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Evolution
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 Every Environmental Change Drives EvolutionEvolution has two legs. Random mutation, and natural selection. And NS is the environment, whether comprised of competitors, predators, mutagens, or whatever. The environment is the natural selector. |
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Lord Shiva |
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Snowball Earth. |
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Iridium 193 Gamma Ray emitters would definitely wreak havoc on DNA. |
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Iridium 193 |
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Shiva The Siberian Traps are associated with the Permian extinctions, The Deccan Traps with the Cretaceous extinctions. |
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It’s both Iridium has two naturally occurring, stable isotopes, 191Ir and 193Ir, with natural abundances of 37.3% and 62.7%, respectively.[25] At least 37 radioisotopes have also been synthesized, ranging in mass number from 164 to 202. 192Ir, which falls between the two stable isotopes, is the most stable radioisotope, with a half-life of 73.827 days, and finds application in brachytherapy[26] and in industrial radiography, particularly for nondestructive testing of welds in steel in the oil and gas industries; iridium-192 sources have been involved in a number of radiological accidents. Three other isotopes have half-lives of at least a day—188Ir, 189Ir, and 190Ir.[25] Isotopes with masses below 191 decay by some combination of β+ decay, α decay, and (rare) proton emission, with the exception of 189Ir, which decays by electron capture. Synthetic isotopes heavier than 191 decay by β− decay, although 192Ir also has a minor electron capture decay path.[25] All known isotopes of iridium were discovered between 1934 and 2008, with the most recent discoveries being 200–202Ir.[27] |
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stalhandske 07-May-23, 22:35 |
The waiting problem. Haldane's query tbiomed.biomedcentral.com This is a very interesting computer simulation of the process of evolution. Briefly, it comes to the conclusion that the 'waiting times' for successful mutations to occur are far too long to fit Darwinian evolution theory. I have some fundamental objections to this study (the assumpions behind the computer simulation algorithm), but I need to work a bit more on that and I will return on it later. But the reason for why I wanted to bring this up here now is that the senior author of that paper, John Baumgardner, is precisely the geophysicist who commented on my talk in Los Alamost National Laboratory in 1996 to say that the protein I was describing had to be created and could not have evolved! The world is very small! |
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Let me look up this John Bum-gardener. Never heard of hom before. |
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Is it this guy? |
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stalhandske 08-May-23, 01:52 |
Riaan |
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Stal and Riaan Just as Lancet articles are reviewed and filtered by experts in medical science, so is the CMI Journal reviewed by people with recognised credentials as experts in Creationism. They even have certificates signed by each other. Isn't it obvious that a guy with qualifications in geophysics would be a world-class expert in assessing the current research into evolution? |
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Stal and Riaan (again) He holds a PhD. in meteorology, and his contribution to the book is fundamentally about the probability of random genetic mutation being beneficial. His position is that these mutations were guided by God, thereby taking the 'random' aspect out of the process. He acknowledges that this is not 'scientific', but the idea that God wasn't involved is also an assumption that has no proof. He has no problem with whatever scientists discover. In his opinion, they are just teasing out the details of 'how God did it'. Therefore he supports such research rather than arguing against it, because if these geniuses can figure out how God did things, that would be a good model to follow when designing bio-chemical or genetic interventions. |
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Besides the match, I should read the article again- I noticed a few misstatements and misconceptions but I am at the office and need to work at times.... I started reading here (www.icr.org) and followed various links- no prejudice involved- to learn more about the TERRA code and the Epiphany Project and Mendel's Accountant. References to other studies are always within the creationist sphere, never to anything outside like, for instance: References Austin, S. et al. 1994. Catastrophic Plate Tectonics: A Global Flood Model of Earth History. In Proceedings of the Third International Conference on Creationism. Walsh, R. E., ed. Pittsburgh, PA: Creation Science Fellowship, 609-621. Baumgardner, J. R. 2003. Catastrophic Plate Tectonics: The Physics Behind the Genesis Flood. In Proceedings of the Fifth International Conference on Creationism. Ivey, R. L., Jr., ed. Pittsburgh, PA: Creation Science Fellowship, 113-126. Baumgardner, J. R. and D. W. Barnette. 