 24-May-19, 20:17	Never Mind the Dog . . . www.google.com
thumper 24-May-19, 21:59	iHs The longer the handgun bbl the easier it is to hit a target at extended ranges. If you practice proper trigger control and sight alignment you would be surprised at how far out you can reliably hit your target. I can hit a 200 yard 18" x 24" steel target 5 out of 6 with a 5" bbl. There are people who can reliably hit that target at 500 yards with a handgun!!
mo-oneandmore 25-May-19, 09:18	thump Your: "I can hit a 200 yard 18" x 24" steel target 5 out of 6 with a 5" bbl. There are people who can reliably hit that target at 500 yards with a handgun!!" That's bullshit and you know it.  I have a friend who was on the Navy pistol team (45 cal pistol) before you were born --- I believe the official competition target is 50 ft or so for pistolera games. Mo
thumper 25-May-19, 10:13	Mo www.youtube.com 100 yards www.bing.com 200 yards www.bing.com 300 yards www.bing.com 500 yards www.bing.com 600 yards www.youtube.com 1000 yards Elmer Keith was doing that kind of shooting back in the 40's, 50's and 60's. If you actually knew what you were talking about before shooting your mouth off...
inhis_service 25-May-19, 10:38	Without any real experience, Mo-one’s assessment seems accurate. Shooting with a .38 caliber revolver several years ago I set up targets not 10 feet away and I couldn’t even scratch ‘em using both hands and firing as steady as I could! Looking to find documentation I found this interesting motto/ comment at “Hitting black, breaking records at pistol range” The Noise You Hear, is the Sound of FREEDOM." www.beaufort.marines.mil “RECORD 1000 yard shot with a 9mm Hand Gun! | S&W 929 by Jerry Miculek” youtu.be Jerry Miculek proves yet again that he is the master of shooting and makes an incredible, seemingly impossible shot using a 9mm revolver off-hand at 1000 yards! “Long range pistol” Long range pistol No, this is not another one of my posts about revolvers. Oh, I'm having a ball with the revolvers, but I'm the Contender and Encore pistol girl, right? Anyway, gorgeous day for us up here in our north woods (our leaves are in full color), so took my "baby", the Encore 30-06 pistol, to do a bit of shooting at 100 and 200 yards from the bench. This barrel loves the Winchester 150 grain Powermax, as seen from an earlier post. (100 yards from the bench.) No fluke, this, as the Encore went right back to shooting sub one inch groups with this ammo at 100 yards. Best of all, out at 200 yards, maintained the same MOA with most groups about 2". Lots of hunters at the range, these days, getting their rifles sighted in for deer season. By coincidence, was shooting next to two guys who were shooting 30-06 rifles, trying to sight them in and having troubles. Did my best to help them, though the problems were more shooter than the rifles. Neither guy had any idea there was any such thing as a 30-06 pistol. One them thought I was pulling his leg when I showed him some of my targets, too. Would be completely confident of this rig to shoot at 300 yards, but don't have more than 200 yards to shoot at our range. Besides, eve 200 yards is a darn long walk to tack up a target. gunnerforum.com This next video has nothing to do with pistol shooting, it looked interesting, nonetheless! “Somali Pirates Panic: US Marine Fires GAU 17 minigun from a UH 1Y Venom” youtu.be Perhaps, that Navy sharp shooter could use some lessons?
thumper 25-May-19, 11:21	Mo BTW, 50 feet (16.6 yards) is nothing as far as handgun distance is concerned, especially if you're that good. Just because a Navy pistol team competition used only 50 ft target range means nothing. Most indoor shooting ranges are 25 yards (75 feet). I've shot IDPA matches out to 75' (25 yards) distances. Does that mean my Glock 35 or I can't hit targets much further out? No it doesn't. I suspect the Navy pistol team (even a team from back in the day) are/were at least as good and possibly much better shots than I am. When you shoot somewhere between 15 to 20k rounds per year you get kinda good at it.
jonheck 25-May-19, 12:17	Thumper Thanks for the long range pistol videos. It's has always been my understanding that long range accuracy is highly, perhaps mostly, dependent on the initial mass, speed and aerodynamic slippy-niss of the thing coming out the end. There are always specialty experts in sports, but the guy wining the longest golf ball competition has not the same skills that are winning PGA tournaments. The long distance pistol accuracy demos started at over 100yds and went right on up there by the hundred. With no intent to to undermine, I gotta ask, is the guy in the videos a specialist expert or is he also the person winning actual pistol competitions? Jon
thumper 25-May-19, 16:49	Jon gundata.org There are interior, exterior and terminal ballistics to consider. T The ballistic coefficient you mention (slippy-ness) is generally associated with exterior ballistics so yes, ballistic coefficient is an integral component of long range accuracy and also the terminal ballistics (how hard it hits when it gets there). In ballistics, the ballistic coefficient (BC) of a body is a measure of its ability to overcome air resistance in flight. It is inversely proportional to the negative acceleration: a high number indicates a low negative acceleration—the drag on the projectile is small in proportion to its mass. This is good. Ballistic coefficient (BC) measures a bullet’s ability to slice through the atmosphere. *There are two standard models for calculating ballistic coefficient: G1 and G7. *The ballistic coefficient figure is represented by a decimal less than 1. *The higher the ballistic coefficient number, the better the bullet will fly. *A high ballistic coefficient offers a flatter trajectory and less wind drift. This can get very complicated: Ballistic Coefficient (BC) values can, and usually do change in value with changes in velocity. Most bullets exhibit a lowering BC as velocity slows. The extent of how much a BC will change depends on each unique bullet shape. When comparing BCs of different bullets, it is important to use an apples-to-apples approach. Some bullet shapes and designs have a higher ballistic coefficient, making them much more accurate than others. Ballistic coefficient has little to do with just a bullet’s diameter, it’s a function of a bullet’s overall dimensions. simple.wikipedia.org As an example, the Hornady A-Max 750gr .50 Browning Machine Gun (BMG) cartridge developed for target/match shooters has the best ballistic coefficient of 1.05 on G1 drag model.
