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lord_shiva
24-Aug-25, 05:28

Separation?
<<You seem to be trying to separate the capabilities of the human brain from biology. I don’t think it works, especially without God.>>

I thought that was what YOU were trying to do. I’m saying the brain evolved, and provided you the example of the FOXP2 gene associated with speech. Music involves a composer and a listener (sometimes one and the same, but generally an audience). Landing on the moon requires teamwork. Making a rifle involves communication between miners, metal smiths, black powder chemists, and so on. All of this communication comes courtesy of a gene that proved beneficial to communities, but would be largely useless to sole individuals.

Whether humans murdered cousin species or simply out competed them for resources may never be known, but thanks to this gene our species became capable of engaging in the tasks permitting us to build pyramids, engage in agriculture, invent language and writing, and the other things laying the groundwork for all further technological progress. The gene conferred an advantage leading to liberty from simply adapting to environment to modifying the environment.
lord_shiva
24-Aug-25, 05:40

Bonobos vs. Chimpanzees
Our species diverged from that line before the bonobos and chimps split. But a critical difference between these two species are that the bonobos are highly promiscuous. They have sex all the time, engaging in non procreative coitus, female on female frottage, and so on. The chimpanzees, in contrast, are known to wage war and kill each other from time to time. This warlike behavior was immortalized in the opening scenes of 2001: A Space Odyssey.

Our species s more like the chimps in that regard. Political, geographic, or religious differences are enough to propel us into industrial murder. Right now a war criminal wishes to erase the cultural differences between his tribe and Ukraine. Another war criminal is committing genocide against the Palestinians. The Nazis were famous for ethnic cleansing of Jews, Poles, and Rom (gypsies).

That blood lust has fueled a huge amount of technological innovation, from bows and arrows to rifles, rockets, and nuclear weapons.
victoriasas
24-Aug-25, 06:07

<<I thought that was what YOU were trying to do.>>

No idea why you thought that.

<<I’m saying the brain evolved, and provided you the example of the FOXP2 gene associated with speech.>>

Numerous animal species have the FOXP2 gene as well.

<<Music involves a composer and a listener (sometimes one and the same, but generally an audience). Landing on the moon requires teamwork. Making a rifle involves communication between miners, metal smiths, black powder chemists, and so on. All of this communication comes courtesy of a gene that proved beneficial to communities, but would be largely useless to sole individuals.>>

Why are you arguing against a point I never made? Have animal communities landed on the moon, built skyscrapers, composed symphonies, built airplanes and cars? Why not? If humans can do it, why can’t they?

<<Whether humans murdered cousin species or simply out competed them for resources may never be known, but thanks to this gene our species became capable of engaging in the tasks permitting us to build pyramids, engage in agriculture, invent language and writing, and the other things laying the groundwork for all further technological progress. The gene conferred an advantage leading to liberty from simply adapting to environment to modifying the environment.>>

Numerous animal species have the gene as well.
victoriasas
24-Aug-25, 06:11

<<That blood lust has fueled a huge amount of technological innovation, from bows and arrows to rifles, rockets, and nuclear weapons.>>

And where does this blood lust come from? If it’s genetic in origin, why don’t all humans have it? In fact, I’d wager most humans *don’t* have it.
lord_shiva
24-Aug-25, 06:20

Most Don’t?
The Milgram obedience experiments (1960s)
In these controversial social psychology experiments, participants were led to believe they were part of a "learning" study but were actually being tested on obedience.
Procedure: A participant ("teacher") was instructed by an authority figure ("experimenter") to deliver electric shocks to a confederate ("learner") every time they answered a question incorrectly. The shocks were fake, but the participant did not know this.
Results: A surprising number of participants (65% in one version) obeyed the experimenter's commands to administer the highest voltage shocks, despite hearing the learner's scripted, distressed reactions.
Legacy: The Milgram experiments are a landmark in social psychology, demonstrating the powerful influence of authority. Due to the psychological distress caused to participants, the study led to stricter ethical guidelines for human research.

