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From	Message
pawntificator 02-Dec-20, 23:34	Election Fraud I might as well expand the thread, because voter fraud is when an individual makes an illegal vote. Election fraud is more widespread voter fraud, usually organized in some way by some entity. This is what seems to be happening.
stalhandske 02-Dec-20, 23:36	Except that there is absolutely no proof for it! But that doesn't seem to bother you?
pawntificator 02-Dec-20, 23:38	There is quite a bit of proof. Are you not interested in it?
stalhandske 02-Dec-20, 23:39	I have not seen ANY, but if your definition of "proof" is anything like that advocated by iHs, then please don't bother to show it to me. Also, if there were any PROOF, don't you think the American legal system would have accepted that?
pawntificator 02-Dec-20, 23:45	I haven't been involved in the forums much for about a month. Complicated business. I don't know everything that IHS has said in here as he is a very prolific poster. The question is, how much proof do you need? One piece of video evidence? Oh, well then it's just an isolated incident, nothing widespread, nothing to worry about. Do you need a dozen videos of cheating? How much proof do you need?
stalhandske 02-Dec-20, 23:54	<Do you need a dozen videos of cheating? How much proof do you need? > I don't want videos. I want REAL PROOF. It seems to me that many of you Americans don't understand what that means. A long speech by president Trump - for example - claimed a lot but SHOWED ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! How on earth can you be supporting such a person and his claims???
pawntificator 02-Dec-20, 23:58	Because president Trump was ahead by hundreds of thousands of votes in the key swing states at the time they suddenly stopped counting or reporting votes, right about 11PM EST. When we woke up for work the next day they claim that Trump lost every single one of those states. I think the burden of proof should be on the media and democrats to show where in the world they got all of those votes.
pawntificator 03-Dec-20, 00:08	This is not proof, just people testifying under oath after signing sword affidavits that they will go to jail if they are not telling the truth www.youtube.com So don't even bother watching it. It goes against what you believe.
thumper 03-Dec-20, 00:22	Stål What do you consider "REAL PROOF"?
bobspringett 03-Dec-20, 01:09	Pawn 00:08 Get real, pawn! When was the last time ANYONE went to jail for an inaccurate deposition? IF the issue comes to court (a BIG 'if'), they will say that they swore to the best of their recollection. Having a bad memory will not send anyone to jail. And nobody could be bothered to take the time and effort to PROVE that they were deliberately lying. These guys might be sincere, they might not. Probably a mix of both. We all know that Trump will pardon any who are lying in his favour anyway, so what's the big deal? But either way, their affidavits mean NOTHING unless backed up by evidence, not just more affidavits. Justice relies on FACTS, not a vote of what some people would like to be true. I'm sure there would be any number of people who would swear (and in absolutely clear conscience) that they saw NOTHING amiss. Let's count them, too! You are fooling no-one.
pawntificator 03-Dec-20, 01:25	Well you might want to consider the pardon of General Flynn.
bobspringett 03-Dec-20, 01:31	Pawn 01:25 <Well you might want to consider the pardon of General Flynn.> I have considered that pardon, and a few others Trump has granted. But WHAT particular aspect would you specifically mean? You are very good at the 'nudge and wink' without actually saying anything. Please explain what conclusion should be drawn from your post. You are indeed so much like Trump, who can say so much by hint and innuendo without actually saying anything that can be properly analysed as part of a coherent chain of logic. Bypass the forebrain and go straight for the reptilian lobes!
pawntificator 03-Dec-20, 01:40	So, going back to the original question, why was Flynn ever threatened with jail? Before you give your answer, think about what you said earlier carefully.
pawntificator 03-Dec-20, 01:44	And please, someone link the article where they say Trump lost 30 lawsuits
bobspringett 03-Dec-20, 01:59	Pawn 01:40 Golly, Pawn! Flynn wasn't 'threatened' with jail. He was charged and lodged a 'guilty' plea. Guilty of lying under oath, in some ways similar to all those other 'evidences' that Trump has where other people have made statements under oath. Do you see a pattern here? Well, I've given my answer. now you can do the Great Reveal and tell me the TRUTH. now, what is your point? Or are you just doing a Giuliani, dropping hints and innuendos without actually saying anything worth listening to?
