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bobspringett
29-Dec-24, 23:52

Shiva 22:33
<Hey, we remain the world’s number one death merchant exporter.>

Yes, America continues to be the Arms Dealer of the World. And despite Federal laws that say otherwise, a lot of those exports seem to end up in the wrong hands.

But worry not, nor be concerned! Europe is now realising that it needs to control its own supply of armaments rather relying in American 'partners' (the mistake Ukraine made when it relied on the Budapest Memorandum of 1994, in which both America and Russia agreed to respect Ukrainian sovereignty within its borders at that time, and guaranteed that sovereignty against hostile action by the other signatories.)

That will mean that Europe will need to develop its own defence industries, and to make them profitable they will probably undercut American suppliers. And there's always North Korean and Chinese options in the marketplace, too. I can see American weapons manufacturers not being able to keep up with the cutting edge (specially if foreigners are not allowed to be employed), and eventually America might need to import European weapons.

I'm sure Germany will offer the 'Bobcat' tank (a budget-priced version of the Puma Mk 12 with the controls in English) and the French/Brits will come to the party with a good price for the 'Sparrow' (an economy version of the 'Peregrine' interceptor drone).

But America will continue to command the small arms market. The domestic market for assault rifles is big enough to maintain economies of scale without the need for exports.
lord_shiva
30-Dec-24, 22:07

Domestic Market
Very few leading industrial nations encourage citizens to procure light arms the way we do.

Mexico is suing Smith and Wesson and some gun shops over straw purchases for the cartels, who have murdered dozens of federales and politicians with American assault rifles, MAGA.

Congress passed legislation exempting gun manufacturers from civil lawsuits, but the legislation may not have covered international torts.

Congress ALSO barred the CDC from collecting data on gun violence. If Americans enjoy routine bloodbaths, the reasons cannot be scientifically examined using federal resources. MAGA.
bobspringett
30-Dec-24, 23:05

Shiva
<Congress ALSO barred the CDC from collecting data on gun violence.>

Of course! The Constitutional guarantee of privacy inherent in the 14th Amendment doesn't protect a woman's right to control what's happening inside her own body, but it protects gun criminals from having their actions recorded and collated into a database.
warriornegative1
31-Dec-24, 10:30

Violence
Awfully bad it's so world wide. Guns -I'm putting them first 'cause they're the most easily accessible - trains, planes and automobiles - all guided missiles. But you know what? Train sitting at the station, plane sitting at the tarmac, automobile parked somewhere, a gun laying on a table
all safe and sound until a human gets involved. So it seems to me it's a 'human' problem. MAGA or not it's how the brain is wired.
lord_shiva
31-Dec-24, 14:45

Human Problem
Trains are very, very rarely used to slaughter kindergarten tykes in their classrooms, shoppers in malls, country music fans, and so on. The number one cause of death in children under 18 years of age in the United States? Firearms.

I'm not arguing firearms should be banned. Semiautomatic rifles? Yes. These are wonderful tools on a battlefield. Why we feel the need for blood soaked classroom floors is quite beyond me. Why we feel our malls, businesses, theaters, and office Christmas parties must all be potential battlefields will never resonate in my mind.

240 people died from firearms in Australia in 2019. But Australia's population is much smaller than that of the United States: 25.65 million in 2020. The US population was 330 million, or 13 times as much. So multiply 240 by 13, we should expect 3000 Americans to die by firearms if the US was as poorly managed as Australia. Did 3000 Americans die by firearms in 2019? 6000? 12,000? 24,000?

Try thirty seven thousand. Houston, we have a problem!


Australia's firearm-related homicide rate for 2022 was 0.103 per 100,000 people.
The United States was 5.9 per 100,000 people. 5.9/0.103 = 57. We are 57 times worse than Australia. Obviously the answer is bigger magazines, larger bores, better sights, and cheaper, more accurate weapons, MAGA. Maybe a free map and blueprints to each local school with every purchase, plus steep discounts on ammunition for anyone who can document a history of violent mental illness or terrorist ties.