End Gemini quote.
lord_shiva
24-Aug-25, 06:24

Critical Difference
The FOXP2 gene is not unique to humans. It is found in many other vertebrates, including songbirds, mice, and even fish. While the human FOXP2 gene does have some differences compared to other species, it is highly conserved across vertebrates. These differences, particularly two amino acid substitutions between humans and chimpanzees, are thought to play a role in the evolution of speech and language in humans.
Here's a more detailed explanation:
Highly Conserved:
The FOXP2 gene is remarkably similar across a wide range of species, indicating its importance for basic biological functions.
Not Unique to Humans:
Despite its association with speech and language development in humans, FOXP2 is present in many other animals.
Evolutionary Changes:
The two amino acid differences between human and chimpanzee FOXP2 are thought to have arisen during human evolution and may be linked to the development of speech and language capabilities.

End Gemini quote.
victoriasas
24-Aug-25, 06:28

I think you’re incorrectly conflating blood lust with obedience to authority.

Fortunately for Christians, we have an authority that transcends fallible and fallen human beings.
lord_shiva
24-Aug-25, 06:42

Crusades
No confusion. Milgram participants were not coerced into torturing or killing, the way Nazi SS officers were. Japanese officers tended to be pretty brutal to their own corps, stimulating gross mistreatment of prisoners. While US POWs had it really bad at their hands, the Chinese were treated far worse, with widespread rape and murder.

History repeated with the Christians raping and slaughtering Muslims in Kosovo. My conservative friends were extremely upset when Clinton intervened.
victoriasas
24-Aug-25, 06:51

94+ million killed by atheists/evolutionists
Tell me how the alleged Christians (I say “alleged” because I don’t know if they were Christians or not) killing hundreds of Muslims and Catholics in the Kosovo war compares with the unprovoked slaughter of 94+ million people by atheists/evolutionists in communist governments in the 20th century.
victoriasas
24-Aug-25, 07:06

From Wiki…

<<Numerous war crimes were committed by all sides during the Kosovo War, which lasted from 28 February 1998 until 11 June 1999. According to Human Rights Watch, the vast majority of abuses were attributable to the government of Slobodan Milošević, mainly perpetrated by the Serbian police, the Yugoslav army, and Serb paramilitary units. During the war, regime forces killed between 7,000–9,000 Kosovar Albanians, engaged in countless acts of rape, destroyed entire villages, and displaced nearly one million people.

The Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA or the UÇK) has also been implicated in atrocities, such as kidnappings and summary executions of civilians. Moreover, the NATO bombing campaign has been harshly criticized by human rights organizations and the Serbian government for causing roughly 500 civilian casualties.>>

en.m.wikipedia.org

BTW, it appears from a brief Google search that Milosevic was not a Christian and likely was an atheist.
victoriasas
24-Aug-25, 07:12

From AI…

<<AI Overview

Slobodan Milošević was an atheist and communist who manipulated ethnic and religious divisions for political power. Despite being the son of an Orthodox religious preacher, he never embraced the church.

Key aspects of Milošević's relationship with religion:

Atheism and communism: As an adult, he was a dedicated Communist Party member and functionary. His wife, Mirjana Marković, was also a prominent communist. This background put him at odds with traditional religious institutions.

Political tool: He did not hold personal religious convictions but exploited ethnic and religious nationalism to secure and consolidate power. He deliberately fueled religious and ethnic divisions in the Balkans for political gain.

Relationship with the Serbian Orthodox Church: The Milošević regime gave preferential treatment and media access to the Serbian Orthodox Church, using religious symbols to validate his political agenda. The relationship was strained, however, as the Church criticized his policies of ethnic cleansing. In 1998, his government even closed Serbian Orthodox churches that were outspoken against his regime.

Context of the Yugoslav Wars: Observers note that religion was a tool used by Milošević and other political actors to nationalize their people during the Yugoslav Wars, rather than being the inherent cause of the conflict itself.>>
victoriasas
24-Aug-25, 07:15

In case you missed it…

<<According to Human Rights Watch, the vast majority of abuses were attributable to the government of Slobodan Milošević…>>

<<Slobodan Milošević was an atheist and communist who manipulated ethnic and religious divisions for political power.>>
victoriasas
24-Aug-25, 08:08

“We Were Created to Know Jesus | World's Highest IQ Record Holder”

youtu.be

Video is 4:03
lord_shiva
24-Aug-25, 11:58

Utter Irrelevancy
100% of the people committing atrocities drank mother’s milk as infants (with very rare baby formula exceptions). That is a more relevant thought than your asinine dictum they accepted basic biology as an accurate science.

