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 CitizenshipThis is an interesting situation for us marsupials. Here in Australia, there is curently no 'birthright citizenship'. All persons born in Australia before 20 August 1986 were automatically citizens at birth regardless of the nationalities of their parents. Individuals born in the country after that date receive Australian citizenship at birth if at least one of their parents is an Australian citizen or permanent resident. Children born in Australia to New Zealand citizens since 1 July 2022 also receive Australian citizenship at birth. Foreign nationals may be granted citizenship after living in the country for at least four years, holding permanent residency for one year, and showing proficiency in the English language. But simply being born in Australia, regardless of parentage, does not confer citizenship since 1986. This 'birth' provision was written into the US Constitution to ensure freed slaves after the Civil War were granted full rights. It is a historical accident. Should it be changed? That is a matter of opinion, but if it is to be changed it should be done in accordance with the provisions of the Constitution itself; by a vote of adoption by at least 38 states. I can't see that even being attempted. |
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jonheck 22-Jan-25, 06:57 |
Surely trump has no expectation of getting this one through. Why he threw it out there may not be as clear. How about testing the SCOTUS for loyalty in prep for future less obviously unattainable zingers? A close decision would be nearly as good as a win. As always we gotta look at the money factor for him and the other big money that's lined up with their hands out. It’s not easy to look at the finances of those types, they have a way of squeezing it out when and where your not looking, and their tax receipts would be near useless. What if he does get it through? It would be giving him a ticket to ignore our laws. Would checks and balences kick in, and what would be the source of that final back up we have depended on. <here in Australia there is currently no birth rights citizenship.>?? What you described looks like birth rights with a few additional qualifiers. |
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Jon 06:57 Always true. But with Trump it's more than just money. A lot of it is ego. I get the sense that he does all sorts of absurd things for the same reason a four-year-old might throw a tantrum; to simply get attention. Trump wants every conversation to be about HIM. He has to be constantly in the forefront of every mind. There is also the 'control' factor. He simply likes jerking people around, showing that he has power over them. Watching other people (and specially people in power such as the Danish government) having to spend time and attention responding to him is a demonstration that Trump himself is important. This is the sort of guy that Americans want to represent them. And given that underlying sense of American Exceptionalism and Great Power Arrogance so often evident ("You can't do that to me! I'm an American!"), is it unexpected? It's just the latest version of "Civis Romanus sum!" Everything that makes up the Ugly American is condensed into that man, with none of the generosity or idealism. {<here in Australia there is currently no birth rights citizenship.>?? What you described looks like birth rights with a few additional qualifiers.} The 'birthright' is citizenship by descent, which applies to just about every nation on Earth. The exceptions are limited to children of Kiwis (our Constitution specifically allows for New Zealand to join the Commonwealth of Australia), or registered permanent residents (those on a citizenship path themselves). There is no right arising simply by being born here. A decade or so ago there was a famous case of a family (I think Tamil) in which the parents had been granted 'protection visas' during the Tamil War. They settled in a country town, became model citizens and had children. Then the Tamil War ended, so the government terminated their protection visas and refused them permanent residency. The deportation order included their Australian-born children, since a protection visa is not permanent residency. I recall that the entire town petitioned that they be granted residency, and some friends offered to legally adopt the children so they could stay while the parents went back to Sri Lanka to work through a return. en.wikipedia.org |
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Not Famed They are not famed for their grasp of history, politics, science, or logic either. They have a firm grasp on the absurd. HCL and Ivermectin. Lung disinfectant injections. Whale slaughtering windmills. Battery sharks. California forest conflagrations caused by Jewish Space Lasers. Chinese tornado guns. My God. My species is too fun king stupid to deserve survival. Chinese tornado guns. Seriously. And nuking hurricanes. Groper will put in place idiots willing to test his utterly asinine theories. If Tulsi Gabbard was DefSec she would push the swollen red button for him. I don’t trust Hegseth enough to not. In a drunken stupor he would likely sign off. It is surreal. |
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Constitution be Damned So rescinding the fourteenth, if he succeeds, justifies his rescinding all the rest—any part he chooses to dislike. MAGA. He already has congress under his thumb. Anyone who opposes him gets primaried, and will suffer investigations and phony prosecution. He just has to get the court, already mostly in line, fully under control. They already granted him above mortal law authority. Immunity. It sucks to high heaven our president is no longer subject to the law. That is completely wrong, a travesty and miscarriage of justice as grievous as the J6 pardons. No President should be permitted to pardon anyone not reviewed by an independent, bipartisan board. Like a parole board. It is wicked what both presidents have done, even though Biden’s action was to protect the innocent. It is just wrong. |
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Cryptocurrency Memes The beauty of his corrupt graft is that any businessman or foreign government is now free to purchase his influence. And boy is the crime lord in the black market for sale. bylinetimes.com www.nakedcapitalism.com |
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Shiva 20:06 A mistake typical of Americans, to conflate 'being American' with 'being human'. Some non-Americans are human, mate! |
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Yes, but do they really count? What borders on stupidity? Canada and Mexico. Today Groper asserts his administration succeeded in renaming Denali McKinley, and the Gulf of Mexico is now rebranded the Gulf of American Ignorance. I wish I was Australian, Canadian, or any of the many superior nationalities. Instead I’m now just deeply ashamed. And as I type the drunken sexual predator whose chief qualification is is nice hair is now Secretary of Defense. McConnell voted against him, but really McConnell’s balls remain in a shriveled leather medicine pouch around Groper’s neck he wears as an amulet. |
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Shiva 19:18 Latest research shows that being American can be cured. It happened to the Republican Party en masse, when they dropped their demand for integrity and respect for honesty to follow Trump. |
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Patz 19:40 There are recognised legal precedents answering that question. In summary, those actions that were accepted as lawful at the time are deemed to be valid for current purposes, even if not in accordance with current interpretations. But SCOTUS has already shown that it has no respect for this principle, so it's anyone's guess. We are entering a phase in which law has become rubbery. |
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dmaestro 25-Jan-25, 10:47 |
The Constitution has little teeth. It was tradition that led to moderation. Tradition is easily ended. The ruling I want changed is on secession: supreme.justia.com. I fail to see why we should accept a union where Trump can rule with impunity and he didn’t even get a majority of the popular vote let alone a landslide. I think more liberal folks haven’t paid attention to trends. By tying themselves to a now polarized gamed and undemocratic system nationally shifting against them they will find themselves under hostile rule. And you can bet the right will push revenge for the federal role since FDR. |
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dmaestro 25-Jan-25, 11:17 |
I now say let fate roll. America is a failing empire that needs to show its trim nature behind the myth. Only a badly damaged USA will reluctantly see through Trump. No nation should depend on the USA for its freedom. Biden was a long running disaster and it would have been better long run if a weakened Trump had won in 2020. Dems don’t seem to understand every time they try and fix GOP errors like in 2008 and 2020 they just get the blame in the end. That is why I have and do favor secession into a confederation from union for blue areas. Why go down with the ship? But it seems too many can’t see the writing on the wall. |
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Leave it to the progs to expand the amendment to include anyone who sneaks into the country and pops out a kid as an anchor baby. That was never the point or reason for the amendment. |
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Thumper It has nothing to do with progs. The constitution won't help tho. Lie the foreign Emoluments clause meant absolutely jack shit. They do what they want when they want |
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DM 10:47 The ruling you linked to is no more than political grandstanding. Look at the daters, fer crying' out loud! It is interesting that even Abe Lincoln was prepared to negotiate with the States, so he must have recognised that they had at least sufficient inherent sovereignty to do that much. It is even more interesting that the 13 colonies had no 'legal' right to break from England. They simply declared it. So let's face reality; 'legal' rights extend as far as raw power will support them, no more and no less. A smart government will not force the issue unless it is confident it can get away with it simply by the other side realising that it's not worth the cost and the risk of opposing it. |
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Thumper 11:29 Absolutely correct, Thumper! I said as much in my original post. Thank you for your support. The problem, as I have said many times, is that the Constitution of the United States is very sloppily written. It could have said 'to a mother who is a citizen or otherwise lawfully a resident in the United States', but it didn't. Bad drafting, like so many other provisions! Right now, the black letter of the law, grants birthplace citizenship. Confirmation by SCOTUS more than a century ago makes it as 'originalist' as any sane person could demand. It you don't like that, then get 38 states to agree to an amendment. Just like the purpose of the Second Amendment was to allow individual States to form militias independent of the Federal Army. Then you might understand why 'progs' are so annoyed that it has been expanded by gun manufacturers to give every psychopath the right to slaughter kids in their dozens. So everyone has regrets about the how the Constitution is worded. Perhaps the most pressing problem is not THIS issue or THAT issue, but amending the process by which Amendments are made. Let the People decide, rather than State Legislatures! How about this:- A simple majority in each House of Congress is sufficient to call for a Referendum of all registered voters within two months. If that referendum is carried in a simple majority of States as well as a simple majority of all voters nationwide, the Amendment becomes valid at the start of the next Presidential term. |
