|
« TAP TO LOG IN
|
Play online chess!
The Rapture 2
« Back to club forum
| |||||||||||||||
| From | Message | ||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
 The Rapture 2m.gameknot.com This is a great video on former President Trump and the Rapture. The video is about more than that, but I’ve only seen the part that concerns Trump and the Rapture, which goes from the beginning of the video to 13:48. Normally I don’t post videos unless I’ve watched them in their entirety, but I think what Tom Cote (Watchman River) says here about Trump and the Rapture is important enough to post this video now, especially ‘cause I won’t be online for the next few hours… “It’s a TRAP! Do NOT Fall Into It!” youtu.be |
||||||||||||||
|
Seems well-versed in Scripture (no pun intended) and sincere… “Wake up please, the Rapture, gonna happen! 🙌” youtu.be Video is 14:18 I wasn’t aware until this video that Isaac carried the wood for what was initially intended to be his sacrifice as Jesus Christ carried the cross for His sacrifice. And when Isaac asked his father where the sacrifice was, Abraham replied, “God will provide…” - meaning God will provide the sacrifice for them and for humanity 2,000 years later. “Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off. And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you. And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together. And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together. And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood. And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.” (Genesis 22:4-13) |
||||||||||||||
|
If you have time for nothing else, check his discussion of the Gospel from 26:23 to 34:44. “What’s Coming Next Week??” youtu.be Video is 34:44 |
||||||||||||||
|
It’s so easy to get distracted and sucked into politics, but nothing good comes of it - especially for me. It just leads to insults, arguing, tmi and regrettable posts. “The Tables are Set in Heaven for our Arrival! The Rapture is about to Happen!” youtu.be Video is 6:58 |
||||||||||||||
|
“Holy Spirit Speaks Through Me With Such A Sense Of Urgency. Get On The Ark Now. We’re About To Leave” youtu.be Video is 19:55 I don’t have the personality to preach the Gospel and greatly admire people like Genevieve Brazel who do. But we can all pray and I pray for people I know to be saved every time I pray. |
||||||||||||||
|
|
||||||||||||||
|
But I do agree with her assessment it’s very soon based on what’s happening in the world and what I sense in my spirit. These are interesting times, no doubt about that. |
||||||||||||||
|
“Are We in the TRIBULATION Already????” youtu.be Video is 7:46 From the video description… <<Many people are preclaiming we are already in the seven year tribulation prophesied in Rev 6-19. Let’s compare scripture to what’s going on in the world right now!>> |
||||||||||||||
|
Interesting take. |
||||||||||||||
|
@Thumper Never heard that before. Thanks for posting. I saw a video yesterday about the correlation between Revelation 6 and the blasphemous display at the Olympics’ opening ceremony. I think many unbelievers know what’s coming. Not really a fan of this guy (not that my opinion of him matters lol) because he was a notorious date setter when it comes to the Rapture and had an unfortunate habit of trashing other watchers and questioning people’s salvation. But his comments in the first few minutes of this video about the Olympics’ opening ceremony and how it ties into Revelation is interesting. And the golden calf, which references what the Jews built to worship while Moses was away too long receiving the Ten Commandments from God on Mount Sinai, wasn’t photoshopped (as the guy in the video questioned) but was actually part of the Olympics’ opening ceremony, according to the media. Moses was so enraged by the golden calf that he broke the tablets upon which God had written the Ten Commandments and God had to write them again. Great account from Exodus… “And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him. And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me. And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron. And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the Lord. And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play. And the Lord said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves: They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. And the Lord said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation. And Moses besought the Lord his God, and said, Lord, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand? Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people. Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever. And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people. And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written. And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables. And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said unto Moses, There is a noise of war in the camp. And he said, It is not the voice of them that shout for mastery, neither is it the voice of them that cry for being overcome: but the noise of them that sing do I hear. And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses' anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount. And he took the calf which they had made, and burnt it in the fire, and ground it to powder, and strawed it upon the water, and made the children of Israel drink of it. And Moses said unto Aaron, What did this people unto thee, that thou hast brought so great a sin upon them? And Aaron said, Let not the anger of my lord wax hot: thou knowest the people, that they are set on mischief. For they said unto me, Make us gods, which shall go before us: for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him. And I said unto them, Whosoever hath any gold, let them break it off. So they gave it me: then I cast it into the fire, and there came out this calf.” (Exodus 32:1-24) “RAPTURE - - - Olympic evil - - - Perfect Story - - Perfect Timing! !” youtu.be Video is 15:40 |
||||||||||||||
|
“WHOA! MEGA War Is About To EXPLODE In Israel!!” youtu.be Video is 34:36 Wasn’t aware Israel not only took out the number one or number two commander in Hezbollah but also the top political leader in Hamas, who was prime minister of the Palestinian National Authority from March 2006 to June 2014. The former was assassinated in Beirut, the capital of Lebanon; the latter was assassinated in his home in Tehran, the capital of Iran. No question imo there will be a response. I don’t think Tom Cote’s headline on this video is hype, at least not the words. Maybe the all caps and exclamation marks are. |
||||||||||||||
|
Prophecy On End Times Should Be On Everyone's Top Priority I for one sure have not been paying much attention to this as I should have. Intend to watch it with my wife later this evening for bet you me! |
||||||||||||||
|
WW III Is Inevitable "Xi Jinping and China: Running Out of Time, Ready to Strike" Why is Chinese President Xi Jinping moving so fast at this time to exert control over peripheral waters? Prominent China analyst Willy Lam wrote last October that China's leader perhaps sees a closing window of opportunity and therefore is in a hurry to annex territory. www.gatestoneinstitute.org |
||||||||||||||
|
Lot of news stories on the assassinations, but I didn’t link any. I may do it later in the “Israel at War” thread. My understanding is these assassinations were in response to Hezbollah killing a dozen children on a soccer field in the Israeli-controlled Golan Heights. |
||||||||||||||
|
<<Iran's Khamenei orders attack on Israel as revenge for Haniyeh elimination - report The directive was issued at an emergency meeting of Iran's Supreme National Security Council, the report added. Iran is expected to directly attack Israel in response to the assassination of Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh in Tehran on Wednesday morning, according to a New York Times report citing three sources. The directive was issued at an emergency meeting of Iran's Supreme National Security Council, the report added. Iran’s Supreme leader Sayyed Ali Khamenei had earlier in the day spoken of retribution in a post on X. “Following this bitter, tragic event which has taken place within the borders of the Islamic Republic, it is our duty to take revenge,” he wrote. Iran had already directly attacked Israel in April. Ninety-nine percent of its 300 drones and missiles were shot out of the sky by a coalition of five armies belonging to the US, Israel, Jordan, and the United Kingdom. Haniyeh killed in Tehran US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin had earlier in the day said, “If Israel is attacked, we certainly will help defend Israel.” US National Security Communications Adviser John Kirby said, “We have and will maintain a level of readiness to preserve our national security interest in the region. “It's not like we take a blind eye to what Iran is capable of doing and has shown they’re capability of doing in the region. “It's not like we've demonstrated an unwillingness to defend Israel from threats in the region, including from Iran if that happens,” Kirby said. “We maintain that capability and that readiness to do so now,” he added. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had on Wednesday night warned that there could be challenging days ahead and that Israel was prepared for any scenario as he spoke of Israel’s existential battle against Tehran. Earlier in the day he held a security cabinet meeting and security consultations.>> m.jpost.com |
||||||||||||||
|
Israel apparently now contemplating preemptive strike on Iran… “RAPTURE IS CLOSER, MUCH MUCH CLOSER THAN WE THINK. IRAN SUPREME LEADER JUST ORDERED STRIKE ON ISRAEL” youtu.be Video is 18:07 |
||||||||||||||
|
|
||||||||||||||
|
apatzer 31-Jul-24, 18:54 |
Deleted by apatzer on 31-Jul-24, 18:54.