A deer rifle is a fine tool for big game. A pistol or shotgun is recommended for self defense and home defense, if you live in a questionable neighborhood or out in the wild. Most people will never face an armed assailant--I never have. But where is our pressing need for semiautomatic rifles? Civilians cannot buy these in Mexico. The cartels get most of theirs from the US, the better to defend their fentanyl shipments to us, MAGA.

FF was able to shoot 450 "rowdy" country music fans from his hotel window in Las Vegas, Nevada, killing over 50 of them, in a span of ten minutes. If he had a bolt action rifle with a seven round magazine, he might have gotten off thirty shots in that same amount of time, giving law enforcement much more time to intercept him, as well as more time for the crowd to flee. With the same kill 1:9 kill ratio (I don't know how many shots he fired missed altogether) he would have hit 30 people, killing three.

I like 3 better than 56, and 30 injured over 450. But we're not happy reducing the scale of violence, no sir. The wild ducks in Oregon cannot be hunted with shotgun magazines capable of holding more than three rounds. If you have a shotgun like that you have to stuff a limiter in the magazine, or face fines and worse. So the wild ducks get more of a sporting chance than Sandy Hook kindergarten tykes, God bless the USA. All those little kids, every single one, had a heartbeat before Adam Lanza stormed their school. Why are we incompetent to "pro-life" them?
lord_shiva
31-Dec-24, 15:11

Stalhandske
<<. I am still surprised that Putin wasn't sufficiently informed not to do that, since he will only lose now.>>

Stal wrote this back when Biden was president and we were providing arms to Ukraine. Biden just sent another big package to Ukraine to help Zalensky's negotiating position for when Donald assumes office and negotiates Ukraine's unconditional surrender. Putin gets to keep everything he has taken, and must be provided all arms shipments from the US and NATO nations. Hopefully Ukraine can destroy most of their supply so these don't fall into Putin's hands. Putin will then be "encouraged" (Donald's word) to invade Turkey, Norway, Slovenia, and a few other NATO allies ("do whatever he wants").

We were defanging the Russian bear at very little cost to us. What does a T-14 Armata cost, or a T-90? About $5 million? The FGM-148 Javelin runs a cool quarter million per pop. In other words, Ukraine could demolish 20 Russian orc tanks for the cost of one. Putin SHOULD have been stopped. Now instead he is encouraged. A very sad day indeed for our world, where war criminal dictators are rewarded for their lawless thievery and wanton murder.
bobspringett
31-Dec-24, 15:32

Shiva 14:45
<We are 57 times worse than Australia.>

That's a flattering comparison (I think!), but like all statistics it needs to be seen in context. Australia has much tighter gun laws, so perhaps Australians still kill each other with festive abandon, but using different weapons.

If you look at the stats for INTENTIONAL Homicide (i.e.,. excluding accidents, suicides, self-defence, etc), then the total intentional homicide rate in Australia in 2024 was 8.54 per million. The total homicide rate in USA was 57.63 per million. Not 57 times higher than Australia, but still a generous 6.75 times higher.

So it's probably more accurate to say that USA is a much more violent country; the easy access to guns simply makes firearm murder easier than other methods. Of course, that still leaves the chicken-and-egg question of how much the easy availability of firearms has contributed to this culture of violence. Certainly Hollywood has done its share of proclaiming that the quickest solution to any problem is immediate and overwhelming violence.

To answer this question of how much the availability of guns has influenced this culture of violence, let's look at a few other countries where guns are readily available. New Zealand is just across the Ditch from my treetop, and guns are easy to obtain legally. Their rate of total intentional homicides is just a touch over 11 per million, but with a population of just over 5 million this number is volatile. Five deaths more or less in a year (barely enough to make the news in America) would make this 10 deaths per million or 12 deaths per million.

Or we could go to Palestine, that hotbed of terrorism and lawlessness. Their intentional homicide rate is 14 per million, only a quarter of America's. (Of course, that doesn't count Palestinian farmers, women or children killed by Israeli soldiers or settlers, because all those deaths are classified as 'self defence', not intentional homicides.)

So better gun control won't eliminate murders, but it could be expected to reduce the count significantly in the short term for the reasons you give, and perhaps more importantly reduce the American culture of 'violence can solve my problem' in the longer term.