pawntificator 03-Dec-20, 02:04	-When I first invited you to join this club I thought you might be a person interested in ferreting out the truth. It seems I was wrong and you already have your own truth. I still think it's nice to have you contributing your opinions. I just wish they were your own opinions. I might try to think of a few names to call you later. Giuliani wouldn't have been my first pick. Maybe Bob. But you do you.
bobspringett 03-Dec-20, 14:46	Pawn 02:04 <When I first invited you to join this club I thought you might be a person interested in ferreting out the truth.> I plead 'guilty' to that! <It seems I was wrong and you already have your own truth.> You were not wrong, but 'my own truth' is to follow the evidence and logic, not to believe whatever I would prefer to be true. <I just wish they were your own opinions.> The irony of this is risible! Several posters on the Right here are clearly stating their own opinions. As are most on the left. I see only one who has no opinion except what he has been told. (No, not you!) Yet you don't seem to object, so long as he parrots what you want to hear. In fact, you have often supported his posts. Meanwhile, have you possibly noticed that many of the things I have said are NOT copied from a left-wing "List of Approved Slogans"? Things like actually WANTING the GOP to recover quickly from Trump instead of being discredited for a generation? Things like ENDORSING the GOP insistence on their candidate being a 'fit and proper person' in the line of Eisenhower, Reagan and the Bushes (and McCain and Romney), a tradition they maintained until this hostile Trump takeover? You don't get that from anyone else, so it's a fair bet that these opinions are my own, and not adopted from another source. Unlike some others I read here. Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for you to make direct statements BACKED BY REFERENCE TO SUPPORTING EVIDENCE. Stop using innuendo! It is the method of choice for those who don't know what they are talking about, so they just leave hints for the better-informed to fill in for them. You deserve to give yourself a better profile than that!
bobspringett 03-Dec-20, 14:49	Pawn 3 Dec 1:40 <So, going back to the original question, why was Flynn ever threatened with jail? Before you give your answer, think about what you said earlier carefully.> I've thought carefully, and I've given my answer at 1:59. I'm still waiting for you to end the suspense. Tell me YOUR answer!
inhis_service 03-Dec-20, 18:52	BULLITIN BULLITIN ~ HOW TRUMP VOTES FLIPPED FOR BIDEN "Software engineers report Dominion flipped ‘minimum of 138,000 votes’ from Trump to Biden in Michigan" A bombshell analysis of four counties in Michigan has been released by a team of mathematical experts led by an MIT-educated scientist that concludes tens of thousands of votes were transferred from Donald Trump to Joe Biden in that state. Dr. Shiva Ayyadurai, a mathematician, scientist and Fulbright scholar, teamed up with software engineers Bennie Smith and Phil Evans to conduct an analysis of voting data in Oakland, Macomb, Wayne and Kent counties in Michigan. When officials detected a 6,000-vote switch from Trump to Biden in one sparsely populated Michigan county, Antrim County, they dismissed it as a “glitch.” Smith debunked that excuse as a bureaucratic fabrication. [AKA "Let's move along, here, nothing to see" ] “First of all, there’s no such thing as a glitch. No compiled computer code can decide to change its mind,” he said. The only reason Michigan caught the discrepancy was because someone went to look at the printed-out poll tapes – the raw numbers that come out of the voter machines – and when they compared those numbers to the tabulated results provided by the state, they discovered THE NUMBERS DID NOT MATCH UP (Emphasis mine). [DM, did you catch that, they did not match up] leohohmann.com [Steve, are you catching all this?] "Dominion Voting System & Software Pyramid Exposed" The Dominion Voting System rabbit-hole UPDATED! Must See and Read to the end. This is earth shattering news on the Dominion voting systems and voting software pyramid. Who’s behind it, where your electronic votes go… all of which is being exposed, right now… A technology “glitch” that halted voting in two Georgia counties on election day was caused by a vendor uploading “some kind of update“ to their election machines the night before, a county election supervisor said. WHAT? A last minute “software update” the night before the election?! There’s nothing to see here…move along please… shut up and obey… The counties (and apparently at least 28 States!) use voting machines made by Dominion Voting Systems, headquartered in Toronto, Canada. Dominion has become the center of controversy surrounding electronic voting systems voting fraud in this (and probably other) elections. A spokesperson for the secretary of state’s office did not respond to follow-up questions about who uploaded the dataset (software update) and whether it had been reviewed and tested by anyone beforehand. “That is something that they don’t ever do. I’ve never seen them update anything the day before the election,” said Marcia Ridley of the Spalding County Board of Elections (source). (1) (1). www.politico.com How many American voters or “state & county officials” have any idea how these electronic voting systems work? Where does one’s vote go? Is it secure? Is there a “trail”? Can the votes be changed? Lots of questions! Read on… modernsurvivalblog.com
pawntificator 03-Dec-20, 20:36	Obsteve doesn't think amateur youtube videos will convince anyone of anything. I beg to differ. This is infuriating and outrageous. streamable.com
dmaestro 03-Dec-20, 20:43	Nothing outrageous at all. It’s misrepresented.