|
||||||||||||||
|
|
||||||||||||||
|
@ Victor While on the one hand the Rapture may happen at “any time without any warning”, another search kind of contradicted that by referring to 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, 8-9. Now there definitely is a general separating or social distancing from Christianity as well as a general apostasy from the traditional doctrines of the Church; Shouldn’t we be hoping for a general great world-wide revival, too? Thank you in advance for your thoughtful responses. |
||||||||||||||
|
When people can see the Christ that is living in you and recognize him. Then there will be a revival. |
||||||||||||||
|
And I just don’t see in the Bible the righteous being punished with the wicked, knowing that believers’ righteousness is solely because of Jesus Christ. Even as far back as Genesis, God says He’ll spare Sodom if only 10 righteous live there. “And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked? Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein? That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? And the Lord said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes. And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes: Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it. And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake. And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there. And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake. And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake. And the Lord went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.” (Genesis 18:23-33) |
||||||||||||||
|
@Valley_Forge I don’t think a revival is going to happen, though I think individuals will continue to get saved; just in a way that isn’t noticeable in the way a revival would be. And I believe the Apostle Paul said there would be a falling away from the faith prior to the Tribulation, though the Greek word he uses could also be translated as departure. “Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.” (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4) I believe verse 1 is referring to the Rapture, while verses 2 and 3 (day of Christ or, in other translations, day of the Lord) biblehub.com are referring to the Tribulation. This commentary is interesting in that it doesn’t rule out a falling away from the faith (which would be by existing believers) and a great revival (unbelievers coming to faith) happening at the same time… <<b. Unless the falling away comes first: The ancient Greek wording for falling away indicates a rebellion or a departure. Bible scholars debate if it refers to an apostasy among those who once followed God, or a general worldwide rebellion. In fact, Paul may have both in mind, because there is evidence of each in the end times (1 Timothy 4:1-3, 2 Timothy 3:1-5 and 4:3-4). Nevertheless, Paul’s point is clear: “You are worried that we are in the Great Tribulation and that you missed the rapture. But you can know that we are not in the Great Tribulation, because we have not yet seen the falling away that comes first.” i. The falling away: The article “the” makes it even more significant. This is not a falling away, but the falling away, the great and final rebellion. ii. Some have suggested that the idea behind falling away is really a departure, in the sense of the rapture of the church. But a departure implies that the one leaving does so of his own accord and initiative, and this is not the case with the catching away of the church. In addition, the ancient Greek word in the New Testament (Acts 21:21, forsake) or in the Septuagint, always implies something sinful and negative. iii. The idea of a great end-times apostasy also does not contradict the idea of a great end-times revival. Some Christians doubt the idea of great revival in the last days, or even welcome apostasy believing it signals the end. But just as the Book of Revelation describes great rejection of Jesus during the Great Tribulation (Revelation 9:20-21 and 17:2-6) and great acceptance of Him (Revelation 7:9-14), the two can stand side-by-side.>> enduringword.com BTW, my understanding is the earliest Bibles used the word “departure” instead of “falling away” in 2 Thessalonians 2:2, which would appear to mean Paul was saying, “You can’t be in the Tribulation because the Rapture hasn’t happened.” |
||||||||||||||
|