Even better would be a social structure that is more egalitarian, even 'social democratic', rather than hyper-competitive capitalist when most of the population know the deck is stacked so thoroughly in favour of inherited wealth and influence. This breeds resentment. The Nordic countries have moved a long way in that direction and have very low homicide rates (Norway 7.25/mill, Finland 9.82/mill, Denmark 9.86/mill, Sweden 11.47/mill) compared to the Land of the Free.
warriornegative1
31-Dec-24, 15:36

HUMAN PROBLEM
Again I say, put your deer rifle, pistol, shotgun loaded on a table. Without human intervention
they are harmless. I do not posses all the stats, figures, mathematical equations you have, there needs to be away some how to increase empathy, decrease apathy. Religion? A lot - and again I don't posses all the facts and figures - it seems like if you don't think/feel like I, you're an infidel.
An infidel is a person who doesn't share the same religious beliefs as someone else. Who is right, who is wrong? Guns don't kill people, people kill people. So what's to be done? Increase mental health help? That in itself is a LARGE undertaking.
bobspringett
31-Dec-24, 15:59

Lefty 15:36
Yes, very much a human problem.

And that makes it a complicated problem, because humans are complex critters. They don't operate predictably like machines or reflex arcs. But we seem to expect all answers to be simple, obvious, cheap and quick.

<Guns don't kill people, people kill people.>

Absolutely correct, but it's only part of the answer. A person with a gun can kill more, faster, quicker and from longer range than a person with no weapon. The military, in their own wonderful jargon, tend not to talk about 'weapons' as much as 'weapon systems'. This is not just the bullet that destroys an enemy's head. It includes the sights to acquire the target, the charge in the round to accelerate the bullet down the barrel, the barrel that aligns the trajectory, and most of all the human who decides whether or not to pull the trigger. Take away any one component and the 'weapons system' is no longer functional. interfere with one element (e.g., bend the barrel, misalign the sights) and the system is no longer as deadly or precise.

Your comment about mental health is effectively about modifying the human element, and would be a step in the right direction; but engineers like me prefer a bit of redundancy in case the first level of protection doesn't work. It would be prudent to take REASONABLE steps in regard to several factors, such as registration to allow tracking to be done more quickly and easily, competence testing, criminal record checks, secure storage requirements, etc.

Nothing that would prevent a person of good repute and mental/emotional stability from exercising his rights, but enough to reduce the frequency of unstable persons getting their hands onto a tool that can be used for mass murder, and to alert authorities to any unusual practices such as a registered gun owner also posting hate speech, etc.

Yes, that will cost money. How much are you prepared to spend to halve the number of schoolkids who are murdered in their classrooms?
lord_shiva
31-Dec-24, 16:06

Mental Health
<<Religion? A lot - and again I don't posses all the facts and figures - it seems like if you don't think/feel like I, you're an infidel. >>

You're not an infidel, whether you agree we need more, bigger, more powerful guns or not.

Softaire says the reason people in the US kill each other more frequentlly is because of video games, ADHD drugs, pornography, lack of school prayer, failure to post the ten commandments, Ritalin, CNN, drag queen shows and transgender library reading programs...

In the 1950s and 1960s we had semiautomatic rifles but these were not advertised in the popular gun magazines: American Rifleman, Guns & Ammo, Shooting Illustrated, NRA-ILA, etc.

AI says: The gun industry created the term "assault weapon" in 1984 to market military-style semi-automatic firearms like the AR-15 to civilians. The term was used in an effort to: Confuse voters, Advance a broad agenda, and Market military-style weapons for things like hunting and target shooting. The term "assault rifle" is a military term that denotes a select-fire rifle that uses intermediate cartridges, such as the M16.

So enthusiasts insist folding stocks and pistol grips are mere "cosmetic" changes, and I don't have any issue with that. My complaint isn't against the looks or beauty but the functionality. So far as I'm concerned that tiny "select fire" switch is the REAL cosmetic difference between an assault rifle and an assault weapon. In war soldiers only rarely flip to full auto as it burns through ammunition too fast without much added benefit.

