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lord_shiva 03-Jul-24, 15:19	Project 2025 Quote: “We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be,” Kevin Roberts said. Heritage’s Project 2025 calls for a huge increase in presidential power as well as a transformation of the federal government, replacing existing staffers with an army of those loyal to Trump. Roberts has previously said he sees his organization’s role as “institutionalizing Trumpism.” In his interview Tuesday, Roberts said that despite “all this nonsense from the left, we are going to win.” “We’re in the process of taking this country back,” he said. “No one in the audience should be despairing.” [Taking it back to monarchy, apparently.] Talk of bloodshed has been a disturbing seam running through conservative rhetoric during this election cycle. Trump sparked controversy in March predicting a “bloodbath” for the country if he didn’t win in November... The Republican National Committee launched a “Biden Bloodbath” website the following month... End quote.
zorroloco 03-Jul-24, 16:25	Shiva Yeah. Scary Shit. www.youtube.com
apatzer 03-Jul-24, 17:12	it is a slow coup for absolute power. plain and simple
dmaestro 03-Jul-24, 22:31	This “revolution” shows it is quite possibly about time for a divorce. The system as we know is undemocratic. There is no effective recourse. The right has planned for this for decades. They control the judicial branch and have undue influence in Congress. The Electoral College gives them and edge they can’t get from the popular vote. Reliance on traditional constraints in an undemocratic, unequal yoke is naive. These people mean to win the culture war and impose their agenda. It’s not surprising to those paying attention.
bobspringett 03-Jul-24, 23:24	Social Engineering Does anyone remember how conservatives considered 'social engineering' as a threatened apocalypse? It was the worst thing anyone could do. Now the conservatives themselves are making no effort to conceal that their own plans are social engineering just as profound as any attempted by liberal democracy. Similarly with 'judicial activism'. "Judges should apply the law, not create it!" But now that they realise how simplistic that slogan is, they are making no attempt to encourage activism in their preferred direction. Which is all fair enough. That's how Democracy is supposed to work. Each community works out how it wants to be run. But that wording is deliberate. EACH community. What happens when several different communities come together? This is how larger bodies politic are formed, either through conquest and absorption in the time-honoured manner of most of history, or by consent as has happened in the last few centuries. This is why a federal structure for larger bodies is wise. It allows each question to be resolved at its appropriate level. And this is where I'll probably cop some flak, but at heart it is not improper for the SCOTUS to say that each state should make its own rules on social questions such as abortion. It's right for Afghanistan to make its own rules about how women are treated. SO LONG AS IT IS THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING AFFECTED ARE THE ONES MAKING THE DECISIONS!! But that isn't what happens, is it? Those reactionaries who are calling for 'self-determination' would do well to actually follow what the means in real life instead of assuming that tey alone speak on behalf of everyone else.
dmaestro 04-Jul-24, 09:15	Wa are fundamentally incompatible. dnyuz.com. It’s not going to be possible to have enough in common for anything but limited confederation. We cannot live under their rule. And they are not going to change or compromise. This is not about slavery or worth a war it is about recognition these folks need tn live under their own rule and see for themselves tne end results. A too large without fundamental compatibility can not work as history shows. What is frustrating is each side seems to expect the other to wake up if they just let them take over. That doesn’t work on any level in free human relationships.
dmaestro 04-Jul-24, 09:53	The problems with modern democracies stability are not limited to the polarized USA. Look at NZ: www.lemonde.fr. Look at France. www.france24.com And in the UK where Conservative rule has destroyed the county the conservatives are now being crushed. www.wsj.com The root of this problem is obvious. Ideologies are now internationally aligned and more polarized eg Murdoch while adapting to local issues. To get a majority in a polarized society requires giving undue power to extremes who use that power to polarize further. As I have pointed out this divided and weakens centrists who shift back and forth leading to even greater instability and extremism and general frustration. Historically democracies trying to bridge gaps have failed over time. For the USA, stuck with an archaic system never designed for a world power and gamed by partisans, I think the polarized winner take all politics will, as George Washington feared, end the dream. I predict the dream we grew up with is over.
thumper 04-Jul-24, 10:57	DM The island nation of NZ has a mostly homogeneous population of 5 million and France, 68 million but please continue to lecture.
zorroloco 04-Jul-24, 11:09	Thumper Ahhh… so you’re saying we’re doing just fine. I see. An interesting perspective.
thumper 04-Jul-24, 11:27	Z No, just that we're obviously and vastly different than those nations. I await your ongoing personal attacks.
lord_shiva 04-Jul-24, 11:52	France Doesn’t Count? Their population is only a fifth of the U.S. population, so it is impossible for us to learn anything by way of their example?
