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softaire 03-Jan-23, 23:45	Z So rather than discuss the real problems many Americans are facing you would rather deflect the conversation to a "Burmese crisis"? WHY are you so afraid of discussing our real problems?
stalhandske 04-Jan-23, 01:46	<You ignore my posts and do not respond to them in any meaningful way. > Well, at least this was certainly true.
zorroloco 04-Jan-23, 04:40	Soft I’m waiting for you to say what you think the problem is. You started the thread by lying about open borders. I called you on the falsehood. When you ACCURATELY state the problem, I’ll be happy to discuss it. Burma was obviously a response to Aces non sequitur about Portland
stalhandske 04-Jan-23, 05:09	Ace's responses in these clubs and threads is much like what the leaders of his former country, Myanmar (formerly Burma), are presently doing in (again) incarcerating Aung San Suu Kyi.
zorroloco 04-Jan-23, 05:28	Stal Also, most of what Ace has posted is lies.
stalhandske 04-Jan-23, 06:45	<Also, most of what Ace has posted is lies. > Cannot be, as it is the same song posted by Vic, Thump and Softie
zorroloco 04-Jan-23, 06:58	Stal “We have zero evidence of significant voter fraud, but tRump and his acolytes have said there was fraud, so it must be investigated repeatedly and interminably in spite of 60 court cases being tossed for lack of evidence.” Lol. They are simple tools of a blatant conman
dmaestro 04-Jan-23, 15:58	There is no reason to believe most of what Ace says. The problem is conservatives are anti-immigrant. www.fairus.org They don’t respect internationall law immigrationforum.org or our own asylum laws. www.uscis.gov. That’s why they misuse Title 42 as a loophole to keep iimmigrante out. They don’t care that the dangers they face in their origin and on the way make their claim they should just wait on the border inhumane; nor to they care their lies about an “open border” encourages exploitation. They complain about oppression in Venezuela for example but send them back because they just don’t care. As we point out, they would have turned the baby Jesus over to Herod.   But that is why it’s a waste of time to discuss immigration with deliberately ignorant conservatives.
redfoxrising 04-Jan-23, 16:30	I found something Sometimes conservatives and progressives (and, yes, conservative-oriented libertarians) want to let more immigrants into the country legally. But the operative word is “let.” As soon as you see or hear that word “let,” you know that they are not talking about open borders but instead an immigration-control system, one in which government politicians and bureaucrats are deciding who is going to enter the country. There is another important point to consider here: both progressives and conservatives (and conservative-oriented libertarians) favor the police-state measures that are designed to enforce their system of immigration controls. Oh, sure, Biden and his progressive cohorts might not favor the Berlin Immigration Wall that conservatives favor, but, like them, he favors forced deportations, violent raids on American businesses, domestic highway checkpoints, warrantless trespasses onto farms and ranches, and other police-state immigration enforcement measures. Immediately after the Taliban took control of Kabul, it began establishing highway checkpoints around the city where they ask people for their identification papers. I can’t help but wonder whether they are modeling their highway checkpoint system on America’s immigration highway checkpoint system. But one thing is certain: Whether the highway checkpoints are being run by the Taliban or by progressives or conservatives, they reflect a tyrannical system. There is but one solution to America’s ongoing, never-ending, perpetual immigration crisis: open borders, just like we have here within the domestic United States. It is the only way — repeat: only way — to bring an end to the death, suffering, chaos, crisis, and police state that come with America’s Democratic-Republican, progressive-conservative system of immigration controls.
dmaestro 04-Jan-23, 19:08	We know objectively we need more immigrants not less. Once you start there it becomes evident our system is not working. It is absolutely correct anti-immigrant forces have created a loophole to our normal constitutional rights where 2/3 of the population is subject to unreasonable searches and seizures and arrests having nothing to do with immigration. www.aclu.org. We lose a fortune in terms of wasted costs due to delays for legitimate border traffic and commerce. I have no more patience for anh-immigrant nonsense and propaganda.