And that's where we are now. If you don't have a shotgun or pistol to place on the table, no kid or adult is going to cart it off to school to lay down suppressing fire against teachers and fellow students.

Now, you can make the same complaint against trains and airplanes. And I'm fine with that. We don't pass out keys and licenses to folks who haven't taken a LOT of training to operate these things responsibly. And sure, people are still going to die. Replace pilots and drivers with autopilots and people are STILL going to die--we are clever at finding ways to off ourselves. And I don't even object to semiautomatic rifles for when they are needed, which is when we are being invaded, or when we need to attack Denmark so we can annex Greenland, MAGA.

I just don't see any reason at all to place weapons like these in the hands of the American public when we are NOT at war, except perhaps with ourselves. Where is any legitimate need? The reason I always here is "because the heart knows what it wants."

Wow.
bobspringett
31-Dec-24, 17:07

Shiva 16:06
<Softaire says the reason people in the US kill each other more frequently is because of video games, ADHD drugs, pornography, lack of school prayer, failure to post the ten commandments, Ritalin, CNN, drag queen shows and transgender library reading programs...>

Yes. And he has scientifically controlled, peer-reviewed studies to prove it. Strangely enough, the same doesn't apply to other jurisdictions in which video games, ADHD drugs, pornography, lack of school prayer, failure to post the ten commandments, Ritalin, CNN, drag queen shows and transgender library reading programs are just as common as in America. Research continues.

<I just don't see any reason at all to place weapons like these in the hands of the American public when we are NOT at war, except perhaps with ourselves. Where is any legitimate need?>

Just wait until some clever entrepreneur wants to market tactical-scale nukes to the domestic consumer. "If you want to make sure those Radical liberals don't come up the track to YOUR rural property to take your guns away, buy the Acme 'Little Persuader'! With an explosive power of 15 tonnes of TNT (NOT 'kilotonnes', just 'tonnes'), it's big enough to take out a convoy of commies without damaging your homestead. Recommended by Wyle E. Coyote." That's a 'legitimate need'.

If 'bearing arms' when the only arms were the single-shot musket and the muzzle-loading smooth-bore cannon can be extended to automatic rifles with hundred-cartridge magazines, then why can't it also be extended to nukes?
lord_shiva
10-Jan-25, 17:05

You Load 15 Tons, and What Do You Get?
Critical mass is a minimal amount required for nuclear detonation. We can reduce the yield by shaping and other tricks, but not down to 15 tons.

…what do you know? I wanted to find the smallest nuke and I am wrong. We managed to get it clear down to ten tons!

“The W54 warhead used on the Davy Crockett weighed just 51 pounds and was the smallest and lightest fission bomb (implosion type) ever deployed by the United States, with a variable explosive yield of 0.01 kilotons (equivalent to 10 tons of TNT, or two to four times as powerful as the ammonium nitrate bomb which ...“
bobspringett
10-Jan-25, 18:58

Shiva
That sounds like it's the military version of the Acme 'Little Persuader'!

Will they be made available as Army Surplus? Will we be able to buy them at 'nuke shows', like we can buy assault rifles at gun shows? Or will those damn commies put unconstitutional restrictions on them, like needing a licence?
lord_shiva
10-Jan-25, 23:40

Little Persuader
So the civilian model still requires the full 1 kiloton fissile amount, but shaping, neutron absorption, and other tricks allow this to be dialed down to 10 tons. In fact, the civilian version eliminates the dial, much the way select fire switches are missing from civilian assault rifles.

However, one can “jailbreak” their little persuader to restore full 1 kiloton capability, with only a little bit of tinkering. But right, off the shelf 10 ton crowd control, stump removal, property clearing, waste disposal, neighborhood noise suppression, all ideal applications. Urban renewal.

Range is 1.25 to 2.5 miles. I don’t think you would typically want to set one off at closer range.
bobspringett
11-Jan-25, 00:07

Shiva 23:40
Yes, you list many 'legitimate needs' for a personal nuke, for which I thank you.