I previously posted (months ago) about the earliest Bibles translating the Greek word “apostasia” in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 as “departure” but couldn’t find that post (didn’t look that hard.) It’s an important distinction because Paul is either saying the Tribulation won’t occur until there is a great falling away from the faith OR Paul is saying the Tribulation won’t occur until the Rapture of the church. <<IS THE RAPTURE IN 2 THESSALONIANS 2:3? Tom's Perspectives by Thomas Ice Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, —2 Thessalonians 2:3 I believe that there is a strong possibility that 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking of the rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists, like myself, think that the Greek noun apostasia, usually translated “apostasy,” is a reference to the rapture and should be translated “departure.” Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord will not come until the rapture comes before it. If apostasia is a reference to a physical departure, then 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is strong evidence for pretribulationism. THE MEANING OF APOSTASIA The Greek noun apostasia is only used twice in the New Testament. In addition to 2 Thessalonians 2:3, it occurs in Acts 21:21 where, speaking of Paul, it is said, “that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake (apostasia)Moses.” The word is a Greek compound of apo “ from” and istemi “stand.” Thus, it has the core meaning of “away from” or “departure.” The Liddell and Scott Greek Lexicon defines apostasia first as “defection, revolt;” then secondly as “departure, disappearance.” Gordon Lewis explains how the verb from which the noun apostasia is derived supports the basic meaning of departure in the following: The verb may mean to remove spatially. There is little reason than to deny that the noun can mean such a spatial removal or departure. Since the noun is used only one other time in the New Testament of apostasy from Moses (Acts 21:21), we can hardly conclude that its Biblical meaning is necessarily determined. The verb is used fifteen times in the New Testament. Of these fifteen, only three have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8;13; 1 Tim. 4:1; Heb 3:12). The word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Tim. 2:19), from ungodly men(1 Tim. 6:5), from the temple (Luke 2:27), from the body (2 Cor. 12:8), and from persons (Acts 12:10; Luke 4:13). “It is with full assurance of proper exegetical study and with complete confidence in the original languages,” concludes Daniel Davey, “that the word meaning of apostasia is defined as departure.” Paul Lee Tan adds the following: What precisely does Paul mean when he says that “the falling away” (2:3) must come before the tribulation? The definite article “the” denotes that this will be a definite event, an event distinct from the appearance of the Man of Sin. The Greek word for “falling away”, taken by itself, does not mean religious apostasy or defection. Neither does the word mean “to fall,” as the Greeks have another word for that. [pipto, I fall; TDI] The best translation of the word is “to depart.” The apostle Paul refers here to a definite event which he calls “the departure,” and which will occur just before the start of the tribulation. This is the rapture of the church. So the word has the core meaning of departure and it depends upon the context to determine whether it is used to mean physical departure or an abstract departure such as departure from the faith. TRANSLATION HISTORY The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either “departure” or “departing.” They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608). This supports the notion that the word truly means “departure.” In fact, Jerome’s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of A.D. 400 renders apostasia with the “word discessio, meaning ‘departure.’” Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of “departure”? Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as “falling away.” Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as “departure.” No good reason was ever given. THE USE OF THE ARTICLE It is important to note that Paul uses a definite article with the noun apostasia. What does this mean? Davey notes the following: Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article reference is being made to something in particular. In II Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church. Dr. Lewis provides a likely answer when he notes that the definite article serves to make a word distinct and draw attention to it. In this instance he believes that its purpose is “to denote a previous reference.” “The departure Paul previously referred to was ‘our being gathered to him’ (v. 1) and our being ‘caught up’ with the Lord and the raptured dead in the clouds (1 Thess. 4:17),” notes Dr. Lewis. The “departure” was something that Paul and his readers clearly had a mutual understanding about. Paul says in verse 5, “Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?” The use of the definite article would also support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernable event. A physical departure, like the rapture would fit just such a notion. However, the New Testament teaches that apostasy had already arrived in the first century (cf. Acts 20:27–32; 1 Tim. 4:1–5; 2 Tim. 3:1–9; 2 Pet. 2:1–3; Jude 3–4, 17–21) and thus, such a process would not denote a clear event as demanded by the language of this passage. Understanding departure as the rapture would satisfy the nuance of this text. E. Schuyler English explains as follows: Again, how would the Thessalonians, or Christians in any century since, be qualified to recognize the apostasy when it should