Slobodan Milošević had been a communist, which is also largely irrelevant. Have you never read that Bible you profess to study? That’s where the idea of ethnic cleansing originates, from God wiping out Earth’s entire human population save one highly inbred family to His smiting Soddom and Gomorrah, and demanding the Israelites purge Canaan.

Quoting Gemini:
Serbs are predominantly Eastern Orthodox Christians. No religious or other justification for genocide is legitimate. The use of religious rhetoric to justify the genocide and ethnic cleansing of Bosniaks during the 1990s is condemned by international law and human rights standards.
The religion of Serbs
The majority of Serbs belong to the Serbian Orthodox Church (SOC), a self-governing branch of Eastern Orthodox Christianity.
Dominant confession: The 2011 census reported that over 80% of Serbia's population identifies as Orthodox Christian, with the vast majority being members of the SOC.

How religious rhetoric was used to justify the Bosnian genocide
In the 1990s, Serb nationalist politicians and some Orthodox clergy employed religious and historical myths to dehumanize Bosnian Muslims and justify violence against them.
Manufacturing an existential threat: Propaganda promoted the idea that Bosniaks (Slavic Muslims) posed an existential threat to Serbs and their Orthodox faith. This narrative distorted history to frame the Bosnian genocide as a defensive act.
"Christoslavic ideology": A specific ideology suggested that Slavs were inherently Christian and that converting to Islam was a betrayal of one's race and faith, thereby defining Muslim Bosniaks as an "alien" other.
Utilizing historical myths: The historical Battle of Kosovo in 1389, a conflict against the Ottoman Empire, was reinterpreted as a "cosmic battle" between good (Serb Orthodoxy) and evil (Bosnian Muslims). This collapsed the past and present to create a sense of urgent, ancient vengeance.
Church involvement: While the Serbian Orthodox Church did not initiate the genocide, some clerics and official church publications lent moral and religious authority to the actions of the state. Some individual clergy did voice public dissent, but many publicly blessed or supported the genocidal campaigns.

End quote.

Contrast this with biology. The Nazi pogrom was based on cultural identification. Darwin himself argued against abusing science to justify the criminal acts perpetrated by Christians, most notably devout southern slavers who routinely beat more secular northern abolitionists in religious debates.

Your Bible talks about how owners are to treat slaves, and justifications for slavery, yet none of the Ten Commandments or Old Testament Law condemns the practice. God sure missed the ark on that glaring issue.

lord_shiva
24-Aug-25, 12:03

Communism and Atheism
Neither, Marx, Engels, or Lenin ever incorporated mass murder in their political writing. Those acts were perpetrated by Mao Tse Tung (Guinness Book of World Records first place) and Josef Stalin (second place) against their own people, not against any religious or ethnic minority (Hitler, somewhat distant third place).

Gemini explains: Mao Zedong, the Chinese revolutionary leader, focused his ideology on human, not biological, evolution, emphasizing continuous social and political transformation through class struggle and revolution. While not directly addressing Darwinian evolution or biology, Mao believed in the idea of societal progress and change, applying concepts of perpetual revolution to overcome what he saw as capitalist tendencies and counter-revolutionary elements in China. His primary concern was the "evolution" of society towards communism, guided by his interpretation of Marxism, rather than any biological theory of human development.

End quote.
victoriasas
24-Aug-25, 12:26

<<Communism and Atheism
Neither, Marx, Engels, or Lenin ever incorporated mass murder in their political writing.>>

Neither did the Gospel writers nor the Apostle Paul incorporate mass murder in the New Testament. But you attempted to link Christianity to widespread murder and rape in the Kosovo War, when it turns out the vast majority of abuses in that war were committed by Slobodan Milosevic, an atheist and communist.

<<Those acts were perpetrated by Mao Tse Tung (Guinness Book of World Records first place) and Josef Stalin (second place) against their own people,>>

Sure were. 94+ million in the 20th century. That’s a lot of bodies to lay at the doorstep of communism, atheism and the theory of molecules-to-man evolution.

