|
« TAP TO LOG IN
|
Play online chess!
MAGA Ascendant
« Back to club forum
| |||||||
| From | Message | ||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
dmaestro 12-Dec-24, 13:49 |
 MAGA AscendantIt’s pretty clear tone deaf Biden led Democrats to a long period of minority status. |
||||||
|
You guys never fail to amuse. |
||||||
|
We managed pretty well, with the crossbenches forcing the government of the day (of both flavours) to ameliorate some of the most objectionable aspects of their programmes without choking the system into gridlock. But then John Howard, the Conservative Prime Minister, managed to get a Senate majority in his own right. The conservatives could do whatever Howard wanted! Three years later, at the next election, the conservatives were hammered into the ground and Howard became the second Prime Minister in Australia's history to lose his own (formerly safe) seat. When will politicians realise that the average guy isn't an extremist? What seems obvious to The Faithful is often unacceptable to the typical voter. A clear vision of the future is usually a narrow vision of the future, and needs a second or third opinion the make it workable. Every government needs an effective Opposition as a reality check. That's the single biggest problem with how American politics is structured. It makes it impossible for a 'middle party' to get established. Without that, America will swing from one extreme to the other as voters try one side, don't like it, and then rush to the opposite side in desperation. Now Trump has both Houses of Congress and is enforcing hyper-strict discipline, there are no 'guard rails'. Those guard rails are there to protect the driver as much as the innocent bystanders. Without them, Trump is very likely to destroy his own regime, just as Howard did in Australia and dictators around the world have discovered eventually. Pity it will do so much damage to America and the rest of the world in the process. |
||||||
|
dmaestro 12-Dec-24, 20:04 |
Thumper I knew the uneducated dupes and rural MAGA hicks have a huge systemic advantage and you have to keep it simple and fear based with them, something the right is better at, and that means constant danger from them and is why I prefer a divorce. They are too different and will destroy America. All I can say is MAGA will get what it deserves. It’s fated and Trump was the man of destiny. There is nothing for me to learn from this anymore except fate rules. |
||||||
|
dmaestro 12-Dec-24, 21:05 |
This is a long read but good analysis. The authoritarian right known here as MA MAGA has been ascendent for a while. It’s adopted a democratic facade but at its core is authoritarian. And it now controls the USA. The key insight is this: “…Democracy seems so normal, from a contemporary perspective, that it’s easy to lose sight of just how stunning this transformation was. Some variant of authoritarianism has been the default setting of human government for thousands of years. But in a little more than half a century, democracy went from nearly extinct — just 12 democracies survived the Second World War — to globally dominant. No single political system had ever conquered the entire planet so rapidly or so thoroughly. After the Berlin Wall fell in 1989, it appeared that the 20th-century triumph of democracy was complete. Having defeated fascism, its rival on the right, and communism, its rival on the left, Western-style liberal democracy truly faced no challenger. Its spread around the globe seemed assured. And for a few years, it was. The 1990s saw some of the most significant activity of democracy’s third wave, including across nearly all of Eastern Europe. Former communist states and Soviet republics — like Czechia, Hungary, and Estonia—democratized with remarkable speed. In some countries, the new democratic systems appeared to be fully stable in less than a decade. In ideological terms, the world appeared mostly Americanized in the sense that democracy was the barely contested benchmark by which governments were measured. Culturally and locally specific antidemocratic ideologies remained influential in countries like China and Iran. But those governments did not present any kind of plausible or attractive alternative vision for most people around the world. On the whole, the language of democracy — human rights, elections, free speech, individual autonomy — became the assumed argot of global politics. It was during this time that the phrase “end of history” entered the lexicon, thanks to a 1989 essay and subsequent book by political theorist Francis Fukuyama. Fukuyama argued that liberal democracy was the ultimate stage in the evolution of society. Fundamental forces in history, including deep human desires for recognition and equality, had buoyed it to global dominance. Fukuyama did not claim that this state of affairs would necessarily last forever. Instead, he predicted, the very triumph of the system contained the seeds of a future crisis. “No regime — no ‘socioeconomic system’ — is able to satisfy all men in all places. This includes liberal democracy,” he wrote in the book. “Dissatisfaction arises precisely where democracy has triumphed most completely: it is a dissatisfaction with liberty and equality. Thus those who remain dissatisfied will always have the potential to