come, assuming, simply for the sake of this inquiry, that the Church might be on earth when it does come? There has been apostasy from God, rebellion against Him, since time began. Whatever Paul is referring to in his reference to “the departure,” was something that both the Thessalonian believers and he had discussed in-depth previously. When we examine Paul’s first letter to the Thessalonians, he never mentions the doctrine of apostasy, however, virtually every chapter in that epistle speaks of the rapture (cf. 1:9–10; 2:19; probably 3:13; 4:13–17; 5:1–11). In these passages, Paul has used a variety of Greek terms to describe the rapture. It should not be surprising that he uses another term to reference the rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Dr. House tells us: Remember, the Thessalonians had been led astray by the false teaching (2:2–3) that the Day of the Lord had already come. This was confusing because Paul offered great hope, in the first letter, of a departure to be with Christ and a rescue from god’s wrath. Now a letter purporting to be from Paul seems to say that they would first have to go through the Day of the Lord. Paul then clarified his prior teaching by emphasizing that they had no need to worry. They could again be comforted because the departure he had discussed in his first letter, and in his teaching while with them, was still the truth. The departure of Christians to be with Christ, and the subsequent revelation of the lawless one, Paul argues, is proof that the Day of the Lord had not begun as they had thought. This understanding of apostasia makes much more sense than the view that they are to be comforted (v. 2) because a defection from the faith must precede the Day of the Lord. The entire second chapter (as well as 1 Thessalonians 4:18; 5:11) serves to comfort (see vv. 2, 3, 17), supplied by a reassurance of Christ’s coming as taught in his first letter. DEPARTURE AND THE RESTRAINER Since pretribulationists believe that the restrainer mentioned in verses 6 and 7 is the Holy Spirit and teaches a pre-trib rapture, then it should not be surprising to see that there is a similar progression of thought in the progression of verse 3. Allan MacRae, president of Faith Theological Seminary in a letter to Schuyler English has said the following concerning this matter: I wonder if you have noticed the striking parallel between this verse and verses 7–8, a little further down. According to your suggestion verse 3 mentions the departure of the church as coming first, and then tells of the revealing of the man of sin. In verses 7 and 8 we find the identical sequence. Verse 7 tells of the removal of the Church; verse 8 says: “And then shall that Wicked be revealed.” Thus close examination of the passage shows an inner unity and coherence, if we take the word apostasia in its general sense of “departure,” while a superficial examination would easily lead to an erroneous interpretation as “falling away” because of the proximity of the mention of the man of sin. Kenneth Wuest, a Greek scholar from Moody Bible Institute added the following contextual support to taking apostasia as a physical departure: But then hee apostasia of which Paul is speaking, precedes the revelation of Antichrist in his true identity, and is to katechon that which holds back his revelation (2:6). The hee apostasia, therefore, cannot be either a general apostasy in Christendom which does precede the coming of Antichrist, nor can it be the particular apostasy which is the result of his activities in making himself the alone object of worship. Furthermore, that which holds back his revelation (vs. 3) is vitally connected with hoo katechoon (vs. 7), He who holds back the same event. The latter is, in my opinion, the Holy Spirit and His activities in the Church. All of which means that I am driven to the inescapable conclusion that the hee apostasia (vs. 3) refers to the Rapture of the Church which precedes the Day of the Lord, and holds back the revelation of the Man of Sin who ushers in the world-aspect of that period. CONCLUSION The fact that apostasia most likely has the meaning of physical departure is a clear support for pretribulationism. If this is true, (Dr. Tim LaHaye and I believe that it is), then it means that a clear prophetic sequence is laid out by Paul early in his Apostolic ministry. Paul teaches in 2 Thessalonians 2 that the rapture will occur first, before the Day of the Lord commences. It is not until after the beginning of the Day of the Lord that the Antichrist is released, resulting in the events described by him in chapter 2 of 2 Thessalonians. This is the only interpretation that provides hope for a discomforted people. Maranatha!>> digitalcommons.liberty.edu |
||||||||||||||
|