pawntificator 03-Dec-20, 20:59	It's damning and irrefutable. The election was a fraud when democrats in Georgia claim there is a water leak in order to stop counting votes and send poll watcher home, then turn right around when everybody leaves and pulls out somewhere around 23,487 votes that went for Biden at a rate of over 97%. media.thedonald.win You can attempt to minimize the damage all you want. Our opinions aren't what matter.
dmaestro 03-Dec-20, 21:04	www.google.com That is false.
stalhandske 03-Dec-20, 21:04	Why aren't the criminal investigators reacting to this "evidence"? Because it is non-existent. You just fail to show "the other side".
stalhandske 03-Dec-20, 21:05	dmaestro Trying to open that link yields: Access Denied You don't have permission to access "www.11alive.com" on this server. Reference #18.b36de5c1.1607058296.57962290
dmaestro 03-Dec-20, 21:06	They have “stories”’ not evidence.
stalhandske 03-Dec-20, 21:15	<They have “stories”’ not evidence. > Precisely! And I cannot for my life understand the American system where political committees interrogate these "whistleblowers". What is the gain here, except just confusing the people and stirring more and more hatred between left & right? The only proper way to investigate and solve possible crimes is to have professionals do it (the police) and have unbiased courts assess the results!
dmaestro 03-Dec-20, 21:22	Indeed. Neutral professional investigative teams should handle these cases. The fraud claims are just spun stories.
inhis_service 03-Dec-20, 21:28	Truck LOADS OF BALLOTS ACROSS STATE LINES << They have “stories”’ not evidence. > Are VERY compelling STORIES IMO
bobspringett 03-Dec-20, 21:32	Stal 21:15 <And I cannot for my life understand the American system where political committees interrogate these "whistleblowers". What is the gain here, except just confusing the people and stirring more and more hatred between left & right?> Actually, Stal, your post shows that you DO understand it. The purpose is PRECISELY to 'confuse the people and stir up more hatred'. And with a bit of luck, prejudice the public perception of the real investigation afterwards. In America, it is all about theatre, not establishing the facts. Take the Trump lawsuits, for instance. He keeps saying there is 'overwhelming evidence', but he never presents any when the time comes. Then he walks out of court and complains that the court didn't look at the 'overwhelming evidence' that he didn't present to it. Another term for the same tactic is 'poisoning the well'. It means to take pre-emptive steps to ensure that rational debate is rendered impossible before it starts. It happens all the time in politics, where one party will deliberately misrepresent the policy of their opposition, but Trump has added a complete new dimension by involving the courts as deeply as he has in this same stance. In any intelligent jurisdiction, any lawyer who participated in such vexatious practices would be given a 'show cause' notice and his client charged with Public Mischief. Who knows? It might still happen, after Jan 20 has come and gone! As for me, I genuinely hope that Trump does indeed grant plenary pardons to himself and his family and all his hangers-on. It will allow Biden to avoid the very divisive question of 'to prosecute or not prosecute', while automatically meaning that Trump etc are guilty. A pardon removes punishment, but it automatically confirms guilt! Then it will be up to States to do whatever they feel inclined to do, because a Presidential Pardon only applies to Federal crimes, not State offences. Trump can still be tried and found guilty in New York for crimes that carry sentences considerably longer than his remaining life expectancy, and no doubt his minions would be caught up as well.
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