Your point about 'tinkering' is also well taken. If Brad Hamilton (not his real name) can buy one, then why can't he buy several? Even if it means going interstate to avoid any commie 'registration' requirements. The internet provides easy instructions, so long as there are a few thousand dollars available for the equipment. Look them up using free wi-fi at some outdoors cafe. So a bit of backyard handyman work and anyone with the skills could put together a 5 kilotonne unit. That should be enough to clean out any Commie convoy! Or even re-arrange the furniture in the Pentagon. Yankee Stadium on a busy night would be no problem at all.

The range you quote confuses me. Perhaps you are talking about the Army delivery system designed decades ago. We are talking about a bomb, not a delivery system! Don't you realise that there are several outlets that can sell you a drone that can deliver a hundred kilogrammes over several miles in a matter of a minute? These can be launched from any public park, or from a private property secure against security cameras if there is a need for secrecy.

Yep. America welcomes mass murderers!
lord_shiva
11-Jan-25, 06:34

Delivery System
We were simply discussing the civilian version of “obsolete” military ordnance. The warhead (including trigger)… You know, a related demolitions unit was the SADM. It plus the firing mechanism weighed 60 lbs. A bit heavy, but rent a drone and you can maximize effect with an air burst at appropriate height.

We need to start advertising campaigns to develop the consumer nuke market. Special Atomic Demolition Munitions, way more fun than Tannerite. Celebrate the Fourth of July in style. Impress the neighbors. These flash bang noisemakers really light up the sky.
lord_shiva
19-Feb-25, 09:49

Vance Lies in EU
<< My point is that, while I don't know the specifics of the Vance examples... if they happen to be true, then his warning should be heeded. We have seen those very things he mentioned done here in the USA and, fortunately, most Americans have realized that the WOK agenda of the Progressives simply does not work and is destructive.>>

Destructive. Well, that is a bold lie. Empathy is destructive? The Americans with Disabilities Act, flagship of the “woke” agenda, is destructive? Do tell.
obsteve
19-Feb-25, 15:16

Shiv
Trump:

• Claims America is giving a lot more than Europe to Ukraine

• Claims Zelensky support is down to 4%

• Claims Zelensky is a dictator because he’s not called elections

+++

Vance:

• Claims private prayer in Scotland is now a "thought crime"

• Claims "free speech is in retreat" in Europe

• Claims the greatest threat is not Russia or China, but "from within" Europe


+++

Destructive and bold lies, indeed.

In the age of information, how is it these demonstrable falsehoods gain traction, and hold power over so many?

And WTF is this American administration up to?
lord_shiva
19-Feb-25, 19:54

Lies
The important thing to bear in mind when Comrade Groper speaks is that he is a liar. He apparently taught President Musk to lie just as vehemently.

Does the US give more than Europe?

If Bulgaria is Europe, then yes. We give more than Bulgaria. We give more than France, which is disappointing to me. But we do not give more than Europe as a whole. Denmark gives five times what we provide, I was surprised to learn. Estonia gives far more than us. Those guys really have their hearts in the right place.

Lithuania, Latvia, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Poland, Germany, the UK—all give more than us. Hell, even Canada gives more than us. Slovakia and Croatia give more than we do.

Every statement Groper makes is just a bald faced lie. Musk’s lies are not bald faced, given that little stubble he keeps on his chin.

www.statista.com

If we dedicated half as much as Estonia, Russia’s ass would be kicked the hell out of Ukraine AND Crimea, and they would happily pay reparations for their unprovoked war. Putler should face a firing squad.
lord_shiva
19-Feb-25, 20:00

4%?
Comrade Groper claims Zelensky is at 4%. The actual figure is 57%. Groper is off by 53%, which is far better than his typical lies.

www.euronews.com

So where does the felon-in-chief get his erroneous bull crap? Generally from between his ungulate horns.
lord_shiva
19-Feb-25, 20:03

Sad
The American public decided “we need someone to feed us bullshit and when we choke on it, to tamp it down with splintered redwood rods, MAGA.”

If you can imagine painful redwood splinters in your esophagus, like the ones set fire under your fingernails, you know just what the American public demanded.
mo-oneandmore
19-Feb-25, 21:08

Warrier
Your "I'm worried about Putin. If he feels cornered, don't get his way... Seems like he might of bit off more than he thought but he ain't backing down." comment when you first started this this forum back in 2023."


Putin's got nothing to worry about now and he no longer needs to use his big bombs his mind because he now has trump hand-in hand with him about Ukraine.
And trump will likely gift Ukraine to him and hand Zelinskee to him on a stick for a few gallons of oil and some Ukraine mineral rights.

Putin might also agree to close his eyes when trump sends his troops to Greenland, Canada, Panama and Mexico if trump gives him free access to a few more European countries and maybe some of the Middle East, huh?
dmaestro
20-Feb-25, 11:38

Putin has nothing to worry about. Trump is his man.

I gave up on the majority of Americans a while ago. An arrogant nation headed for a fated fall. What makes me sad is just that the fact so many didn’t understand we were too different for warnings to be heeded and misplaced faith the Constitution meant this could not happen here. Of course it can.
obsteve
20-Feb-25, 12:42

57% approval rating?
There's UK politicians would give their eye teeth for that
jonheck
20-Feb-25, 23:40

going out the loud way
What about Putins health, and healthy or not he will be dropping out sooner than later? Would he choose to go out with a bang? The same question can be asked about trump! I suppose there is little point in worrying about it. In the meantime we got trump, the clear and present danger. We can adjust which world leaders we worry about after that nightmare is over
Bro
lord_shiva
28-Feb-25, 20:04

Unbelievable - Transcript of Zelenskyy / White House
The White House interview with Zelenskyy was the most shameful thing I have witnessed Comrade Krasnov Groper do yet.

