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From	Message
zorroloco 10-Jan-23, 11:51	DM You're telling me?
dmaestro 10-Jan-23, 11:52	How is asylum in Mexico as it currently is due in large part to the USA’s failed drug wars and past meddling a significant improvement for migrants?   Let them eat cake, eh!
dmaestro 10-Jan-23, 12:03	Z I know you know. It takes patience of a Saint to engage them and given how ignorant and dangerous they are it doesn’t matter as I predict we will end up in conflict regardless. I learned my lesson.
thumper 10-Jan-23, 12:07	Z I'm actually not an 'analyst' like DM claims to be. I'm just a former aerospace engineer inspector with a background in metallurgy who worked his way through college as a paralegal with a side side gig as a PI. Military notwithstanding, those disciplines aren't as eclectic as they may seem.
dmaestro 10-Jan-23, 12:08	amp.theguardian.com Let these “freeloading” handout seeking migrants stay in Mexico.
zorroloco 10-Jan-23, 12:09	Thumper Wasn't asking you for your resume. Just asking you think deeper.
thumper 10-Jan-23, 12:12	Z What are your qualifications to 'think deeper'?
zorroloco 10-Jan-23, 12:19	Thumper In this realm, I have an MA in Central American History and community development and speak Spanish fluently. I’ve spent over two years in Mexico Guatemala El Salvador Honduras and Belize. Did a two month internship at an agricultural school in Honduras and went in a human rights delegation to monitor the peace accords after the civil war. My wife is from a Mexican family we visit outside of Oaxaca. Maybe I understand a little about this topic
thumper 10-Jan-23, 12:43	Z I already knew those things about you and not once did I call you an arrogant braggart or legend in your own mind.  Truth told I think you understand quite a bit about the subject... but so do others. Would it surprise you that my wife's family came to America from Nigeria via the Atlantic slave trade? Would it surprise you to learn there is a very large population of Hispanic workers in my area many of whom are friends and neighbors? They don't like illegals either.
zorroloco 10-Jan-23, 12:48	Thumper None of that surprises me. I knew it. I don't think you're racist, even if you don't recognize it and allow in your club. I only mentioned my credentials because you asked. It's not bragging if you're specifically asked. And it's true you haven't used those particular insults against me, but there are plenty others you have used   But I have a thick skin for insults against me.
lord_shiva 10-Jan-23, 19:31	<< I have a friend from Nigeria who lawfully and legally immigrated to the US a few years ago. His (new) wife who's also from Nigeria is currently going through the legal immigration process and should be here in just over a month. >> Whoa, he must be very rich. A woman who married a legal immigrant and bore children with him and who voted for Groper ended up with Groper deporting her husband, busting up her family. She didn’t qualify for much public assistance, just SNAP, and could not provide for her children on her own. Not at all an uncommon story during the Groper years. Most such cases require years. My college buddy married a German woman who taught microbiology at a local university. It took her years and years to get her US citizenship. It was a big struggle, though they did not spend as much as many do.
softaire 10-Jan-23, 21:34	LS "A woman who married a legal immigrant and bore children with him and who voted for Groper ended up with Groper deporting her husband, busting up her family. She didn’t qualify for much public assistance, just SNAP, and could not provide for her children on her own." Any chance you can back that up with a link(s) to articles that confirm this?
lord_shiva 11-Jan-23, 07:16	CNN I had one detail wrong, he wasn’t a legal immigrant. www.cnn.com
softaire 11-Jan-23, 07:30	IF true, the story highlights the reasons why we need a comprehensive immigration reform that allows for a review and settlement for those cases, on a case by case basis. Until then, he broke the immigration laws that we have on the books. They say he must be deported. I wish it were enforced today at our border.
zorroloco 11-Jan-23, 07:48	Softy “we need a comprehensive immigration reform that allows for a review and settlement for those cases, on a case by case basis.” Absolutely! This starts by accurately defining the problem.
dmaestro 11-Jan-23, 20:40	1986 www.yahoo.com 1986. That was the last time we had significant bipartisan immigration reform. While people like Softaire distort facts, and anti-immigrants have taken over the GOP and blocked reform, we can still work for a more rational humanitarian solution.
softaire 12-Jan-23, 17:35	DM distorts what other people say. For example, he says that I distort the facts but he fails to mention which facts I have distorted. That's convenient for him, isn't it.
lord_shiva 17-Jan-23, 06:38	Reform The GOP seeks to impeach Mayorkas for seizing fentanyl at the US border. Their other big plan for improving border security? Defunding the border patrol. www.dailykos.com
zorroloco 17-Jan-23, 07:10	Softy I pointed out how you distort facts every time you say we have an open border. You threw a hissy fit and said you’d ignore me. Just saying
dmaestro 19-Jan-23, 16:54	www.yahoo.com This is ridiculous for a “friendship” park. It’s like visiting someone in a prison. They could do better without affecting security. I went there once before 911 and now it’s a sick joke. Softaire distorts facts and that is a fact.
softaire 19-Jan-23, 18:06	DM distorts what other people say. For example, he says that I distort the facts but he fails to mention which facts I have distorted. That's convenient for him, isn't it.
zorroloco 19-Jan-23, 18:12	Softy I pointed out how you distort facts every time you say we have an open border. You threw a hissy fit and said you’d ignore me. Just saying
lord_shiva 20-Jan-23, 06:32	Does He Do It? Does Softy distort facts, or is he simply repeating nonsense distorted by someone else? When you hear “open borders” repeated on Fox often enough, do you unthinkingly repeat the nonsense? I’m sure Ace drinks from the same tainted well.
softaire 20-Jan-23, 14:19	LS I don't believe that I an distorting any facts. YOU are telling everyone that I distort facts. But you (as well as DM) do not say which facts I distort. I have quite often listed the things that I think are wrong or bad with ILLEGAL immigration. You might disagree with those ideas but you do not say which ideas or why. