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Traitor Groper Calls for Suspension of Constitution
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 Get back to the point, guys!THAT is the insult to the codebreakers. Warren is irrelevant except in so far as Trump's insults drag her into it, like dragging a dead dog up the aisle at a wedding. So stop talking about Warren, and get back to how Trump treaded these code breakers like he treats everyone and everything; as a means to his own ends. |
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Code Breakers I must hand it to Thumper, kudos for these comments: “I think that snippet is embarrassing not funny. Those men, our elders, should have been honored with all respect and held the spotlight in high esteem. Instead, Trump's comments made them second to a political backhanded insult against one of his opponents.“ I rarely felt deeper shame for my nation than after hearing that. It was grossly disrespectful, hijacking a moment honoring brave war heroes to lob racist political barbs at a rival. Absolutely disgraceful. Should Thumper and I ever meet the first round is on me, since it is unlikely I will ever meet a Wind Talker. |
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Walking Out What an unmitigated national embarrassment. |
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Shiva 14:54 They were code makers. They did not break any codes. We believed Japan lacked access to native Navajo speakers, and these men developed codes for enemy information, such as the Navajo word “turtle” for tank, etc. “Wind Talkers.” They were to be executed as opposed to risk being captured alive. Shot by a fellow officer. I do not know if that ever happened, but it added to the role they played. Groper is not nearly pejorative enough to equal his own crass, abysmal performance. Out of respect for the club I do not use the names he fully and richly deserves. And remember, voters chose him to best represent us. If they felt he was unworthy of emulation, they chose poorly. |
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dmaestro 05-Dec-22, 15:33 |
Thumper Back when she did it it was common to focus on any diverse background by both students and colleges. She rightly believed she had some Native Ancestry from family lore. The issue which I know from attending Native American events is tribes look at membership differently, the blood system was imposed by whites and in retrospect what she thought was honoring them wasn’t seen that way. That part is fair criticism. She apologized. But the whole issue was dredged up by conservatives long after anyway. So when Trump lies, uses an offensive N-word type term, and claims he had more Native blood than her which is obviously a lie and far more offensive we see nothing from the right—as usual. I don’t expect more from you anymore for the record. You are so predicable. That’s how you moderate in your club. And you are far too different… |
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L_S And I think you’re making far too big a deal out of Trump’s offhand remark. The truth is, more people in America (and elsewhere) learned who the code talkers were because Trump made that remark and the media went ballistic over it and gave it so much airtime. If Trump hadn’t made that Pocahontas remark, I’m not even sure the media would have reported on the code talkers ceremony. And if they did, I think it would have gotten very little coverage. But it is a very interesting part of World War II, and I’d like someday soon to read a book on it (if one exists.) |
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dmaestro 05-Dec-22, 16:02 |
Andrew The key point is that Trump did it recently and was in a position to know better whereas Warren’s acts are far more dated and less offensives As for Trump—If you call the kettle black make sure you are not a black pot. The criticism of many conservatives having double standards and out right hypocrisy isn’t far fetched. |
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Cultural Appropriation <<And I think you’re making far too big a deal out of Trump’s offhand remark. >> It was racist and disgusting, and had no place in the ceremony that should have been entirely about these great men. Incidentally, there is a movie on the Wind Talkers, called "Windtalkers." It was released in 2002. Nicholas Cage, Mark Ruffalo, and Christian Slater star. I recommend it. |
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dmaestro 05-Dec-22, 23:04 |
All Warren did was assume family lore was correct and she had Indian blood. Under the white man’s one drop rule and at that time after the DNA test showed it was around 6 generations past she still could claim to be part Native but no tribal affiliation. There is no evidence Warren just made it up. Trump OTOH openly lied ahout being more Native those Warren despite his ancestors recent arrival and mocked Natives in effect but those like Thumper have such contempt for non-conservatives they show their usual double standard. Thumper is a classic illustration of right wing contempt and how they hypocritically project their own sins on opponents while claiming to be pure. and he does it so do often he can’t even hide it anymore— so why bother it’s deliberate. I say don’t waste time—just call them out. |
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dmaestro 05-Dec-22, 23:25 |
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DNA test shows Native ancestry ranges from 0.09 to 1.5 percent; European Americans average 0.18 percent. Sen. Elizabeth Warren’s released DNA results show that the her Native American 'ancestry' is roughly the same as that of the average white American, and may be less. Yes, she has a tiny bit of 'Native DNA' but so does almost everyone in the country. |
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No It is also false that the average non Native American has ANY Native American DNA. The only group of whites with much DNA lived near the creoles, who ran brothels in the swamps. That is largely restricted to a small set of Indians in the Deep South. Most reservations were sufficiently remote that very little interbreeding occurred. I read an article about this, I forget the periodical. |
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Cornel Study 4 to 5% only. |
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Kudos to Thumper I failed to note Thumper did the right thing here. Took a stand for decency, which I applaud. |
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Oh It was on the second page. Worth repeating, though. |
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Shiva 05:58 Why are you surprised? I have a great deal of respect for Thumper. Sure, I disagree with him more often than not, and his manner is abrasive at times; but he abides by his own code of honour. |
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Surprise! |
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jonheck 10-Aug-25, 12:11 |
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Purple Heart |
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Shiva 15:18 Some people might disagree with me here, but I wouldn't accept it. To do so would insult its meaning. I remember back in 2000, one of my mixed netball team had a relative who won a medal at the Sydney Olympics. She brough it to a game for us the see and try on. Two of us refused to feel the weight of it around our necks even as we admired it. We hadn't earned that privilege. |
