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coram_deo 17-Aug-21, 10:55	What Happens To Believers When They Die This first post talks about what happens to believers who die *before* Jesus Christ returns to earth. From blueletterbible.org The intermediate state is the time in which the spirit, or soul, of the believer exists between physical death and the resurrection of the body. Though the Bible does not have a whole lot to say concerning the intermediate state of the believer, there are some basic conclusions we can make. Spirits With God The spirits of departed believers are with the Lord. The Bible says. Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7). The writer to the Hebrews says. and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect (Hebrews 12:23). Christ's Presence At death, the spirit of the believer enters into Christ's presence. Jesus promised the dying robber on the cross that he would be with Him immediately after death. And Jesus said to him, 'Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise' (Luke 23:43). Immediately Present The Apostle Paul also taught that believers would be in Christ's presence upon their death. For we know that if our earthly house, this tent is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed, we shall not be found naked. . . We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:1,2,8). Paul wrote to the church at Philippi. For I am hard pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better (Philippians 1:23). Paul says that his death would be far better for him than remaining alive because he would be in the presence of Christ. Be With Jesus Jesus talked about believers being with Him in the next world. Father, I desire that those also, whom You have given Me, may be with Me where I am, to see My glory, which You have given Me because you loved Me before the foundation of the world (John 17:24). Stephen Upon his death, the martyr Stephen called upon Jesus to receive his spirit. And he [Stephen], being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and said, 'Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!'. . . And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, 'Lord Jesus, receive my spirit' (Acts 7:55,56, 59). The usual picture of Jesus is sitting on the right hand of God the Father. But when Stephen was about to die, Jesus stood to welcome him into God's presence. This is another indication that the believing dead go immediately to be with Christ. Not Place Of Final Reward The intermediate state is not the place of final reward for the believer. Final rewards will occur after the resurrection - which is still future. Though Christians who die go to be with the Lord, this is not when they receive their final reward, or their resurrection body. Conscious Believers are in a state of awareness after death. Jesus told the religious leaders in His day that God was the God of the living. He reminded them what God had said to Moses. I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living (Matthew 22:32). With God When the beggar Lazarus died, the Scripture says. So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. And the rich man died and he was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side (Luke 16:22,23). The rich man in Hades saw both Lazarus and Abraham. Each were in a better place. Live Together Paul told the church at Thessalonica that believers will always be with the Lord. Who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him (1 Thessalonians 5:10). Rest And Blessedness Believers who die are in a restful state. The Bible says. When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the Word of the Lord and for the testimony they held. And they cried with a loud voice saying, 'How long O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?' And a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants, and their comrades, who would be killed as they were, was completed (Revelation 6:9-11). Those with the Lord are also blessed. And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, 'Write: 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.' Yes, says the Spirit, 'that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them' (Revelation 14:13). Activity Though the intermediate state is a place of waiting, it is also a place of activity. For this reason they are before the throne of God, and worship Him day and night within His temple, and the One who is seated on the throne will shelter them (Revelation 7:15). Holiness The believers are in a state of holiness. In the Book of Revelation, the Apostle John asked an angel the identity of certain individuals. I said to him, "Sir, you are the one that knows." Then he said to me, "These are they who have come out of the Great Tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb (Revelation 7:14). The clothes which they are wearing, white robes, speak of holiness. Emphasis On Final State Though we have some information from the Bible on the intermediate state, it is not something that is emphasized. The hope of the believer is the coming of Christ. It is at that time the dead are raised in a glorified body, judged, and receive their rewards. The intermediate state is only a short interval between this life and the fulness of God's promises. Hence the lack of emphasis. Limited Amount Revealed The Bible only reveals a limited amount of information about what goes on in the presence of the Lord. Paul wrote of his experience. I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know - God knows. And I know that this man - whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows - was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that people are not permitted to tell (2 Corinthians 12:2-4). Paul was not allowed to tell what he had experienced. If we knew exactly how wonderful it was, we probably would not be content to remain for one more hour on the earth. Being with the Lord will truly be an incredible experience! Summary After examining what the Bible says about the "intermediate," or "in between" state of the believer, we can conclude the following. 1. Upon death, the soul or spirit of the believer goes immediately to be with God. 2. The Bible also says the believer goes to be with Christ in the presence of the Lord. 3. Believers are alive and conscious in this state. 4. Though it is not their final reward, it is a place of rest, waiting, activity, and holiness. 5. Paul, who was caught up in the presence of the Lord, says that he heard inexpressible things that a person is not allowed to communicate. 6. Although believers have a natural curiosity about the intermediate state, Scripture focuses on the time when Christ returns. At that time He will raise and judge the dead, and then set up His everlasting kingdom. www.blueletterbible.org