restart history.” Some of this “dissatisfaction” was visible soon after the Cold War’s end….” “…As democracy’s reach expanded across the globe, so, too, did political contests over inequality. That competition, one way or another, brought tensions over status and identity to the fore of the political conversation — ideal circumstances for the reactionary spirit to threaten democracies old and new. This is the underlying structural reality that helped the authoritarian right break through in country after country. Under such conditions, all it would take to start a reactionary fire was some kind of spark: an external shock, a high-visibility left-wing push for social change, canny leadership on the reactionary side, or some combination of all three (as in the United States in the post-Obama era). The 2010s saw a series of such trigger events around the world: decades of democratic expansion and evolving reactionary responses leading to a simultaneous surge in support for reactionary factions…” Fukuyama’s warning has proved prescient. Frustration with the dominant era of equality and liberal rights has kept history going, with the reactionary spirit threatening democracy even in its strongholds.” The fall of the USA to such reactionary anti democracy forces bodes ill for this country and the free world but we can trace the strategy back to the 1950s here. Relentless execution led to today’s accension.’ |
||||||
|
DM 21:05 Your article is good, but it misses what I think is a vital point. Many people might well be dissatisfied with liberal government, but only because it's all they know and they feel as though they're entitled to live in paradise. Once they have to swallow the full spoonful of authoritarian government they will spit it out as fast as they can. Is it 'Big Yellow Taxi' that has the line "You don't know what you've got 'til it's gone"? I've lifted this from an article about the South Korean President's attempt to proclaim martial law, and how it blew up in his face... <Even if enough MPs vote to impeach Yoon this weekend, his party, now divided and widely detested, faces political oblivion. "We don't even know who we are or what we stand for anymore," one exasperated party official told me.> That is the razor edge that the GOP is now on with Trump. They won the presidential election, but with a dangerous candidate. And the current GOP is even more in his thrall that the South Korean PPP is to their president. Trump is even more dangerous than Yoon, and will simply do whatever comes into his mind without consulting anyone. Or if he does consult, only for comments on HOW to do it, not whether or not it should be done. So any advice that Trump might ask for will only re-assure him that his idea is a good one. When Trumpism over-reaches itself, it will not just fall; it will shatter. I don't expect it to be too long coming. I only hope and pray that Cheney and other genuine conservatives will hear the call of duty and re-build the GOP from the foundations up. |
||||||
|
dmaestro 12-Dec-24, 22:52 |
Bob 21:50 |
||||||
|
DM 22:52 But I have seen in history plenty of equally arrogant cultures brought to their knees by that same attitude. You would know from your reading of Rev. 18:2,3 “‘Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!’ She has become a dwelling for demons and a haunt for every impure spirit, a haunt for every unclean bird, a haunt for every unclean and detestable animal. For all the nations have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries. The kings of the earth committed adultery with her, and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries.” I would suggest that the greater the deception, even self-deception, the greater the hatred when that deception becomes manifest. Especially so among the ignorant, who would take it out on their scapegoats regardless of how eager they were to follow them. And as Judas sings in 'Jesus Christ, Superstar', "All you followers are blind, too much heaven on their mind, And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied." |
||||||
|
dmaestro 13-Dec-24, 10:46 |
Over and over Dems have saved the UsA from right wing excess yet the balance of power keeps shifting MAGA extreme. I am now convinced this is a mistake. Never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake. It would have been better to let Trump win in 2020 and watch the failure than let an over the hill inarticulate Biden muddle the situation given the inability of most to remember and assess where we would have been. MAGA should be allowed to utterly fail or the right will continue to appeal to too many of them. All we did was convince a majority we were the problem. And we have to give up on a unified country and focus on autonomy. The rope MAGA and those like Thumper are hanging us will is the dentralized government we strengthened for wider good and the fallacy of “unity” with a too different aggressive population like the Thumpers. To each their own. |
||||||
|