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Bob When you make comments and proclamations like that I find it increasingly difficult to take you seriously. IMO your credibility and integrity which I once held in high esteem takes a beating with each such post. To put a finer point to it, you're sounding more and more like Jeff or LS on a rant. |
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Thumper 18:04 Perhaps you can explain why the Second Amendment explicitly mentions the words 'state' and 'militia' if the Amendment originally had nothing to do with the right of States to form militias. Or do you only see the words you want to see? Meanwhile, back to the main point. Does the 14th Amendment mean what it says, or does it not? For more than a century (in fact, since it was first adopted) it has never been seriously argued otherwise. Until Trump, who has said that he wants to 'set aside' any parts of the Constitution that would get in his way. Are you for Rule of Law, Thumper? Or for Rule of Trump?" |
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Australia eliminates tens of thousands of foreigners in one day! That might be a good way of getting rid of all those 'undocumented immigrants' in the States; just document them! Any that haver acceptable police records, grant them citizenship'. Any that have been convicted of a serious crime (what's the normal criterion for losing the right to vote? That might be a good yardstick), deport them! Also, make sure that anyone who has been employing 'illegals' is also hit with the full force of the law. Just see how many 'good, law-abiding, respectable citizens' have been complicit in law-breaking. |
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dmaestro 26-Jan-25, 09:46 |
He is an actually case in point for why we are too different and we should be able to part ways. Imagine living in a country of right wing tyranny where those like him control the government, and every aspect of your lives. That is the danger under MAGA. 1776 was illegal at the time. It evolved from the fact the colonists grew too different. Likewise MAGA is clearly too oppressive and different and unrepresentative for a large portion of the population. Long ago when Thumper was complaining about prog rule I said I was fine with mutual autonomy as a solution just like the Declaration of Independence says given our huge differences equivalent to different nations elsewhere. That is still how I see it. The right wing goal is Project 2025 on steroids, and a country under the harsh rule of those like thumper is not a free nation to those who disagree. It’s not possible to modernize our Constitution to reflect that reality nor is mass free will conversion possible. It’s time to go our separate ways and let history decide between us but we will probably join the ranks of failed democracy oriented empires due to unwillingness to value freedom when differences are too great. |
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A quick example: People here let their dogs ride in the bed of their trucks as they go about their day. This incensed and angered the self righteous progs so they try to pass laws making that illegal. "That can't be allowed!" they loudly proclaim. "We will protect you from you." They do this sort of thing constantly. They honestly and truly believe they're superior, wise and know what's best so try to force others to comply with their sensibilities. We aren't impressed. |
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Cons don’t rule, they just pretend to. They claim to know what is best for everyone, such as outlawing abortion, gender surgery, affirmative action, and so on. They try to dominate and control by going after immigrants, birthright citizenship, transgender people, the LGBTQ community, feminists, Asians, Muslims, the elderly, the disabled, blacks, and chicanos. When that fails and they get rejected they claim to be victims. Listen to Groper whine about how he is the most abused president of all time, and how oppressed young white males are because they sometimes fail to get their way. Incels. Listen to antivaxxers whine and cry about tiny little needle pricks—you would think saving the lives of their friends, family, and neighbors was akin to Nazi gas chambers—an analogy they have actually made. “You’re being asked to help protect coworkers and accident victims, you’re not being loaded into cattle cars.” My God. |
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No One is Forcing Tender Snowflakes |
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Project 2025 Explained in PSA |
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Project 2025 |
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LS |