1994. Patterns of Ocean Circulation over the Continents During Noah's Flood. In Proceedings of the Third International Conference on Creationism. Walsh, R. E., ed. Pittsburgh, PA: Creation Science Fellowship, 77-86. Sanford, J. et al. 2008. Using Numerical Simulation to Test the Validity of Neo-Darwinian Theory. In Proceedings of the Sixth International Conference on Creationism. Pittsburgh, PA: Creation Science Fellowship and Dallas, TX: Institute for Creation Research, 165-175. Sanford, J. et al. 2008. Mendel's Accountant: A New Population Genetics Simulation Tool for Studying Mutation and Natural Selection. In Proceedings of the Sixth International Conference on Creationism. Pittsburgh, PA: Creation Science Fellowship and Dallas, TX: Institute for Creation Research, 87-98. Vardiman, L. and W. Brewer. 2010. Numerical Simulation of Precipitation in Yosemite National Park with a Warm Ocean: A Pineapple Express Case Study. Answers Research Journal. 3 (2010): 23-36. Vardiman, L. and W. Brewer. 2010. Numerical Simulation of Precipitation in Yosemite National Park with a Warm Ocean: Deep Upper Low and Rex Blocking Pattern Case Studies. Answers Research Journal. 3 (2010): 119-145. Vardiman, L. and W. Brewer. 2010. Numerical Simulation of Precipitation in Yellowstone National Park with a Warm Ocean: Continuous Zonal Flow, Gulf of Alaska Low, and Plunging Western Low Case Studies. Answers Research Journal. 3 (2010): 209-266. Vardiman, L. and W. Brewer. 2011. A Well-watered Land: Numerical Simulations of a Hypercyclone in the Middle East. Answers Research Journal. 4 (2011): 55-74. The NCSE published an article refuting every single thing Baumgardener says, or placing it into perspective with explanations that refute the claims by Baumgardner. (ncse.ngo). The TERRA code is not an acceptable modeling system at all, and has not been accepted as a reliable benchmark in the [real] geophysical community at all; it does not resemble or do not reproduce the results by other bench marked software. I also had a perfunctory look at the Epiphany hardware- it is not impressive at all. I found his educational achievements: Ph.D. Geophysics & Space Physics, 1983 - University of California, Los Angeles M.S. Geophysics & Space Physics, 1981 - University of California, Los Angeles M.S. Electrical Engineering, 1970 - Princeton University B.S. Electrical Engineering, 1968 - Texas Tech University Nothing about biology, genetics, zoology or the like. Impressive, I admit, but these degrees does not make him an expert on evolution. Well, I can go on and on, but the most important thing I read so far is the article by the NCSE that neatly refutes every claim he makes. To me it is incomprehensible that such an intelligent person so deliberately misinterpret science to suit his religious dogma. It is obvious that his arguments are ill conceived, that his postulates do not comply to scientific vigor and inquiry, and that he deliberately misrepresent facts, methods and other scientists to suit his own agenda. |
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Riaan 03:17 These guys are trying to copy God; creating a world out of nothing! |
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Bob Better suited to the dark ages |
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stalhandske 09-May-23, 05:23 |
A strange comment <I wonder why evolutionists don’t better understand the Bible is more than the first two chapters in Genesis. It’s like the creation account is not only all evolutionists care about in the Bible but all they think believers care about too. Odd - and not indicative of confidence in what they believe. > I would not categorise me as an 'evolutionist', or any other 'ist' for that matter (except perhaps optimist), and other 'ists' may comment separately. But I don't understand Vic's concerned comment, at least if applied to me. I think I understand the Bible reasonably well although certainly not neary as well as Vic. The creation account is certainly not all I care about in the Bible, nor is it what I think believers care most about. I think the Bible - and the New Testament in particular - is a truly remarkable book not least because it has been the basis of the entire Western Culture, and still is in many ways. I would rather suggest that Vic has a problem in not really understanding atheist positions such as mine. In some respects I think I value the Christian Faith even more than he does. |
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Stal And his repeated use of the meaningless non-word, evolutionist to mean people who trust in science is more of his dogmatic babbling. I’ve never seen someone trying so hard to convince himself that his simplistic mythology is actually real. I advice you to avoid reading his polluting tripe. He couldn’t be farther from god given his ingrown personality, angry demeanor and childish beliefs. I suggest leaving him to stew in his own filth…. There’s no gain in arguing with willfully ignorant dogmatic superstitious petty morons. |