Zelenskyy White House Interview

Vance: “For four years, the United States of America, we had a president who stood up at press conferences and talked tough about Vladimir Putin, and then Putin invaded Ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk of the country. The path to peace and the path to prosperity is, maybe, engaging in diplomacy. We tried the pathway of Joe Biden, of thumping our chest and pretending that the president of the United States’ words mattered more than the president of the United States’ actions. What makes America a good country is America engaging in diplomacy. That’s what President Trump is doing.”
Zelenskyy: “Can I ask you?”
Vance: “Sure. Yeah.”
Zelenskyy: “OK. So he (Putin) occupied it, our parts, big parts of Ukraine, parts of east and Crimea. So he occupied it in 2014. So during a lot of years — I’m not speaking about just Biden, but those times was (Barack) Obama, then President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now President Trump. And God bless, now, President Trump will stop him. But during 2014, nobody stopped him. He just occupied and took. He killed people. You know what the --"
Trump: “2015?”
Zelenskyy: “2014.”
Trump: “Oh, 2014? I was not here.”
Vance: “That’s exactly right.”
Zelenskyy: “Yes, but during 2014 ‘til 2022, the situation is the same, that people have been dying on the contact line. Nobody stopped him. You know that we had conversations with him, a lot of conversations, my bilateral conversation. And we signed with him, me, like, you, president, in 2019, I signed with him the deal. I signed with him, (French President Emmanuel) Macron and (former German Chancellor Angela) Merkel. We signed ceasefire. Ceasefire. All of them told me that he will never go … But after that, he broke the ceasefire, he killed our people, and he didn’t exchange prisoners. We signed the exchange of prisoners. But he didn’t do it. What kind of diplomacy, JD, you are speaking about? What do you mean?”
Vance: “I’m talking about the kind of diplomacy that’s going to end the destruction of your country. Mr. President, with respect, I think it’s disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office to try to litigate this in front of the American media. Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems. You should be thanking the president for trying to bring an end to this conflict.”
Zelenskyy: “Have you ever been to Ukraine that you say what problems we have?”Vance: “I have been to –”
Zelenskyy: “Come once.”
Vance: “I’ve actually watched and seen the stories, and I know that what happens is you bring people, you bring them on a propaganda tour, Mr. President. Do you disagree that you’ve had problems, bringing people into your military?”
Zelenskyy: “We have problems –”
Vance: “And do you think that is respectful to come to the Oval Office of the United States of America and attack the administration that is trying to prevent the destruction of your country?”
Zelenskyy: “A lot of questions. Let’s start from the beginning.”
Vance: “Sure.”
Zelenskyy: “First of all, during the war, everybody has problems, even you. But you have nice ocean and don’t feel now. But you will feel it in the future. God bless –”
Trump: “You don’t know that. You don’t know that. Don’t tell us what we’re going to feel. We’re trying to solve a problem. Don’t tell us what we’re going to feel.”
Zelenskyy: “I’m not telling you. I am answering on these questions.”
Trump: “Because you’re in no position to dictate that.”
Vance: “That’s exactly what you’re doing.”
Trump: “You are in no position to dictate what we’re going to feel. We’re going to feel very good.”
Zelenskyy: “You will feel influenced.”
Trump: “We are going to feel very good and very strong.”
Zelenskyy: “I am telling you. You will feel influenced.”
Trump: “You’re, right now, not in a very good position. You’ve allowed yourself to be in a very bad position –”
Zelenskyy: “From the very beginning of the war —”
Trump: “You’re not in a good position. You don’t have the cards right now. With us, you start having cards.”
Zelenskyy: “I’m not playing cards. I’m very serious, Mr. President. I’m very serious.”
Trump: “You’re playing cards. You’re gambling with the lives of millions of people. You’re gambling with World War III.”
Zelenskyy: “What are you speaking about?”
Trump: “You’re gambling with World War III. And what you’re doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country that’s backed you far more than a lot of people said they should have.”
Vance: “Have you said thank you once?”
Zelenskyy: “A lot of times. Even today.”
Vance: “No, in this entire meeting. You went to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in October.”
Zelenskyy: “No.”
Vance: “Offer some words of appreciation for the United States of America and the president who’s trying to save your country.”
Zelenskyy: “Please. You think that if you will speak very loudly about the war, you can –”
Trump: “He’s not speaking loudly. He’s not speaking loudly. Your country is in big trouble.”
Zelenskyy: “Can I answer —”
Trump: “No, no. You’ve done a lot of talking. Your country is in big trouble.”
Zelenskyy: “I know. I know.”
Trump: “You’re not winning. You’re not winning this. You have a damn good chance of coming out OK because of us.”
Zelenskyy: “Mr. President, we are staying in our country, staying strong. From the very beginning of the war, we’ve been alone. And we are thankful. I said thanks.”

Trump: “If you didn’t have our military equipment, this war would have been over in two weeks.”
Zelenskyy: “In three days. I heard it from Putin. In three days.”
Trump: “Maybe less. It’s going to be a very hard thing to do business like this, I tell you.
Vance: “Just say thank you.”
Zelenskyy: “I said a lot of times, thank you, to American people.”
Vance: “Accept that there are disagreements, and let’s go litigate those disagreements rather than trying to fight it out in the American media when you’re wrong. We know that you’re wrong.”
Trump: “But you see, I think it’s good for the American people to see what’s going on. I think it’s very important. That’s why I kept this going so long. You have to be thankful.”
Zelenskyy: “I’m thankful.”
Trump: “You don’t have the cards. You’re buried there. People are dying. You’re running low on soldiers. It would be a damn good thing, and then you tell us, ‘I don’t want a ceasefire. I don’t want a ceasefire, I want to go, and I want this.’ Look, if you can get a ceasefire right now, I tell you, you take it so the bullets stop flying and your men stop getting killed.”
Zelenskyy: “Of course we want to stop the war. But I said to you, with guarantees.”
Trump: “Are you saying you don’t want a ceasefire? I want a ceasefire. Because you’ll get a ceasefire faster than an agreement.”
Zelenskyy: “Ask our people about a ceasefire, what they think.”
Trump: “That wasn’t with me. That was with a guy named Biden, who is not a smart person.”
Zelenskyy: “This is your president. It was your president.”
Trump: “Excuse me. That was with Obama, who gave you sheets, and I gave you Javelins. I gave you the Javelins to take out all those tanks. Obama gave you sheets. In fact, the statement is Obama gave sheets, and Trump gave Javelins. You’ve got to be more thankful because let me tell you, you don’t have the cards. With us, you have the cards, but without us, you don’t have any cards.”