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Thumper (various) While conservatives proclaim that they know what's best for women with unwanted pregnancies, people with gender dysphoria, etc. They also know better than unanimous jury verdicts, medical experts, financial experts and professional crime sociologists. Even some members of our club tend to speak outside their own areas of expertise; some do it tentatively, giving reasons and considering contrary opinions; but other say it as though handed down to Moses, with no explanation. <People here let their dogs ride in the bed of their trucks as they go about their day. This incensed and angered the self righteous progs so they try to pass laws making that illegal.> How self-righteous, to want to prevent unnecessary injury to animals! And if that is the most obvious example you can come up with, then you don't have much of a case. <They honestly and truly believe they're superior, wise and know what's best> They honestly and truly listen to people who know what they're talking about and have spent years studying these things SCIENTIFICALLY, and not by arguing with their work buddies over a beer. They have the humility to heed people who DO know better, and the wisdom to analyse counter-claims rather than just going with a 'gut feeling'. <(they) try to force others to comply with their sensibilities.> You mean, like allowing people to determine their sexual orientation themselves instead of complying with your preferences? Like pressing for wages high enough for a worker to support a family and educate his kids to their full potential? Like providing basic medical care without sending the patient bankrupt? Yeah, that's definitely unwanted interference in someone else's life! Meanwhile, who is forcing teenagers to carry unwanted pregnancies? Thumper, I'm breathless at how you don't see what's going on around you. Do you prefer to make up your own 'facts', or do you just accept what your sources tell you to believe? <I actually am a first responder and firefighter... what are you? Have you ever done anything of the sort?> I know this was addressed to Shiva, so he can bat that away himself in regard to his own history; but in so far as that challenge extends to me... I respect your work as a first responder and firefighter. I have said so both privately and in public posts. I commend you. I have said before, that communities live off the backs of such people. Well done, and keep doing it! What have I done? Although not a first responder, things happen over a lifetime as long as mine. I have saved one person from drowning and a family from a car that crashed and turned onto one side on a freeway and was leaking petrol. Thankfully, it didn't catch fire but I didn't know that as I was standing on a jammed door lifting the kids out of the back seat through a window. A year ago I volunteered for State Emergency Services, but was knocked back on medical grounds. Since then I've been working for a charity three mornings each week. I was unpaid Grounds Convenor at the local Netball Association for six years. That involved getting to the courts before 7 a.m. each winter Saturday, sweeping some 6,000 square metres of hardcourt to ensure it was safe to play on (no other bugger volunteered to do that for me!), managing the day's play and closing up around 6 at night. I was also on several committees in that time, introducing several measures that the Blue-Rinse Set didn't like (such as neutral umpires, a Mixed Competition so the older girls could persuade their boyfriends or partners to play) and measures to control traffic better. I've worked as an unpaid mentor for lay courses at a theological college; a lay preacher in four different churches; and a Warden (responsible for the church as a 'business') in two churches. I've been active in politics, up to State President for a Division that covered 30% of Australia's voters, as well as several times a candidate. I was also involved in a half-dozen committees during that time, where most of the real work is done. You might not think that much, but we held the balance of power in the Australian Senate for fifteen years, during which time we blocked many ideologically-driven schemes and negotiated improvements with both sides. All those jobs were unpaid; in fact, a good deal of my own money went into them. In between these distractions, I raised my two daughters who are university-educated and highly respected in their fields. So in summary, I think I've done enough for my country to earn my $A21,600 p.a. old-age pension. Let's not insult each other's public engagement again, eh? |
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dmaestro 26-Jan-25, 19:23 |
Thumper It would be nice if we could expect common sense and a more libertarian approach to work under one government, but in fact our culture and values are too different and so I feel we do have to work to protect some and those dependent from themselves. Like children, no dog should suffer because irresponsible owners don’t know when to secure dogs. www.tatelawoffices.com. One of the features of the conservative mindset as we saw clearly from the reaction to the pandemic is the way you alp don’t value safety the same way and find higher risks more acceptable even when it adversely affects others. Of course there’s some overreach from the left and I don’t like it either. But it’s good you brought this example up. It shows clearly our valued are not compatible, how you think and desire to tell us what to do, and why I realized seeking friendship or any contact with you was not worth it as I was warned. I can’t hope to change your values or “facts”, or your intent to impose them on the rest of us, but can and will work for a national divorce and the failure of your agenda for the world based on mutual incompatibility and the threat you pose. Your community service claims don’t outweigh that. Of course Project 2025 and right wing authoritarianism is in process—anyone who noted the right wing plans going back to the 1950s knows your sides agenda. I will give your side credit for cleverly breaking the code on how impose your divide and conquer agenda on naive Democrats who don’t understand the Constitution won’t suffice; but you don’t fool those like me who know your plans and agenda. I should not have to warn you history shows the end result won’t be pretty. Far batter we agree to divorce and go our own ways. |
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