Will pets be raptured? She said they wouldn’t because that’s not mentioned in Scripture. But I think the fact Scripture is silent on the question doesn’t mean they won’t be. There’s no doubt animals are in Heaven. I can think of two places in the Bible where that’s clear. First is a short passage in Romans 8… “For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.” (Romans 8:19-21) It’s not clear what event “delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God” refers to, but certainly the Rapture involves the children of God being delivered from the bondage of corruption. And I think the “creature” is distinct from “sons of God” and “children of God,” meaning creature refers to animals. Then, there’s a prophetic passage in Isaiah which I believe describes the earth after Jesus Christ’s Second Coming and establishment of His Millennial Kingdom (both of which follow the Rapture and Tribulation.) “The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.” (Isaiah 11:6-9) Animals are again mentioned by Isaiah in chapter 65, though in this instance it appears to be on the new Heaven and new earth described in the opening verses of Revelation 21… “The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.” (Isaiah 65:25) Animals are obviously part of God’s creation now and are prophesied to be part of God’s creation after the Rapture and Tribulation. I believe God’s purpose in creating animals was not for food (before the fall, I believe humans were herbivores) but was to assist man in his work and to provide companionship to man. But I think the most important part of answering the question posed to Lisa Boyce centers on God’s character. I remember watching a YouTube video of a Jewish woman who became a Messianic Jew and she said she held off on believing in Jesus Christ for a long time because she couldn’t bear the thought that her parents, who were Orthodox Jews and who died without believing in Jesus Christ (as far as she knew,) could be in hell. But she said she remembered a passage in the Bible in which God said He will do what is right and that she realized she had to have faith in God and who He is. If I remember that passage, I’ll post it in here. So imo if Scripture is silent on a question (and I think it is silent on whether pets get Raptured,) I think believers have to fall back on the character of God, knowing He is righteous, has great love for His children, and is described by the Apostle John as fully light. “This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.” (1 John 1:5) |
||||||||||||||
|
|
||||||||||||||
|
My favorite food, though, is peanut butter. It’s interesting how certain animals are revered in some cultures but considered primary sources of food in other cultures. |
||||||||||||||
|
Vic |
||||||||||||||
|
It’s from a Jewish woman’s testimony and the relevant part of the video starts at 2:18… “God if you’re real, prove it.” | Shoshannah Weinisch's Story youtu.be Video is 3:16 The passage she referenced is from Genesis 18… “And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know. And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the Lord. And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked? Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein? That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? And the Lord said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes. And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes: Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it. And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake. And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there. And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake. And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake. And the Lord went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.” (Genesis 18:20-33) The specific statement - Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? - is actually attributed to Abraham, though God is obviously in agreement with it, and the text doesn’t say God had to be convinced to spare Sodom if only 10 righteous lived there. And according to this commentary, only four righteous (Abraham’s relatives) lived in Sodom, and God enabled them to escape, except the wife of Abraham’s nephew, Lot, looked back in disobedience to God and perished. <<Remember, there is a sense in which all this negotiation was in vain, because Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. There were not ten righteous people in the city, only four; and surely God knew how many righteous people there actually were in the cities. Yet God specifically revealed the fate of these cities to Abraham to draw out of him an intercessor’s heart of love, so even before the time of Jesus, Abraham could be conformed into the image of His Son (Romans 8:29), who is Himself an intercessor (Hebrews 7:25). d. Abraham returned to his place: We wonder if Abraham should not have continued the negotiations because there were only four righteous in the city. Would God have spared the city for four if Abraham had asked? Perhaps Abraham felt Lot would surely have brought six people beyond his own family to God in his time in Sodom.>> enduringword.com |
||||||||||||||
|
@Thumper If I grew up in or lived in the Northwest, I’m sure how my position on animals was reflected in day-to-day living would change based on circumstances. |
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