dmaestro 04-Jul-24, 12:38	Thumper Thanks for the reply. Yes we are different and only the USA is a superpower but western democracies have common issues. Do you understand the problems of scaling from local government to nations with diverse interests? And having been to New Zealand it’s not homogenous and has a disaffected indigenous population.
dmaestro 04-Jul-24, 13:07	carnegieendowment.org Politics in many democracies is just another form of oppositional cultural tribalism. The tribalism in the USA is as great as if we were two countries but with open borders. We see that developing in other democracies as well. In many western democracies like the USA we see a growing wealth gap as well as tribal gap. MAGA claims the USA is exceptional. I call that delusional.
zorroloco 04-Jul-24, 13:47	Thumper You think we don’t realize that France, New Zealand and other countries are different than the US? Thanks for the deep insight 🙄 And I note you’re the only one in this thread tossing out personal attacks. Carry on
bobspringett 04-Jul-24, 15:02	DM 9:53 <To get a majority in a polarized society requires giving undue power to extremes who use that power to polarize further.> That's only true in a 'winner-take-all' political structure, like in America or Britain. Most Western nations have Proportional Representation in one form or another, where an extreme party can only been in government so long as it gets the Centre to agree with it. You think from the headlines that the Right in France is going to win? Probably, but it won't win absolute power as happens in the US. It will win the right to see if it can get the Centre to support it, rather than supporting the Left; and that support will come only if the Right also accepts a large chunk of Centrist views. Here in the Land of the Pompous Possum we have single-member constituencies as in USA and Britain, but that is tempered by P.R. in our Senate. Not as good as P.R. in the Lower House, but the next best thing to ensure extremist government doesn't happen. It's unfortunate that America has dug itself into such a deep hole that one extreme or the other is assumed to be an inevitable fact of life.
bobspringett 04-Jul-24, 15:20	Thumper 10:57 I've been to New Zealand a couple of times, quite apart from there being enough New Zealanders living in Sydney to form one of New Zealand's biggest cities if they were all crowded into one place. I assure you that New Zealand is NOT homogenous. Maori culture is everywhere, and even the Pakeha (whites) accept it as part of their own heritage. Just watch the prelude to an All Black international to see a Maori version of a parade-ground military drill, with the white guys just as sincere as any Maori. www.bing.com By-the-way, the quivering hands doesn't mean they are nervous. That symbolises 'spirit' or 'life-force', so they are emphasising their own vitality and strength with that gesture.
dmaestro 05-Jul-24, 01:24	Bob 15:02 We alll know thumper knows so much that.isn’t so and thinks he is being lectured. He will tell us endlessly how the system here is best because it favors him. He’s too young to know the history of when it worked the other way and the solid south worked against the GOP. You are more precise yes the problem here is not only an undemocratic system but a winner take all tribal system. The framers didn’t really account for 2 party partisan tribalism and winner take all politics. So yes the USA dug itself in a whole by rejecting more modern proportional represent ion, ranked Choice , and the ability to find confidence, leading us without recourse.
redfoxrising 05-Jul-24, 13:28	2025 static.project2025.org Full Pdf of project 2025
lord_shiva 06-Jul-24, 09:13	Deleted by lord_shiva on 06-Jul-24, 09:18.
lord_shiva 06-Jul-24, 09:18	Kill Them Quote HCR: If indeed Trump knows nothing about project 2025 and has no idea who is behind it, his cognitive ability is rotten. As former chair of the Republican national committee, Michael Steele wrote since [Project 2025] is designed to institutionalize Trumpism and you know nothing about it, then why do you echo some of its policy priorities during your rallies? Coincidence? And how exactly don’t you know that project 2025 Director Paul Dans served as your chief of staff at the Office of Personnel Management and Associate Director Spencer Chretein served as your special assistant and associate director of presidential personnel? And folks say we should be worried about Biden.” The extremism of the MAGA Republicans was on display in another way today as well after The New Republic published a June 30 video of North Carolina lieutenant governor Mark Robinson, currently the Republican nominee for governor of North Carolina, saying to a church audience about their opponents whom he identified in a scattershot speech as anything from communist to “wicked people” to those standing against “conservatives”—“kill them! Some liberal somewhere is gonna say that sounds awful. Too bad! Some folks need killing! It’s time for somebody to say it.” End quote. (Corrected transcription punctuation typos)
zorroloco 11-Jul-24, 05:25	Trump claims not to know who is behind Project 2025. A CNN review found at least 140 people who worked for him are involved
apatzer 11-Jul-24, 07:32	Trump knows nothing about project 2025, like he knows nothing about Epsteins Island. x.com

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