Dmaestro Actually, Biden did a fine job of explaining. It is just that no one (except liberals) was listening. Biden got a LOT of cooperation from Republicans— at least enough to accomplish his goals on infrastructure, drug price reduction, rebuilding the economy, reducing unemployment, and other things. The funny part about infrastructure is that the Republicans legislators opposing it were happy and eager to claim credit for its successes in their respective states, like the utter hypocrites they are. The issue is that the electorate is uniformed and happily ignorant. They get their misinformation from social media infected with Russian agitprop, just like Tulsi, or from their local churches. Evangelical churches are artesian fountains of abject stupidity. |
||||||
|
Look at Thumper |
||||||
|
dmaestro 13-Dec-24, 16:31 |
|
||||||
|
Audience Biden, despite being three years older, speaks in complete sentences. I listened to him describe mRNA vaccine production and he did an incredible job. I could not have gone into that level of detail myself. Unlike Donald, Biden is clearly intelligent. The critical difference is that red necked America isn't tuned in to anything he says. They have their "F* Brandon" bumper stickers and NASCAR flags and that is all they know. They hiss and boo any time Biden's image flashes across their radar, so no message can possibly percolate through the morass of tobacco juice and Keystone or Pabst Blue Ribbon. No matter how intelligently crafted, any blue message falls on deaf red ears. And if you're too intelligent--you get get banned as some sort of agitator. "Holy S*! All our arguments are getting demolished! We got to BAN that guy!" |
||||||
|
DM 16:31 There are NG types in every country. The critical difference is that America puts them into positions of trust. There are too many 'checks and balances' against effective government but not enough gatekeepers against imbecility in the American system. Sure, we in Australia managed to get Tony Abbott as our Prime Minister some twelve years ago, mainly because he ran an almost Trump-esque campaign of scares and misinformation. He was even called by his own backers 'an attack dog', he was so aggressive and over-stated. But once he got into the Big Chair his own party realised he really didn't have a clue about how to do something constructive. He was deposed by his own followers within two years. |
||||||
|
Our (US) Tony Abbott We don't have a way of getting rid of him since Mitch McConnell refused to take a rational stand. If inciting insurrection is insufficient grounds for impeachment, the provision in our constitution is rendered meaningless. What crime could a president commit to merit impeachment more offensive than traitorously attacking our own government? Had he only taken a stand, enough of his party would have joined him to block any future run of the treasonous clown. Now Donald has taken over the financing of the GOP, the party chairmanship, and everything else. He owns the souls of virtually every Republican in the senate. They all know they will be primaried if the oppose him--he doesn't care if his pick loses in the general. He knows he can ditch almost anyone in his party, given the loyalty of his mindless minion army. We are in for a rough four years. |
||||||
|
Shiva 17:37 Yep. That has driven their value through the floor. Most of them will doubtless get re-elected, given the tribal nature of American politics; but I expect there will be enough voters in enough swing states to prevent the GOP from controlling the Senate after the next mid-terms. Probably the House as well, but I don't think DJT is too worried about the House. He knows the Democrats won't cut off funding for government programmes, but it is the Senate that has to approve his incompetent appointments. So make that 'a rough two years'; hope that the inertia of American institutions is enough to limit the damage in that time. |
||||||
|
dmaestro 14-Dec-24, 12:04 |
|
||||||
|
DM 12:04 If that statement were true, then why did the Union still exist before Trump took over the GOP? Almost quarter a millennium of (more-or-less) continuity. Need I point out that in 1770 there was no effective remedy for England determining the laws of the American colonies? Yet Washington and his associates managed to find one. So it is obvious from experience that there IS an 'effective remedy' for a Trump. At least one effective remedy. But there are others as well, short of war. The most obvious is an electoral system that represents the balance of opinions within society. You have all heard me bang on about how the American political system actively creates and encourages division with its 'winner-take-all' voting system, often the 'winner' being someone with the support of only 30% of eligible voters. "Getting the vote out" is done by both sides by exaggerating how evil the other side is, how much they hate America. And how the failure to provide preferential voting forces over-simplification to one extreme or the other, rather than providing nuance. Nothing in the Constitution prevents Proportional Representation and Preferential Voting; the only roadblock there is the will to introduce it. Next is the sloppy phrasing of the Constitution. It reads as a teenager's wish list rather than a tight legal document. You don't have to change the meaning to sort this out; you only have to re-word it so the meaning is clear. But too many don't want the wording to be clear; they prefer to have a SCOTUS that can rule one way, and decades later dismiss that ruling as 'egregious'. Third is the American voter. Partisanship beats critical thinking in 75% of