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Law and Order
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 Law and OrderSo we have an allegation of mortgage fraud being used as grounds for removal. No judgement, and as far as we know not even an investigation. But a bare allegation by a Trump ally. So what do you think would be fitting for someone guilty of 34 counts of mortgage fraud; not just allegations, but as determined in court by unanimous jury verdict after evidence is presented and the defence case heard? This is the 'Law and Order' President! |
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Bob My opinion is that trump squeezed out of those mortgage fraud convictions because the Democrat leaders turned their heads in fear that they would loose the 2024 election. MAGA |
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Mo 22:31 Germany in the early thirties at least had the Depression and a growing Communist bloc in the Reichstag to make people desperate, both of them the consequences of an international financial regime that made Germany uniquely vulnerable. America in the early 21st century had no problems except those it created for itself, combined with an arrogant sense of entitlement. Electing Trump, and then RE-ELECTING Trump, was a national-scale tantrum. America gets what it deserves. |
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Bob Y'all might be right there too Mate, but Chris Christie disagrees with you, and Christie knows a lot more about American politics than you and me combined. x.com Christie says that NOTHING get's done without trump's approval in a dictator sort of way--- that's why trump is threatening to SIC his D of J law dogs (PUN INTENDED) on Christie. |
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www.google.com |
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Mo 10:47 No doubt that's true. But just saying 'CC disagrees' doesn't tell me much. He disagrees with WHAT? You haven't given much clue on what part of my post CC would disagree with. And what is his take on that issue? From what I could gather from your links, Christie was disgreeing with a few different people on a range of subjects, but I couldn't see anywhere that he disagreed with the core of my 00:37 post; that America as a culture is both ignorant and arrogant, a combination well suited to a child. That assessment doesn't apply to each American individual, of course; in fact, individually most Americans are generous and helpful. But that generosity is too often mounted on a sense of noblesse oblige, like a rich man throwing pennies to the beggars. But over the last couple of decades, that generosity has diminished. Trump has even made it sound disgraceful. So please, Mo; tell me where Christie has publicly disagreed with that assessment. We could then discuss his insights more fruitfully. |
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Bob |
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Dictator Acts |
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Mo 15:39 Thanks for that clarification. That was not a disagreement, but a parallel argument. We are pointing out two different aspects of the same fact; Christie is pointing at the manifestation, I am pointing at the cause. |
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Shiva 20:04 You're fighting the last war, not this current one. Trump has made it clear that he doesn't bother about such things as 'authority', like the Bushes or Ford or Reagan might have. His whole life has been based on the simple concept of "I want this result, and I'll do whatever is needed to make it happen." Law means nothing to him except as a tool for his whims or an annoyance to be ignored. That's why he wanted SCOTUS to grant him immunity, as a bolt-hole in case things went crooked. Sorry, Shiva, but it is starting to look like Trump won't voluntarily stop short of a power grab. The only other possibilities I see are:- 1. Death in office. Not the option I would prefer, because it would leave the root cause intact. 2. A 'Come to Jesus Moment' by enough Republicans to secure an impeachment and 'guilty' verdict in the Senate. That would be my preferred route, because it would cause the least damage to life, limb and prosperity. But that would require at least some Republicans to join hands with the 'Spawn of Satan' Democrats. I don't think either side trusts to other enough, even if the fate of the nation depends on it. 3. Civil unrest of monumental scale, enough to convince the National Guard to join the People (perhaps prompted by a Governor or two publicly declaring Trump's takeover illegal and re-asserting State control over the National Guard?), while the Armed Forces quite properly refuse to intervene in a domestic political dispute. Perhaps that MIGHT be enough to swing enough Republicans, but it is more likely to do a great deal of damage first. I would expect the more likely result would be even greater polarisation. 4. Secession (or at least, attempted secession) of some states from the Union. But things would need to be REALLY bad for this to happen., so bad that option 3 would look trivial. In other words, America is stuffed, unless some black swan event happens. It's another 1860 moment about to happen. |
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Bob And your "come to Jesus moment" phrase in 21:29 sparked a memory. My sales training manager, Clayton Borges, had what he called "My come to Jesus meeting". Although I never experienced one, I knew a few sales trainers who had and it was apparently a hard-core "my way or the highway" experience. |