<<not against any religious or ethnic minority (Hitler, somewhat distant third place)>>

And that makes mass murder more acceptable? That the mass murders were motivated by other than religion or ethnicity?

<<Gemini explains: Mao Zedong, the Chinese revolutionary leader, focused his ideology on human, not biological, evolution, emphasizing continuous social and political transformation through class struggle and revolution. While not directly addressing Darwinian evolution or biology, Mao believed in the idea of societal progress and change, applying concepts of perpetual revolution to overcome what he saw as capitalist tendencies and counter-revolutionary elements in China. His primary concern was the "evolution" of society towards communism, guided by his interpretation of Marxism, rather than any biological theory of human development.>>

Communism and atheism go together like peanut butter and jelly. In fact, atheism was a litmus test for working in a communist government.in the 20th century (and probably still is.)

How do you suppose atheists explain the origin of species since they don’t believe in the existence of God? Hitler was a well-known evolutionist and based his sick and twisted views on the superiority of the white race on Darwin’s “Descent of Man.”

You want me to quote from that book?
victoriasas
24-Aug-25, 12:30

<<Utter Irrelevancy
100% of the people committing atrocities drank mother’s milk as infants (with very rare baby formula exceptions). That is a more relevant thought than your asinine dictum they accepted basic biology as an accurate science.>>

Not at all. When you think humans are animals and no accountability exists off the earth, it’s much easier to kill them. Which is how you wind up with atheists killing 94+ million people in the 20th century.
victoriasas
24-Aug-25, 12:40

<<Slobodan Milošević had been a communist, which is also largely irrelevant. Have you never read that Bible you profess to study?>>

Of course I have. Have you? Or do you rely on atheist blogs to tell you what the Bible says?

<<That’s where the idea of ethnic cleansing originates, from God wiping out Earth’s entire human population>>

How is that ethnic cleansing when nearly everyone was wiped out? And they were wiped out because humanity was unbelievably evil and violent and the genetic line (from which the Saviour was to be born) had been corrupted by fallen angels (demons) mating with human women.

<<save one highly inbred family to His smiting Soddom and Gomorrah, and demanding the Israelites purge Canaan.>>

Israel’s war against Canaan had nothing to do with “ethnic cleansing.” The Canaanites were exceedingly sinful and violent, worshipped false gods and occupied a land God had given to the Israelites.
lord_shiva
24-Aug-25, 15:03

Ethnic Cleansing
<< Israel’s war against Canaan had nothing to do with “ethnic cleansing.” >>

Every last man, woman, child, sheep and goat? “You’re squatting on our land!”

<<The Canaanites were exceedingly sinful and violent, worshipped false gods and occupied a land God had given to the Israelites.>>

That’s what they all say, to justify their evil. Sounds like you didn’t read the Gemini quotes any more carefully than anything I write, or that Bible you proclaim such fondness for.
lord_shiva
24-Aug-25, 15:06

Fallen Angels?
<<Humanity was unbelievably evil and violent and the genetic line (from which the Saviour was to be born) had been corrupted by fallen angels (demons) mating with human women.>>

Wow. That is detached from reality.

“You know, the hardest part of anyone’s life comes when they have to kill a loved one, because they are the devil.”
victoriasas
24-Aug-25, 15:09

I rely on the Bible for Biblical questions, not AI.

But given your obnoxiousness, I think I’m done communicating with you.

Why is it atheists and other Christ deniers can’t discuss the Bible and molecules-to-man evolution without being obnoxious?
lord_shiva
24-Aug-25, 15:14

Zero Accountability
<<When you think humans are animals and no accountability exists off the earth, it’s much easier to kill them.>>

Or when you believe Deus Vult.

Humans ARE animals, but biology suggests we are more accountable than religion does. Religion justifies exploiting natural resources like there was no tomorrow, since there won’t be. Even you think “the end is nigh.” If Jesus is going to save us from ourselves we need demonstrate no concern over climate. Religious zealots from Jim Inhofe throughout the GOP have expressed the notion God is in control of the weather, therefore human activity cannot possibly upset God’s creation.
victoriasas
24-Aug-25, 15:19

Detached from reality?

You’re the one who said God flooded the earth and spared only Noah and his family. I was simply telling you the reasons based on the Bible, which was *your source* for posting about the Great Flood. You want to cite the Bible in one passage but claim another passage is detached from reality?