cases. Partly this is because of the influence of the first point, that the system encourages extremism, but that would mean nothing unless it fell on fertile ground. This permits the most incompetent and corrupt to remain in positions of authority, because being 'one of us' becomes more important than being competent and just. Fourth is the American court system. The appointment of judges directly by politicians is a sure-fire method of politicising the courts. Having them elected by the voters at large (specially in a system where 'getting out the vote' is so important) also forces them to become political. The so-called 'separation of powers' is largely fictional in America today; the only way to stop politicians from owning the electoral process that keeps them in power and the courts that endorse their power is to remove the ability of politicians to decide these matters. Let the legislators set the rules, let the courts enforce them, and let the professional Civil Service do their jobs within those confines. That will ensure apolitical judges, at least in sufficient numbers to make it obvious who the exceptions are and then weed them out. That way you will give yourself a Civil Service and courts that are headed by men and women who have risen through several changes of administration without making themselves the tool of one side and the curse of the other; a truly apolitical Service that operates according to Law instead of partisan considerations. None of these is impossible to achieve. Even the Constitution can be changed, as it has been repeatedly over the years. There are plenty of effective remedies to Trump. All that's required is people with the will and the dedication to do it, with enough people willing to make the effort and pay the cost to support them. Ah, but that's the problem! Too many Americans have this sense of entitlement. They are Americans, so they somehow DESERVE to have everything just the way they want it, and without too much effort. That's why Trump is so powerful today; so many lower-class Americans resent that they are still poor and getting poorer, too many religious conservatives resent that the rest of society isn't obedient to their religious precepts, too many racists are resentful of anyone with different-coloured skin is more prosperous than 'us real Americans', etc. But they don't ask why this is so; they just 'know' it shouldn't be that way in their mental universe, so they leap to the conclusion that it's because "If I don't get what all Americans deserve, it must be because of some conspiracy!" So Trump presents himself as the man who can give them everything they want, without cost, without effort, without question. When it doesn't work, it's because there's a conspiracy preventing it. Yep. The problem is the American People themselves and their Exceptional American Sense of Entitlement. But don't worry too much. A good dose of Trumpism should be enough to show that it is another dead end, as all quick fixes are. There's no substitute for clear thinking, hard work and dedication. As soon as Americans are left with no other choice, they might try that approach. It has worked in the past. |
||||||
|
Bob 15:15 Because we never had a Trump win election before now. If any ran, people easily saw through him. Every town had its own newspaper in the 19th century, and radio and TV in the 20th. But the saturation and internet have greatly reduced these essential media. Now folks can glom on to highly specialized or refined outlets that publish only what they want to hear. And for the most part, they don’t really connect at all. Your church or social media tells some outrageous lie, and if you question it at all it is easy to find web sites that agree the lie is true. Vaccines cause autism. Climate science is a Chinese hoax created to convert us all into homosexuals. Horse dewormer is an effective treatment and prophylactic against covid. Hilary eats dead babies in satanic rituals in the basement of Comet Ping Pong. Democrats are Marxists, communists, fascists, downright evil people who hate America and are traitors who belong in prison or in FEMA coffins. Biden took bribes from Ukraine and China, and extorted Ukraine to subvert US elections. FBI agents infiltrated the J6 mob and were responsible for the insurrection. Idiots truly believe this vapid stupidity, as though RFK Jr was hardly the only one suffering debilitating brain worm coprophagy. |
||||||
|
Lord Shiva No, the problem is that Trump doesn't need to be reelected. Last time he did and look how that went. He doesn't need anyone anymore (well almost) until he gets set up. And everything I know about narcissists who find themselves needing others to achieve a goal or desired situation. What happens to those people when they no longer need them? The narcissist has a deep seeded resentment against such people. About 2 years in the facade will have been completely dropped. |
||||||
|
Shiva 19:29 You have done no more than put my own suggestion into your own words. I said that the problem is that too many (not all, but too many) Americans assume that they can have what they want without putting in the thinking, planning or effort. Your answer emphasises the 'thinking' part of that triad. |
||||||
|