thumper 04-Jan-23, 19:16	DM Tell me again how many people flow into this country each year... You say we need more!?
dmaestro 04-Jan-23, 19:57	Thumper You are anti-immigrant so it won’t matter and it’s well known so you should just look it up—but for example: amp.cnn.com In general Anti immigrants sadly push lies: No undocumented immigrants don’t cause more crime: ncpolicywatch.com No we don’t have open borders we have active deportation: mronline.org Yes undocumented immigrants pay taxes (unlike Trump): pozogoldstein.com Yes educating and making Dreamers citizens would be a good investment, eg: comptroller.nyc.gov No they are not causing unemployment: www.aclu.org I think anti-immigrants are simply and hopelessly ignorant and bigoted. I support sanctuary cities and keeping ICE out unless requested. I oppose all those gestapo like checkpoints not at the actual border. And I will do whatever I can to block and defy anti-immigrants. It’s too bad we are too far apart on the issue but that’s usual. But what we utterly despise is the incessant lies by anti-immigrants. If you can’t handle the truth there is nothing much to say.
softaire 05-Jan-23, 00:08	DM has stated several things in that last post that shows he has the same goals as the Marxist-Communists of the 20th century. Of course they are inflammatory and completely incorrect... if you are trying to preserve the country. Those ideas will not allow any country to long survive. And his name-calling is really not that of a civilized person.
dmaestro 05-Jan-23, 08:35	Softaire When it comes to immigration you unfortunately have a known record of misinformation, half truths, mass exaggeration and pushing outright lies. You claim you are being “replaced” and express affinity with right wing nativist forces internationally. Why would you not expect patience to be exhausted? I realize you believe what you advocate but that simply means there is nothing to discuss.
softaire 05-Jan-23, 09:11	DM Once again you are misunderstanding and misinterpreting what I have said and what I actually believe. Is this on purpose? I say it is because you are too intelligent to do that by mistake. I have NOT ever said: "I am, or we are, being replaced....". If you think that I have, find the quote. I HAVE said that the progressives are allowing Open Borders so that we have mass infusion of foreigners (not citizens) for a few reasons: 1) to populate states with more people that the census counts in order to create more representation in the House of Representatives. Thinking that most illegal aliens will become Democrats, this will swell the House with more Democrats. 2) Thinking that most illegal aliens will sooner or later become voters (either legally or illegally) Democrats will become the larger voting block and we will end up with a one-party government of Democrat-Progressives. The other idea that I spread misinformation, half truths, mass exaggeration and push outright lies is Bull. I express my beliefs and opinions. You may challenge anything that you think that are those... find one if you can and let's discuss it. Prove that I do that and that you are not simply doing it (saying it) for your own benefit. YOU are spreading misinformation, half truths, mass exaggeration and pushing outright lies. I resent that... so back up your claim.
zorroloco 05-Jan-23, 09:18	Hyperbole See Soft… you immediately start off lying about open borders again. It shows you think in propagandistic slogans and mottos rather than addressing real life. The border is a real issue. Lying about it isn’t a way to move forward - how you frame the question determines what tour solution looks like. Badly framed questions provide useless answers. Why don’t you try framing the problem without the hyperbole?
softaire 05-Jan-23, 09:24	Z I am NOT discussing this issue with you because you are an insincere person who simply calls names, demeans people and ideas, and provokes division. I have seen how you post in other threads and against other people, as well as myself. Even when you have some good, valid arguments you interspace them with name calling and ridicule. That makes you unworthy as a poster imho. Like I said before, we're done.
zorroloco 05-Jan-23, 09:25	Soft I got it the first time. You’re not interested in honest dialogue. I already knew that
thumper 05-Jan-23, 10:07	Softie As you well know, with Z it's all about the one upmanship, bickering and arguing. He seems to not only need it but enjoys it. He always has some insulting comeback or snide remark ready at hand. This seems to be the left's go to tactic. I guess it makes them feel good about themselves.