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Bob |
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Thumper 16:23 I don't come from a military family, and Australia has a much smaller pool of vets in its general population. (Our standing force is just over 4% the size of America's establishment, and most stay in the Forces rather than joining to get a trade/education and then leaving, so there is less 'churn'.) I was reaching for the only analogy in my experience. |
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Here's what was actually said and done: “Last year, after an assassin tried to take my life in Butler, Pennsylvania, Thomas generously mailed me one of his Purple Hearts. Many of the other veterans showed me the same unbelievable gesture of kindness, including three-time Purple Heart recipient John Ford and Gerald Enter Jr., who also came along with us and did us a great, great favor,” Trump said. “Gerald, John and Thomas, I want to thank you very much. What a great honor to get those Purple Hearts,” he added. “I guess in a certain way, it wasn’t that easy for me, either, when you think of it. But you went through a lot more than I did, and I appreciate it all very much.” Now let's chop that statement up in order to say what you want in the rush to belittle, attack and mock Trump. |
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Thumper 17:00 It's always a good thing to 'chop up' a statement so it can be understood for what it says rather than the overall impression it makes. So let's do that! <the Purple Heart recipients (three of them) wanted to show respect. Surely that needs to be mocked and ridiculed.> And I can respect them wanting to show respect. I said nothing against them at all. Nor did I 'mock and ridicule' even Trump himself. Why do you need to imply that I did? I just said "Some people might disagree with me here, but I wouldn't accept it." <"What a great honor to get those Purple Hearts,” he (Trump) added. “I guess in a certain way, it wasn’t that easy for me, either, when you think of it. But you went through a lot more than I did, and I appreciate it all very much.”> Trump agrees that they "went through a lot more than I did", which was gracious of him. More than that, he said "What a great honor to get those Purple Hearts", which I interpret as an acknowledgement that he accepted them as his way of honouring their gesture to him. I did not and I do not mock that. I would have replied along the lines of "I appreciate and feel greatly honoured by your words and offer. But I am unworthy. Your honour is your own, and may none take it from you." That would be my response, not my demand for how others should respond. So where have I rushed to "belittle, attack and mock Trump"? Please, Thumper; stop seeing an implicit insult in every opinion that you don't share. Start seeing them when they are as explicit as Trump's utterances. |
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Bob How do you know? Have you ever been shot, stabbed, burned or blown up by someone trying to kill you? I somehow don't think so but you presume to know what he should have 'properly' said or done. |
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Thumper 1. <How do you know?> I will take it that this unfinished sentence means "How do I know what I would have said if offered an honour I had not earned?" I know because I have been in that circumstance and responded as I said. From that I have extrapolated my response in similar circumstances. 2. (And this is the biggy!) <Where did I "presume to know what he should have 'properly' said or done"?> I presumed nothing. I reported NOT what anyone else SHOULD have said, but what I would have said. 3. <Have you ever been shot, stabbed, burned or blown up by someone trying to kill you?> I wasn't talking about such exciting times. I was talking about receiving a token of courage or skill that I did not earn. 4. Even though you know so little about my past and whether or not I have put my own safety on the line to help someone else, yet you "somehow don't think so". Don't you think that YOU are being presumptuous at this point? If you think subjecting yourself to danger takes courage, you are right! Have I ever done that? Yes. Not a hail of bullets, but on one occasion I remember thinking "That's a long way down.", on another "I hope this doesn't catch fire!" and another "Gotta get her to land fast!" BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, if you think risking physical danger is the only sort of courage that matters, then you are less of a man than I take you for. Have you ever heard of MORAL courage? It's something that many prominent Republicans seem to have abandoned over the last decade or so. The few who maintained it (McCain was the most notable but is no longer with us; also Romney, Cheney and others) have been purged for standing by their principles. 5. You STILL haven't shown where I "belittled, attacked or mocked" Trump, or anyone else for that matter. Your failure to do so in the face of repeated invitations suggests that you can't. This suspicion is further strengthened by the fact that I didn't. In fact, quite the opposite! I even said... "Trump agrees that they "went through a lot more than I did", which was gracious of him. More than that, he said "What a great honor to get those Purple Hearts", which I interpret as an acknowledgement that he accepted them as his way of honouring their gesture to him." Does that sound like I'm "belittling, attacking or mocking" him? If you continue making statements so completely without any foundation, then you will continue to be considered a buffoon. And I'll play along with you by continuing to point out your buffoonery. (No, that's not an insult, but a prediction and an offer.) |
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Purple Heart I knew nothing about the post ear scratch, but instead was referring to the medal Trump collected before winning election his FIRST term. www.politico.com I am compelled to side with Bob here. Accepting a real hero’s battle honor smacks of stolen valor. The bone spurred man who refuses injured soldiers in his presence (no one wants to see that), berates bereaved war widows, mocks the service of real heroes as “losers” and “suckers” has no business accepting medals he is unworthy of awarding, I appreciate the stance you took on his dishonor of the Wind Talkers. |
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jonheck 11-Aug-25, 07:31 |
and take the kids with you! |
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My grandfather fought in the South Pacific during WWII. He was wounded numerous times (bullets, bombs and swords) during the beach landings on both Leyte and Luzon, Philippines but always refused the Purple Heart saying he regularly got hurt worse back home on the farm. They finally made him accept the Bronze Star. That's back when they didn't hand medals out like party favors. I personally have a decent collection of fruit salad on my old uniform that basically amount to participation trophies. They look cool to civies but don't mean shit. If someone who truly got wounded and was moved to give Trump his medal, who are you to say other or mock Trump for humbly acccepting? |
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