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Bob Thank's for clarifying that Bob; and I fully agree with you that trump is the "manifestation" who "created" the masses of politically blind trump lickers with his brilliant con-job actions, so in effect, trump is both the manifestation and the cause --- just like the covid 29 virus, only worse. And unlike Hillary Clinton who announced to the world that" All republicans are decerpeds" and didn't bother to apologize for it; Christy's political acumen was well displayed when he blamed his opponent instead of his potential voter base should he run for POTUS in 2028. And you're and Hillary are likely pointing at over 80% of us Americans when you say that "America as a culture is both ignorant and arrogant and/or decrepedry, and that's a bad idea if your running for political office. |
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Mo 13:36 There's a lot of truth in that statement. Politics is very much about self-reinforcing feedbacks. But every cycle has to have seeds waiting for it before it can grow. The 'seed' in the current Trumpist cycle was nothing that Trump himself planted. He was simply rat-cunning (and sufficiently amoral) to see the chink and push his crowbar into it. That chink is that America is full of the promise of "Everybody is equal". but the fact is that America is among the least egalitarian societies in the developed world; perhaps even topping that list. The unwashed masses know this in their bones, but have been programmed to distrust anything that might improve their lot as 'the thin edge of Communism'. Their only remaining option is to retain unequal societal structures, but to turn against the individuals who 'control' them. Thus their dependence upon 'experts' while simultaneously hating them and distrusting them. No amount of logic or evidence will change this in their minds, because using 'logic' and 'evidence' is how 'experts' dazzle their victims with bulls**t. Better to trust 'common sense' and the bare assertion of someone who says what you want to hear. It also explains the power of 'Deep State' memes and conspiracy theories in their folklore; that's what malicious 'experts' would do, eh? Better to trust non-experts, and Trump provides plenty of those in his administration. If any of them actually show expertise (such as Good Buddy Elon rubbishing the 'Big Beautiful Bill'), then out they go! So Trump is certainly pumping up this vicious cycle of ignorance, but the seeds were there long before he first declared his candidacy. <when you say that "America as a culture is both ignorant and arrogant and/or decrepedry, and that's a bad idea if your running for political office.> Quite true, which is why I can say it. I'm never going to run for office. But those who DO run for office shouldn't say it; they should just recognise it and accept it the same way a farmer recognises a swamp. Farm the rest of your property, and while you're doing that take action to drain the swamp. Tell the folks that you're NOT introducing 'Socialist Medicine', but improving national productivity by ensuring less absenteeism due to sickness, and a healthy kids learn better than sick kids, giving them better employment prospects. Tell them that prisons are much more expensive to run than even the best schools; so giving kids the ability to take well-paid jobs is cheaper for the taxpayer than letting them think that casual labouring or crime is their best chance of making a good living. It's all in how you present your case. |
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Bob It's approaching my bed-time now, so I'm hitting the sack and will attempt recovery tomorrow, but don't worry Mate: I agree with most of what you said in your 15:31, even though I disagree that trump's brave new USA is currently as bad as you say --- it's currently merely swaying a bit, but it's headed bad times it if we don't find a way to fix it PRONTO! Alas: Fixing it seems almost impossible at the moment, and my worry is that we democrats might need to rely on republicans like Christie and maybe a few others to to turn our current heading around, because trump's followers listen better to Christie and he has the ability to beat trump in a debate. |
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Bob The good news is that trump's actions still have little effect on my every-day life, because I'm accustomed and prepared for prices going up every year, etc. |
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Mo 20:45 To me, that's not a cause for worry. Although I consider myself a Progressive, I'm no Radical. Change has to be managed carefully, with checkpoints, ongoing monitoring, etc, to make sure it is having the desired effect. Conservatives are right when they say that change can be disruptive, which means expensive, wasteful and sometimes chaotic. So a few intelligent and constructive Conservative thinkers are usually an asset in managing change. The problem in USA is that polarisation which either stops progress completely, or triggers wholesale changes that haven't been thought through and properly planned, carried through in a in a rush for fear the window of opportunity might slam shut tomorrow. America needs a sensible middle. |
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Bob |
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Bob And for your "middle road" party, you recommended: We've been trying to do that for decades, and we almost did it with Ross Perot, but republicans and democrats ganged-up on him and convinced many of us that he was an idiot simply because he was a near spitting image Alfred E Neuman === See Mad Magazine's mascot. www.gettyimages.com And here's Ross Perot looking like Alfred E. Neuman. www.google.com |