thumper 25-May-19, 16:59	Jon About the skill sets: Highspeed close quarters shooters have the same basic skills as the long range precision shooters and vice versa. The close in shooters sacrifice precision for more speed and the long range shooters sacrifice speed for more precision, but it's the same basic skills of sight alignment and trigger control.
thumper 25-May-19, 17:07	The 1000 yard shooter, Jerry Miculek, is also freaky fast. www.bing.com
mo-oneandmore 25-May-19, 17:53	IHS Your: "Mo-one’s assessment seems accurate." Accurate in deed. None of those videos bothered to show the the target after the shoot-out, none of the targets were 14" x 18", and most of the long distance (500 yd) shots at a near 4' sq target were 10' to 40' off the target. The shooters were certainly experts to even do that. The most accurate "pistol" I ever fired had an 18" barrel, packed an 308 cartridge, included a finely adjusted high dollar scope and kicked like a mule. I'm no expert, but I was unable to consistently hit the target at 100 yards with a table rest.
thumper 25-May-19, 18:04	www.bing.com 200 yard snubnose .357 But hey, Mo says you can't do that so it must be a lie.
mo-oneandmore 25-May-19, 18:05	thump Your: "BTW, 50 feet (16.6 yards) is nothing as far as handgun distance is concerned, especially if you're that good." I said "about fifty feet", so your 25 yd statement might be correct --- that's 75 feet (+50%) if my math serves me. David Fey was on the US Navy pistol team which officially represents the USA Military in international competition, so I assume that Mr Fey was pretty good. Why can't you admit that your kock-in-bull story is bullshit, thump? Mo
thumper 25-May-19, 18:22	Mo I've shown video after video of people shooting long range handgun and you still try to deny it. You're pretty much an idiot aren't you? Just because you can't do something you seem to think it can't be done. People have been doing it for close to a hundred years now. Why don't you get ahold of David and ask him?
inhis_service 25-May-19, 18:23	Believe It Or Not How far can a pistol shoot accurately? Typically a 9 mm bullet shot out of a medium sized handgun will travel 2200 meters before it will fall to the ground. A bullet almost never travels this far before it actually hits something. So don't test this theory because chances are you will shoot someone or break something. 100 m "The effective range of the 9mm is about 100 m although the bullet does travel and is lethal at longer ranges." If your talking about a 9mm rifles but we're talking about a pistols. 100 m is a little far for the average GI to shoot with a pistol making 100 m the Maximum Effective Range.Jan 21, 2010 www.banjohangout.org › archive Shooter hits 1000-yard target in world record 9mm hand gun shot. Legendary shooter Jerry Miculek used his special Smith & Wesson—created in his honor—to shoot a target 1000 yards (914.4 meters) away—a new world record. Notice that it takes about 4 seconds for the bullet to reach its target.Aug 7, 2014 Gizmodo › legendary-shooter-n...
inhis_service 25-May-19, 18:36	Best Shot I've Ever Seen! youtu.be
mo-oneandmore 25-May-19, 20:41	ihs There's no question that a 9 mm bullet that's fired out of a 5" barrel pistol an "effective" lethal range of well over 100 meters, but thump's bullshit story is that HE can hit an 18" x 24 target that's 200 yards way. If thump could do that he would be world famous --- just like Jerry Miculek. Mo
thumper 25-May-19, 21:17	Mo <If thump could do that he would be world famous --- just like Jerry Miculek.> Not even close. I'm a good shot because I shoot a lot but not in the same league as National Level shooters, much less World Class shooters. You need to get out more if you think 200 yard handgun shooting is somehow miraculous or worthy of fame. Every good shooter can do that with minimal training and practice. www.bmrpa.org Handgun Silhouette started in 1975 with a group of shooters in the Tucson area in Arizona. Handgun Silhouette is about shooting metal targets at ranges from 25 to 200 yards using sight and trigger control, and having fun doing it! Shooting from standing or free style positions. Using revolvers, semi-automatics, and single shot handguns with iron sights, red dot, or scopes. Shooting .22 to .44 calibers, and can include lots of fun wildcat cartridges.
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