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obsteve 07-Feb-25, 10:36	On the 5th anniversary of Brexshït Here's a fisherman from North Shields (10 mins from my house) talking about all the benefits of removing ourself from our nearest and largest customs union. x.com
apatzer 07-Feb-25, 11:13	The British government didn't promise brexit would work out! They were against it. The right wing Putin driven propaganda said it would be better. Putin and his oligarchy can't build Russia up to be strong and prosperous because they're too busy grabbing everything for themselves therefore they have to make the other nations around them weaker and that is the plan they have made the United States weaker they have made England weaker and it's not going to end there. And one more sufficiently weak enough Putin will grab more land Ukraine's not enough for him you can't woo and appease a man like him.
obsteve 08-Feb-25, 15:58	Patz While you are correct, and PM Cameron was against it, there were many prominent members of his cabinet and back benches who were ardent and vocal supporters, and they did indeed make many promises about leaving the EU. Some of which we knew were lies at the time, and others that have just turned out to be wrong over time. Maybe in another 5 years we'll see some improvement, just not yet
ragnarhairybreek 09-Feb-25, 11:16	Patz Hi Patz Apologies if this is something already covered earlier in the thread, but I doubt Russian influence was that important in the Brexit vote. I come from the UK and there has always been a strong streak of scepticism about the EU on both right and left (though for somewhat different reasons). English identity was for a great many tied up in a sense of British exceptionalism (much less so the Scots, who have always had a warmer relationship with mainland Europe). The British press - across its whole spectrum - mostly gave not even cursory coverage of the EU over the decades of British membership and the Murdoch-owned press was deeply Eurosceptic and - no surprise from Murdoch - quite happy to spread lies and misinformation about it. I suggest that if you are looking for a culprit, it had much much more to do with Rupert Murdoch than Russian interference.
apatzer 09-Feb-25, 16:16	Hi, ragnarhairybreek Thank you. I was too quick to make suppositions and posts about it. I appreciate yours and others responses. You guys would definitely know better than I.
ragnarhairybreek 10-Feb-25, 10:50	Patz No worries. It can hard to really understand what's going on in another country. Even as an ex-pat there's a lot I don't know nowadays about the UK.
lord_shiva 10-Feb-25, 12:10	Russian Interference en.wikipedia.org. Russia certainly played a role, but as the article stipulates the overall impact remains debatable. Putin and Trump were both delighted by the result, though Putin far more so. I suspect Russian influence on the 2016 election played a much bigger role. It wasn’t simply the purchase of social media ads and flood of propaganda, but their data analysis with Cambridge Analytica. I was art of the class action on that, but Zuckerberg wiggled out of having to actually pay, a judgment Donald will likely rescind given the SCOTUS Enabling Act. Of course, I’m across the English ocean, so far removed. But I listened to a lot of broadcasts on the topic by James O’Brien. I think Obsteve may have provided the original links to that, but I dug up more because it was fascinating. No, for the most part they just enthusiastically did it to themselves. Swallowed their own lies. And a lot of young people failing to realize the power of their vote went for it on a lark. The ballot really needs to be taken seriously. We will still make mistakes, especially when flood with toxic information, but to just cast for something you think won’t pass as a joke can really backfire.
apatzer 10-Feb-25, 12:15	For the rich and powerful in America lady justice isn't just blind she's also deaf and dumb.
lord_shiva 10-Feb-25, 12:24	Ragnar 11:16w << The British press - across its whole spectrum - mostly gave not even cursory coverage of the EU over the decades of British membership and the Murdoch-owned press was deeply Eurosceptic and - no surprise from Murdoch - quite happy to spread lies and misinformation about it. I suggest that if you are looking for a culprit, it had much much more to do with Rupert Murdoch than Russian interference.>> Yes. The Australian decided it should be destroyed, and plenty of other prominent people were complicit, but he amplified their voices with his megaphone, drowning out the voices of reason. I thought Scotland would have broken away by now to rejoin the EU. Maybe they can’t do another referendum for awhile yet. O’Brien sure made a lot of good points. Why would the EU honor agreements the UK broke? Why would the EU negotiate more favorable trade deals to reward a faithless partner? I guess that channel helps insulate Great Britain from immigrants much better than our little Rio Grande, now dry part of the year from over harvest. Though Abbott was still able to drown little brown children in it, MAGA. And that immigrant issue played as well in the UK as it did hear getting Donald back into office, considering how Mexican drug gangs control entire cities here, rape and murder police officers like they were Catholic altar boys, and still manage to get free college tuition, free food, free housing, free cars, free gas, free medical care and golden Cadillac health insurance, free Tequila, free firearms and ammunition… Just ask Softaire. To be fair Softaire didn’t claim we gave illegal immigrants free ammunition.
bobspringett 10-Feb-25, 13:53	Shiva 12:24 <considering how Mexican drug gangs control entire cities here, rape and murder police officers like they were Catholic altar boys, and still manage to get free college tuition, free food, free housing, free cars, free gas, free medical care and golden Cadillac health insurance, free Tequila, free firearms...> This is the bit that really annoys me! Trump is always telling his minions that the poor United States is the victim of everything that the evil world outside is doing. Poor USA has to fight back against those bullies! Yet I know of no country that has invaded the USA in the last two centuries, except for a couple of uninhabited islets in the Aleutians. How many countries are blockading the US, like the US is blockading Iran? So how does such a transparent lie gain any traction? Easy! Because it is the living reality of individual Trump supporters themselves. Low-skilled workers have little security in employment, little government protection against dangerous or unjust employment practices and pitifully low wages. All in the name of 'Freedom!' of course; the freedom of those with the power to use their freedom to limit the options available to others. So these Trumpies transfer their rage against the system that oppresses them into a rage against 'foreigners'. Some of those on the top of the socio-economic ladder see this as their chance to exercise yet another level of control over the unwashed masses, so they pile on too. Unfortunately the 'middle class' of America has been happy to watch this happen over the last half-century. Now the professionals and sub-professionals are starting to realise that old adage; that I am indeed my brother's keeper, my neighbour's defender. An egalitarian society is the bedrock of a peaceful community and a stable nation. I remember many years ago a right-wing Christian clique here in Australia pushed out the motto 'Righteousness exalteth a nation', calling for civil laws that upheld Biblical principles. By that they meant criminalisation or at least abolition of divorce, prostitution, pornography and a range of other sex-related 'offences'. Had they looked more closely at Proverbs 14:34 they might have noticed that the word translated 'righteousness' means 'justice'. And in the Bible, 'justice' itself isn't 'punishment' (which is 'retribution') or 'enforcement'; it is better translated to mean 'proper mutual respect'. It is much more positive that our English word. Will we hear any fundamentalist Religious Right preachers open up on this verse any time soon? Will the renowned American middle class wake up from their self-absorption in time to see that they have been caught in a pincer movement? 'Probably not' in both cases.
lord_shiva 23-Mar-25, 07:27	Conor McGreggor I probably should open an EU thread instead of posting this here. But I read 8% of the Irish would vote for this knob. That is WAY better than the 49% of Americans voting for the Groper knob. “A poll that month found that eight percent of people polled would vote for McGregor for office, while 89 percent said they would not.” Why are the Irish so much better than Americans?
dmaestro 23-Mar-25, 12:46	Brexit was a clever right wing plot based on lies but misleading polls led more anti Brexit folks to just not vote. Trump did the same here. Brexit should have served as a wake up call for those underestimating Trump and his easily duped followers. The horrific price to be paid with not understanding the opponents.
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