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Marsupials Marsupials diverged from Eutherian mammals approximately 90 million years ago. Marsupials probably evolved in North America, expanded into South America and the Pacific rim of Asia. During this period of migration the North American marsupials became extinct, followed by extinctions in Europe during the Miocene epoch of the Tertiary period. When North and South America rejoined in the Pleio-pleistocene, South American marsupials migrated back into North America, where Didelphis virginiana, the American opossum evolved. Marsupials began to migrate to Australia and New Zealand from North America in the late Cretaceous or early Tertiary period. The route of migration crossed Antarctica and into Australia. As Australia broke off from Antarctica and moved northwards, its isolation from other landmasses was complete and the independent evolution of marsupials in Australia and New Zealand began. Prolonged suckling has vastly limited marsupial evolution By Beth Askham First published 28 April 2021 3 Marsupials have missed out on their evolutionary potential because of how they reproduce. This has limited the way in which these animals have been able evolve over the past 90 million years. By looking at the evolution of mammal jaw bones, a team of Museum researchers have found that marsupials have evolved at a slower pace and with much less diversity than placentals. Marsupials are mammals that nourish their young in a pouch, such as kangaroos and possums, while placentals are mammals that nourish their young in a uterus, such as humans and whales. The study, published in Proceedings of the Royal Society B, has found that mammal jaw shape is significantly influenced by both diet and reproduction. They found that marsupial feeding behaviour when young has stopped the group from evolving the diversity seen in placental mammals, which includes flying bats, swimming whales and giant elephants. Why are there no marsupial whales? Marsupial newborns are born very early, at most a few weeks after conception at a point when their body is not well-developed. They have big arms to crawl from the birth canal to their mother's pouch, and face and jaw bones for the non-stop suckling when they get there. Prof Anjali Goswami, a Research Leader at the Museum and senior author of the study says, 'At this stage, marsupial newborns look like little jellybeans with hands. They just have some face bones and forelimbs - everything else is basically cartilage and goo. 'They don't even have much of a brain.' During this time, they suckle more intensively than placentals, which means their jaws are under a lot of pressure to function properly within just a few weeks of conception. A newborn possum scan of skeleton in purple and you can see its bones A newborn possum, Trichosurus vulpecula, showing that few bones (in white) are formed when they are born, but they have a very large jaw bone ready for suckling and forelimbs for climbing to the pouch. Image credit: Vera Weisbecker, Flinders University. Read more Because their jaws need to function so early in their development, they can't later remodel their jaws into different shapes for other kinds of feeding behaviours in the way placentals can. This is why, for example, placentals could evolve the unusual jaws of baleen whales, but marsupials could not. In contrast, placental young are born more developed and mostly don't suckle for as much or as long as marsupials. The only placental mammals that do suckle as long as marsupials are primates, including humans. Placentals and marsupials have evolved similar jaw shapes The study found some great examples of marsupials and placentals evolving similar jaw shapes to adapt to similar diets and lifestyles. Some of the most extreme convergences in shape between these groups include the marsupial mole and the star-nosed mole, the recently extinct Tasmanian wolf and the (placental) wolf, and the black rhinoceros and the fossil giant wombat. An illustration of the jaw of a wolf and tasmanian tiger Marsupials and placentals have evolved similar jaw shapes to adapt to similar diets and lifestyles, one example of this is the recently extinct Tasmanian tiger and the (placental) wolf Read more Using 3D data sets to look at jaw shape To study mammal evolution, Museum researchers looked at the adult jaw bone of 151 living and extinct species of mammals. Anne-Claire Fabre, postdoctoral researcher and lead author of the study describes how they conducted the study, 'We use micro-CT scanning and laser scanners to build gigantic 3D data sets of living and fossil species, using the collections here at the Museum and at other museums around the world. 'With these scans, we use methods to describe the shape of each bone with hundreds of individual points which are then used to reconstruct how the shapes differ across species and how fast they evolved. 'This dataset is particularly exciting because we included some really unusual extinct marsupials, including a sabre-toothed marsupial that lived in South America, marsupial lions, and marsupial rhinos.' The researchers chose to use the jaw bone because it's the perfect bone to study feeding and it is also functional immediately after birth in all marsupials, unlike the forelimbs. Their work is part of a bigger study of skull evolution across all vertebrates (fish, amphibians, reptiles, birds and mammals) led by Anjali. The research group within the Museum are studying life on the planet to understand how factors like life cycles, ecology, habitat and extinction drive the diversity of species in the past, present and future. |