Seems contradictory, don’t you think?

And the only ones in history committing mass murder on a nearly incomprehensible scale are atheists, communists and evolutionists. They murdered 94+ million in the 20th century alone. And not in war and not foreigners. Their own citizens. Let that sink in.
victoriasas
24-Aug-25, 15:24

Humans aren’t animals and Christianity doesn’t advocate or justify exploiting natural resources. You’re mixing up what fallible men say with the infallible Word of God.

And no, I don’t think the end is nigh. I think the Rapture is nigh. But Christ deniers have seven years of hell on earth to look forward to before they go to an actual hell.
lord_shiva
24-Aug-25, 16:28

Humans Are Mammals
Humans are mammals. Your mother is a eutherian.

Mammals are animals. We are close enough to other primates it is possible to use them for blood transfusions and other things. The fossil evidence coupled with genetics reveals our shared ancestry with other species. We are animals, mate. Facts are facts.
lord_shiva
24-Aug-25, 16:33

No Flood
There was no global flood. Demons never mated with humans. Snakes and donkeys cannot talk, nor can any of the other animals the Bible confers speech upon. A man cannot survive three days inside a fish. That is crazy.

Our world is billions of years old. 4.5 billion, plus. Eukaryotic organisms all share common ancestry. Biologists had nothing to do with political pogroms. Your attacks on science are duly noted.

victoriasas
24-Aug-25, 18:35

Your “facts” are fiction.

From AI…

<<No, humans generally cannot receive blood transfusions from animals.

This is because animals have different blood proteins and antigens than humans, which can trigger an immune reaction in the recipient. This reaction can lead to severe complications, including: Transfusion reaction, Hemolysis (destruction of red blood cells), and Organ damage.

There have been some experimental studies using animal blood in humans, but these have been limited and largely unsuccessful. In the future, it may be possible to develop genetically modified animals whose blood is more compatible with humans, but this is still a long way off.

It's important to note that there are exceptions to this rule. For example, some animals, such as chimpanzees, have blood that is very similar to human blood and may be used in emergency situations. However, this is extremely rare.>>

BTW, you never responded to the bogus claim that the human genome and chimp genome are 98 percent to 99 percent similar; that the figure is actually 84 percent, which makes the claim humans and chimps evolved from an ape-like ancestor nonsense on stilts due to the evolutionary timeframe in which this was supposed to have occurred.

But you don’t respond to a lot of facts that go against your erroneous beliefs. You just head to a wishing well, toss some pennies in and wish those inconvenient facts away.
victoriasas
24-Aug-25, 18:49

<<No Flood
There was no global flood.>>

You know scientists have found marine fossils on top of mountains, including a whale fossil on top of a mountain in California? Yes, I know. Plates shifting to and from created those mountains from the ocean floor 🙄

<<Demons never mated with humans.>>

Sounds incredible, I know.

<<Snakes and donkeys cannot talk, nor can any of the other animals the Bible confers speech upon.>>

We already went over this – it’s the spirits possessing the animals that are responsible for the talking. Remember Lindley Street in Bridgeport, CT, which you immediately declared a hoax after tossing a penny into your wishing well?

<<A man cannot survive three days inside a fish. That is crazy.>>

You’re still limiting God to what man can do…

“But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.”

(Matthew 19:26)

<<Our world is billions of years old. 4.5 billion, plus.>>

Maybe, maybe not. The age of the earth isn’t mentioned in the Bible. The 6,000-year-old figure cited by YECs is manufactured from genealogies.

<<Eukaryotic organisms all share common ancestry. Biologists had nothing to do with political pogroms. Your attacks on science are duly noted.>>

Darwin’s ideas regarding survival of the fittest and the superiority of the white race were cited as motivation for at least two genocides.
victoriasas
24-Aug-25, 18:56

Good YouTube short…

“Who are your REAL FRIENDS? Here’s what the Bible says… “

youtube.com

Video is 47 seconds
lord_shiva
24-Aug-25, 20:19

Obnoxiousness
<< Why is it atheists and other Christ deniers can’t discuss the Bible and molecules-to-man evolution without being obnoxious?>>

Oh, listen to you go—calling mass murderers “evolutionists.” LOL.
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