Vance, restating a reporter’s question: “She is asking what if Russia breaks the ceasefire.”
Trump: “What, if anything? What if the bomb drops on your head right now? OK, what if they broke it? I don’t know, they broke it with Biden because Biden, they didn’t respect him. They didn’t respect Obama. They respect me. Let me tell you, Putin went through a hell of a lot with me. He went through a phony witch hunt ... All I can say is this. He might have broken deals with Obama and Bush, and he might have broken them with Biden. He did, maybe. Maybe he did. I don’t know what happened, but he didn’t break them with me. He wants to make a deal. I don’t know if you can make a deal.”

“The problem is I’ve empowered you (turning toward Zelenskyy) to be a tough guy, and I don’t think you’d be a tough guy without the United States. And your people are very brave. But you’re either going to make a deal or we’re out. And if we’re out, you’ll fight it out. I don’t think it’s going to be pretty, but you’ll fight it out. But you don’t have the cards. But once we sign that deal, you’re in a much better position, but you’re not acting at all thankful. And that’s not a nice thing. I’ll be honest. That’s not a nice thing.
“All right, I think we’ve seen enough. What do you think? This is going to be great television. I will say that.”

lord_shiva
28-Feb-25, 20:17

Appeasing Putler
11% of Americans have a favorable opinion of the evil war criminal Vladolf Putler. 78% have an unfavorable opinion of the murderous dictator and Butcher of Buchna. Yet our president curries favor with the despot. Trump orders Pam Bondi to dismantle the DOJ Russian asset forfeiture task force. Who does THAT benefit? Trump cuts funding for the USAID program to restore the electrical grid Putler targets to hurt civilians. Who does THAT help? Trump accuses Zelenskyy of inviting Putler’s unprovoked invasion. TASS was in the room during the interview, but the AP and Reuters were banned. Pam Bondi also terminated the program to combat foreign influence in US politics, and Trump insists Russia must be readmitted into the G7. Who does THAT benefit? Comrade Krasnov then fired hundreds of CIA employees. I cannot imagine who outside the GRU could be more delighted.

My biggest election issues were the war in Ukraine. Krasnov (Groper’s Russian asset code name) promised to surrender Ukraine to Putin. Groper also promised to wage war on our environment, to increase fossil fuel consumption even if it meant despoiling public lands, and to oppose renewable energy and not enforce regulations on clean air and water. F* Ukraine, and f* the American people who cannot afford villas on the French Riviera. F* the Palestinians, Gaza will be ethnic cleansed to become to Israel what southern France is to France. F* NATO and the EU. F* Mexico too—we’ll just rename the Gulf as a swollen middle finger to “Verminland.” F* Canada, because… WTF? Why f* over Canada? And while we are at it, f* Denmark too. Henceforth Greenland will be known as ”Red, White, and Blueland,” a sweaty middle finger of our other hand. And f* Panama because they were mean to Groper.

Please, I pleaded. Groper will spend all four years J6ing the nation. He is a small minded, weak minded tyrant focused on retaliation. He hates Zelenskyy because the Ukrainian leader balked at announcing a phony investigation into Biden, despite Groper’s impoundment of Javelin antitank weapons to extort foreign subversion of our election. Impeachment #1. That is what this “Ukraine can go to Russian hell” is all about.
lord_shiva
28-Feb-25, 20:46

Former Russian President Responds
They (Groper and Vance) treated Zelenskyy like an insolent pig who deserved a good slap down.

www.politico.com
lord_shiva
28-Feb-25, 20:48

Pete Hegseth
has ordered our cyber security to cease all Russian operations.

meduza.io

TF?
aussiespud
28-Feb-25, 23:51

I just watched that interview. Unbelievable. Anyone who still has any doubts about the fact that the US is effectively being run by Abbot and Costello needs their own head examined. I assume that the 77 Mill that voted for him would have been happy, I wonder how long it will take for the other 260 Mill to wake up to those two clowns.
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