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I do object against a god that sends the 300 most bestial men that could be found into a land that, for all I know, was fairly prosperous and in peace, killing and pillaging as far as they went. I object against a god who instructed that not even a goat or chicken must be left alive after sacking a city. Such a god is really vicious and vindictive. The burning bush of Moses can be explained. There is such a bush that spontaneously combusts under the right conditions, but not as described in Genesis. (Dictamnus albus, www.youtube.com). Maybe Moses was hallucinating a bit after his recent trials and ordeals and came across the bush, where he made a little campfire not knowing that the bush could ignite, and it ignited.... something like that, not the narrative of the Bible. (I do give the Bible some thought and try to understand.) Most of my objections come later in the Bible, especially the New testament. I repeat what I once said, only half joking: if I had a superpower, it would have to be to turn water into wine. I consider a man, already decomposing, that wakes up normally and walks and talks and I don't believe it. It is not possible to feed a crowd of (bobspringett, help me here) 5 000 or 7 000 with three fish and five loaves of bread. (I do think that what really happened is that people spontaneously started to share what food they had with them! See? I consider other options that are plausible.). These are the things I question. |
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stalhandske 09-May-23, 05:50 |
Zorro But more generally, he is quite carefully following the creationist or ID 'movement', which includes comments by highly intelligent people such as Stephen C. Meyer and a few others. I won't accept your advice, simply because I think most of the time his comments are rational (on a certain scale) and thus require thinking, not like the comments of some others who only make noise. |
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Stal But suit yourself |
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stalhandske 09-May-23, 06:28 |
Zorro OK, that's noted, but I think that - from time to time - it helps to spur discussion and to consider what others think. |
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stalhandske 09-May-23, 06:32 |
Zorro |
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Stal |
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But I thought the marsupial evolution was pretty interesting. That whole jaw structure related to prolonged suckling was cool. |
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Marsupial evolution. A couple of general comments:- 1. "Because their jaws need to function so early in their development, they can't later remodel their jaws into different shapes for other kinds of feeding behaviours in the way placentals can." And "The study found some great examples of marsupials and placentals evolving similar jaw shapes to adapt to similar diets and lifestyles. Some of the most extreme convergences in shape between these groups include the marsupial mole and the star-nosed mole, the recently extinct Tasmanian wolf and the (placental) wolf, and the black rhinoceros and the fossil giant wombat." These seem to contradict each other. 2. "They found that marsupial feeding behaviour when young has stopped the group from evolving the diversity seen in placental mammals, which includes flying bats, swimming whales and giant elephants." Perhaps a greater restraint on diversity is that marsupials are restricted to one continent, with a comparatively limited range of environments. A secondary consideration is that even where environments in the rest of the world are similar (e.g., the African grasslands and the Prairies) they are separated by intervening ecosystems that present effective barriers. Further, the Australian ecosystem is quite poor. Soil fertility and therefore carrying capacity is relatively limited. Even so, there were some significant marsupial predators before humans arrived and out-competed them for food. 3. "They don't even have much of a brain." When food is scarce, the most fuel-demanding organ gets cut down to a minimum. Specially so for herbivores in an environment where predators are relatively scarce, and for predators where prey is scarce. In Australia the peak predators before human arrival were reptiles such as huge monitor lizards, crocodiles and snakes, who could endure long periods between successful hunts. Marsupial predators were smaller and limited to the better-vegetated regions. These are all adaptions for a continent where resources were both rare and extremely variable. An excellent book on this is 'The Future Eaters' by Tim Flannery. www.amazon.com |
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Genesis 'only the premise'? IMO, the first fifteen chapters of Genesis contain all the keys to understanding the rest of the Bible. It's the 'abstract' or 'executive summary' of all that follows. What comes after that can be seen as providing the process by which the promise of the first fifteen chapters is worked through. And by the end of chapter 15, Abraham is still childless! I suspect this is why I react so viscerally to those who would ignore it's insights and instead try to turn it into a very ignorant parody of history. It's also why I have considerable contempt for those who try to legislate Christian values; If there are such things as 'Christian values' (and I believe there are!), then these are based in love and being trustworthy, therefore not legislatable. If you don't believe me, read Paul's letters again. You will see that Paul anchors his ethic in Genesis 15:6. But now, back to evolution... |
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Marsupial Sabertooth |
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Shiva The biggest doing the rounds today is the Tasmanian Devil, usually less than 10 kg; the now extinct Tassie Tiger weighed around 20 kg. |
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