Reasoning With Stones You have sold me on the need to modify our winner take all system. I’m not sure I would put this one third, though. We need the vote to effect the change you recommend, and educating the voter is an impossible task. You’re talking to Americans here, not people who respect competence or intelligence. Look who we elected! He tried to overthrow our government last time he was in office, and we were powerless to lift a finger to stop him. We were powerless to block him winning another term. While I blame McConnell for lacking the spine to take a principled stand, I’m not sure any decent person could have succeeded. Liz Cheney, possibly. Except she took a stand, and Trump primaried her out of office. Anyone with moral conviction or personal integrity is unwelcome in today’s GOP. These people are unreachable. Are we going to convince Pawnographer, Valley_Forge, Thumper, Noisy, or even Softaire what danger Trump represents? These are all smarter than your average Trump base. Give any Trump supporter a year on GK and their ELO will fall down around 900, on average. 600. PaulAllen22. This guy. He would beat most Trump supporters if he ever finished a game. Honest to God, he tried to overthrow our government and they still came out to support in droves. How could Republicans field a worse candidate? I mean, on top of outright treason he was convicted on 34 counts of falsifying business records to conceal fornicating with a proxy daughter porn star. Point that out and Softaire bans you from NG. “We don’t face reality here!” After he screamed “I’m yuge,” rolled off and fell asleep, Stormy replied, “my name is not Ivanka.” Ok, how can you top credentials like those? If we found Epstein’s Katie Johnson rape tape, Trump’s base would just declare it to be all the more reason he belongs in office. It would blow over just like a pussy grabbing Hollywood Access tape. Damn. When that aired a bunch of Republicans said they could not in good conscience support such a man. They all came around. Katie Johnson wouldn’t cause them to bat an eye. “Why, God gave that little girl to Trump that he might satiate his carnal lust for virgin flesh without sin, MAGA.” Frank would easily defend him. Biden won in 2020. But will Thumper or Softaire agree? No. Democrats obviously cheated and stole the election from the rightful heir. Kari Lake (Voice of America) is hardly alone in saying so. You can’t have a cabinet position unless you kiss the ring and declare Trump the 2020 victor. And if you take a stand on election integrity, prepare to be pilloried. Read primaried. There is no reasoning with this mob. They are beyond reach. Beyond hope. Intellectual zombies, single mindedly feeding off the brains of anyone they can chase down. It is scary. You have some real nut cases in Australia, but they seem widely isolated. Anomalies. Not primary blocs of your electorate. And you don’t have psychotic loon legislators anywhere near as bad as Marjorie Space Laser Greene, gun-toting Lauren Boebert, Tommy Tuberville, Pedophile Matt Gaetz (thank God he’s now relegated to OAN), Paul Gosar, and far too many others. I wish there was some path to initiating the much needed reforms you propose, but there aren’t just thorny brambles over growing the invisible trail, there are billionaires blocking the way with Citizens United funds freely flowing out their greasy palms, buying election results they want to further enrich themselves. |
||||||
|
dmaestro 14-Dec-24, 23:57 |
The closest we cans to Trump was Andrew Jackson his hero and his spoils system. But over the years we developed a culture of restraint based on the idea that when you lost you would suffer the same fate. That changed during the Reagan era when right wing radicals began taking over the GOP. Keep in mind Bush 43 lost primarily because of a revolt which was the precursor to MAGA. en.m.wikipedia.org. The remedy the framers had in mind could not work in a partisan system and George Washington predicted what we see today. The fact is 54% of Americans function around a 6th grade literacy level and most pick news based on what they want to believe. The sophistication of targeted propaganda where MAGA micro targeted messages even if contradicted elsewhere shows the USA is headed for authoritarian rule. |
||||||
|
Shiva 23:11 and DM 23:57 |
||||||
|
dmaestro 17-Dec-24, 10:21 |
To be clearer this is what I am talking about. Most voters don’t have even understand what is going on. They are at a mid grades school level of civic literacy and attention;and right wing media understands that. Democrats lacked the ability to communicate good things and address areas of concern. While Trump keeps up a basic cult drumbeat of throwing whatever sticks to any group. I find MAGA ignorant but Dem communication problems don’t help’ |
||||||
|
Inciting Insurrection End quote. Trump’s J6 speech clearly incited lawless action, though he now avers he will pardon all those involved and sentenced for their crimes. The American people are quite content with this. Violence against a hated political party is now perfectly acceptable, commendable, even. |
||||||
|
bobspringett It's a fine line that is played, the balance between getting donations and making people want to give up engaging. The reality TV star was perfect for both and for both sides. |
||||||
|
|
||||||
|
Money LOL. |
||||||
|
Lord Shiva |
||||||
| |||||||