zorroloco 05-Jan-23, 10:11	Thumper Sis Boom bah!!! All you lack is pom poms
dmaestro 05-Jan-23, 10:21	Softaire By your logic we should have deported the Cubans who cost us Florida and were responsible for the recent Presidents who didn’t win the popular vote. foreignpolicy.com. Without Cubans Dems would have won. And they have made the USA an international pariah on the Cuba embargo issue while the embargo failed. So your double standard is evident. You only want limited immigrants who agree with you. By definition that’s the essence of “replacement”. Your problem isn’t demographic; young people reject the GOP for the same reason I left once I was old enough to see through the fog—it’s a white male traditionalist social conservative oriented party and its economic agenda isn’t true fiscal conservatism, it simply makes the rich richer. It’s nothing but the same old southern strategy where elite southerners conned poor whites using bigotry by saying at least you are better than those inferior blacks. You are victimizing immigrants on the dubious assumption most are far left.
softaire 05-Jan-23, 10:23	Buy a cracker, Brick a bracker, Sis Boom Bah, Zorroloco, Zorroloco, Rah Rah Rah!
zorroloco 05-Jan-23, 10:31	Soft Not bad. The cadence is screwed up though. You must’ve been a Marine
softaire 05-Jan-23, 10:34	DM Once again, you are assuming something about me that simply isn't so. When have I advocated FOR Cuban immigrants in Florida over Central and South Americans crossing our Southern border? I haven't... although I have said I think the Obama administration and now the Biden administration is trying to exclude the Cubans from entering the USA through Florida but allowing immigrants from the South across out Southern Border. And, actually if they are here illegally, I think that they should all be deported... all illegal immigrants should be deported. The Dreamers who have been here a long time should get special, one on one consideration but recent illegal immigrants should all be deported. What do you think?
zorroloco 05-Jan-23, 10:40	Soft How would one do that? Devil in the details. Are you ready to accept door to door searches? Raids on businesses and farms? Random stops?
ace-of-aces 05-Jan-23, 11:14	Biden's new border and immigration policy. youtu.be http:///youtu.be/K-H2LCe_UFU Few hours ago, Biden announced extension of Title 42 and new border/immigration policy. He has no choice but to formulate a new border policy. He cannot ignore it and let title 42 expire. Otherwise, his chance of presidential re-election is nil. He will visit the border and Mexico. Please check the comments by people who watched youtube video above. Will Biden's new border policy work? The comments made by people who watched the video is mostly unfavorable. IMHO, I am doubtful that it will work. Something is missing. Can GK folks find out what is missing?
dmaestro 05-Jan-23, 14:16	Softaire Since Castro in the 1969a we have given SPECIAL treatment to Cuban refugees. www.wola.org Obviously politics and lobbying played a big role in that. Meanwhile Venezuelans leaving for similar reasons are stopped at the border and deported because there is no similar lobby. Because you favor very restricted immigration at best, you repeatedly ignore my request to say what is FACTUALLY wrong with the CATO analysis www.cato.org But what we are saying is that the immigration laws and system are broken and unnecessarily CREATE much of the “illegal” immigration www.cato.org and we need suitable immigration. It’s too hard and unfair to deport all those already settled here or just leave asylum seekers in dangerous conditions on the Mexican border simply because our system failed. That is why I support sanctuary cities.
lord_shiva 05-Jan-23, 19:59	Softy Challenge I don’t understand why Softaire is scared to take me up on this, but I have challenged him numerous times to cross the southern US border without ID. PROVE just how open the border is, pretty please.
lord_shiva 05-Jan-23, 20:02	Softy Challenge II Although this works best at any port of entry, you’re free to penetrate 100 km into Mexico anywhere you like, and then return. Please do it multiple times just to rub egg in my face. Or, stop lying about the US border. I sure wish Fox pundits were not such liars.
lord_shiva 05-Jan-23, 20:07	Anti Immigration Conservatives don’t completely oppose immigration. They, like Trump, just wonder why we have to accept immigrants from s*hole countries like those in Africa, instead of white some and delight some nations like Norway? Which reminds me, if you can Finish a Danish, why can’t you Norway a Swede?
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