coram_deo 17-Aug-21, 11:45	Should have been more specific in introducing that first post. That first post speaks of what happens to believers who die before the Rapture, which is when Jesus Christ appears in the Heavens to remove believers who are alive from the earth. That can take place at any time. Jesus Christ’s return to earth, also known as the Second Coming, takes place after the Rapture (I mistakenly thought the two pretty much coincided.) Anyway, here is a good article on the distinction between the Rapture and Jesus Christ’s Second Coming and what happens in between those events. From gotquestions.org: “The rapture and the second coming of Christ are often confused. Sometimes it is difficult to determine whether a scripture verse is referring to the rapture or the second coming. However, in studying end-times Bible prophecy, it is very important to differentiate between the two. The rapture is when Jesus Christ returns to remove the church (all believers in Christ) from the earth. The rapture is described in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. Believers who have died will have their bodies resurrected and, along with believers who are still living, will meet the Lord in the air. This will all occur in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye. The second coming is when Jesus returns to defeat the Antichrist, destroy evil, and establish His millennial kingdom. The second coming is described in Revelation 19:11-16. The important differences between the rapture and second coming are as follows: 1) At the rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the second coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth (Revelation 19:14). 2) The second coming occurs after the great and terrible tribulation (Revelation chapters 6–19). The rapture occurs before the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10). 3) The rapture is the removal of believers from the earth as an act of deliverance (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, 5:9). The second coming includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment (Matthew 24:40-41). 4) The rapture will be secret and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). The second coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30). 5) The second coming of Christ will not occur until after certain other end-times events take place (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Matthew 24:15-30; Revelation chapters 6–18). The rapture is imminent; it could take place at any moment (Titus 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54). Why is it important to keep the rapture and the second coming distinct? 1) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, believers will have to go through the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10). 2) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, the return of Christ is not imminent—there are many things which must occur before He can return (Matthew 24:4-30). 3) In describing the tribulation period, Revelation chapters 6–19 nowhere mentions the church. During the tribulation—also called ‘the time of trouble for Jacob’ (Jeremiah 30:7)—God will again turn His primary attention to Israel (Romans 11:17-31). The rapture and second coming are similar but separate events. Both involve Jesus returning. Both are end-times events. However, it is crucially important to recognize the differences. In summary, the rapture is the return of Christ in the clouds to remove all believers from the earth before the time of God’s wrath. The second coming is the return of Christ to the earth to bring the tribulation to an end and to defeat the Antichrist and his evil world empire.” www.gotquestions.org
coram_deo 17-Aug-21, 11:54	Pastor Joseph Prince talks about the Rapture in this video. There seems to be agreement that believers, those still alive and those who have died, receive new bodies in the Rapture. youtu.be
coram_deo 17-Aug-21, 16:03	More on the Rapture by Pastor Joseph Prince: youtu.be
coram_deo 17-Aug-21, 16:37	Between the Rapture, in which all believers (those who have accepted and believed in Jesus Christ) are taken from the earth to be with Christ, and Jesus Christ’s Second Coming is a seven-year Tribulation. This is a good commentary on what the Tribulation is and how it fits into a prophecy in the book of Daniel, which accurately (and amazingly) predicted the exact day Jesus Christ would be crucified - 560+ years in advance! From gotquestions.org: “The tribulation is a future seven-year period of time when God will finish His discipline of Israel and finalize His judgment of the unbelieving world. The church, made up of all who have trusted in the person and work of the Lord Jesus to save them from being punished for sin, will not be present during the tribulation. The church will be removed from the earth in an event known as the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:51-53). The church is saved from the wrath to come (1 Thessalonians 5:9). Throughout Scripture, the tribulation is referred to by other names such as the Day of the Lord (Isaiah 2:12; 13:6-9; Joel 1:15; 2:1-31; 3:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:2); trouble or tribulation (Deuteronomy 4:30; Zephaniah 1:1); the great tribulation, which refers to the more intense second half of the seven-year period (Matthew 24:21); time or day of trouble (Daniel 12:1; Zephaniah 1:15); time of Jacob’s trouble (Jeremiah 30:7). An understanding of Daniel 9:24-27 is necessary in order to understand the purpose and time of the tribulation. This passage speaks of 70 weeks that have been declared against “your people.” Daniel’s people are the Jews, the nation of Israel, and Daniel 9:24 speaks of a period of time that God has given “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.” God declares that “seventy sevens” will fulfill all these things. This is 70 sevens of years, or 490 years. (Some translations refer to 70 weeks of years.) This is confirmed by another part of this passage in Daniel. In verses 25 and 26, Daniel is told that the Messiah will be cut off after “seven sevens and sixty-two sevens” (69 total), beginning with the decree to rebuild Jerusalem. In other words, 69 sevens of years (483 years) after the decree to rebuild Jerusalem, the Messiah will be cut off. Biblical historians confirm that 483 years passed from the time of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the time when Jesus was crucified. Most Christian scholars, regardless of their view of eschatology (future things/events), have the above understanding of Daniel’s 70 sevens. With 483 years having passed from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the cutting off of the Messiah, this leaves one seven-year period to be fulfilled in terms of Daniel 9:24: “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.” This final seven-year period is known as the tribulation period—it is a time when God finishes judging Israel for its sin. Daniel 9:27 gives a few highlights of the seven-year tribulation period: “He will confirm a covenant with many for one ’seven.' In the middle of the ’seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.” The person of whom this verse speaks is the person Jesus calls the “abomination that causes desolation” (Matthew 24:15) and is called “the beast” in Revelation 13. Daniel 9:27 says that the beast will make a covenant for seven years, but in the middle of this week (3 1/2 years into the tribulation), he will break the covenant, putting a stop to sacrifice. Revelation 13 explains that the beast will place an image of himself in the temple and require the world to worship him. Revelation 13:5 says that this will go on for 42 months, which is 3 1/2 years. Since Daniel 9:27 says that this will happen in the middle of the week, and Revelation 13:5 says that the beast will do this for a period of 42 months, it is easy to see that the total length of time is 84 months or seven years. Also see Daniel 7:25, where the “time, times, and half a time” (time=1 year; times=2 years; half a time=1/2 year; total of 3 1/2 years) also refers to “great tribulation,” the last half of the seven-year tribulation period when the beast will be in power. For further references about the tribulation, see Revelation 11:2-3, which speaks of 1260 days and 42 months, and Daniel 12:11-12, which speaks of 1290 days and 1335 days. These days have a reference to the midpoint of the tribulation. The additional days in Daniel 12 may include the time at the end for the judgment of the nations (Matthew 25:31-46) and time for the setting up of Christ’s millennial kingdom (Revelation 20:4-6). In summary, the Tribulation is the 7-year time period in the end times in which humanity’s decadence and depravity will reach its fullness, with God judging accordingly.” www.gotquestions.org Note: I broke up a couple of long paragraphs for ease in reading.
coram_deo 17-Aug-21, 19:38	As far as I can tell, and I’m far from well versed in eschatology (in fact, I just learned that term today,) it appears the major future events in the lives of believers are: • The Rapture, when they will be taken to Heaven and given new, immortal bodies. The Rapture can happen at any time. Here are some verses on the Rapture, written by the apostle Paul: “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16-27) • The Tribulation, a seven-year period of great distress for those left behind on the earth (people who rejected Jesus Christ.) • The Second Coming of Jesus Christ, when He will establish His millennial Kingdom. Jesus Christ will bring believers with Him when He returns to earth. • Creation of the new Heaven and new earth. This is referenced by the apostle John in Revelation: “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.” (Revelation 21:1-5) Since I posted about the Rapture and Tribulation, here is an explanation about the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. From gotquestions.org: The second coming of Jesus Christ is the hope of believers that God is in control of all things, and is faithful to the promises and prophecies in His Word. In His first coming, Jesus Christ came to earth as a baby in a manger in Bethlehem, just as prophesied. Jesus fulfilled many of the prophecies of the Messiah during His birth, life, ministry, death, and resurrection. However, there are some prophecies regarding the Messiah that Jesus has not yet fulfilled. The second coming of Christ will be the return of Christ to fulfill these remaining prophecies. In His first coming, Jesus was the suffering Servant. In His second coming, Jesus will be the conquering King. In His first coming, Jesus arrived in the most humble of circumstances. In His second coming, Jesus will arrive with the armies of heaven at His side. The Old Testament prophets did not make clearly this distinction between the two comings. This can be seen in Isaiah 7:14, 9:6-7 and Zechariah 14:4. As a result of the prophecies seeming to speak of two individuals, many Jewish scholars believed there would be both a suffering Messiah and a conquering Messiah. What they failed to understand is that there is only one Messiah and He would fulfill both roles. Jesus fulfilled the role of the suffering servant (Isaiah chapter 53) in His first coming. Jesus will fulfill the role of Israel’s deliverer and King in His second coming. Zechariah 12:10 and Revelation 1:7, describing the second coming, look back to Jesus being pierced. Israel, and the whole world, will mourn for not having accepted the Messiah the first time He came. After Jesus ascended into heaven, the angels declared to the apostles, “‘Men of Galilee,’ they said, ‘why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven’” (Acts 1:11). Zechariah 14:4 identifies the location of the second coming as the Mount of Olives. Matthew 24:30 declares, “At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.” Titus 2:13 describes the second coming as a “glorious appearing.” The second coming is spoken of in greatest detail in Revelation 19:11-16, “I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. ‘He will rule them with an iron scepter.’ He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.” www.gotquestions.org And here is an article from the same source on Jesus Christ’s millennial Kingdom, which He establishes after His Second Coming. From gotquestions.org: The millennial kingdom is the title given to the 1,000-year reign of Jesus Christ on the earth. Some seek to interpret the 1,000 years in an allegorical manner. They understand the 1,000 years as merely a figurative way of saying “a long period of time,” not a literal, physical reign of Jesus Christ on the earth. However, six times in Revelation 20:2-7, the millennial kingdom is specifically said to be 1,000 years in length. If God wished to communicate “a long period of time,” He could have easily done so without explicitly and repeatedly mentioning an exact time frame. The Bible tells us that when Christ returns to the earth He will establish Himself as king in Jerusalem, sitting on the throne of David (Luke 1:32–33). The unconditional covenants demand a literal, physical return of Christ to establish the kingdom. The Abrahamic Covenant promised Israel a land, a posterity and ruler, and a spiritual blessing (Genesis 12:1–3). The Palestinian Covenant promised Israel a restoration to the land and occupation of the land (Deuteronomy 30:1–10). The Davidic Covenant promised Israel a king from David’s line who would rule forever—giving the nation rest from all their enemies (2 Samuel 7:10–13). At the second coming, these covenants will be fulfilled as Israel is re-gathered from the nations (Matthew 24:31), converted (Zechariah 12:10–14), and restored to the land under the rule of the Messiah, Jesus Christ. The Bible speaks of the conditions during the millennium as a perfect environment physically and spiritually. It will be a time of peace (Micah 4:2–4; Isaiah 32:17–18), joy (Isaiah 61:7, 10), and comfort (Isaiah 40:1–2). The Bible also tells us that only believers will enter the millennial kingdom. Because of this, it will be a time of obedience (Jeremiah 31:33), holiness (Isaiah 35:8), truth (Isaiah 65:16), and the knowledge of God (Isaiah 11:9, Habakkuk 2:14). Christ will rule as king (Isaiah 9:3–7; 11:1–10). Nobles and governors will also rule (Isaiah 32:1; Matthew 19:28), and Jerusalem will be the political center of the world (Zechariah 8:3). Revelation 20:2-7 gives the precise time period of the millennial kingdom. There are countless other passages that point to a literal reign of the Messiah on the earth. The fulfillment of many of God’s covenants and promises rests on a literal, physical, future kingdom. There is no solid basis for denying the literal interpretation of the millennial kingdom and its duration being 1,000 years. www.gotquestions.org As I said earlier, I’m far from well versed in eschatology (study of the End Times.) I took a discipleship course at a Baptist church about five years ago and learned about the Rapture, Tribulation and Second Coming of Christ. But, to be honest, it didn’t really interest me (at least beyond the absolute basics.) But what happens to believers after they die and what happens to believers if the Rapture takes place during their lifetimes is pretty interesting and important. But beyond the Rapture, I’m not that interested in End Times studies. The way I figure it, if the Rapture happens while I’m alive on earth, I’ll meet the Lord in the air (clouds) with other believers and receive a new, immortal body. And I think Pastor Joseph Prince is right in saying the sudden disappearance of millions of people from earth will be (falsely) blamed by unbelievers on extraterrestrials. And if the Rapture happens after I’ve died and my spirit has gone to Heaven, I’ll receive a glorified, immortal body. So either way, it’s all good 👍👍 As I remember it, there are wars between Jesus Christ and His armies and Satan and his armies after Jesus Christ’s Second Coming, but that honestly gets too deep into the weeds for me (metaphorically speaking.) The one event I forgot to mention that will occur for believers is the Judgment Seat of Christ, but it’s not what it seems to imply. This is not judging whether someone goes to Heaven - that’s already been established (a “done deal” as Pastor Prince says) based on the fact they accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. The Judgment Seat of Christ is more like a “life review” where believers are rewarded for work they did on earth that had eternal consequences (bore fruit for Jesus’ heavenly Kingdom.) This is all basic Christianity. For those interested in the end times, and that honestly doesn’t include me, here is a document I found that goes through all the events and the sequences of them: www.cs.ubc.ca But I think the Rapture, when believers are taken from the earth and receive glorified, immortal bodies, and the Judgment Seat of Christ (and also the Marriage Supper of the Lamb) are the events I’m most interested in and most looking forward to. The rest I’ll figure out OJT - on the job training. BTW, it’s easy for the unenlightened and uninformed to dismiss all this as fantasy, but remember this: The prophet Daniel predicted *to the day* when Jesus Christ would be crucified, and he did this 560+ years before the crucifixion of Jesus Christ took place. And that’s just one of hundreds of Messianic prophecies about Jesus Christ coming to earth 2,000 years ago.

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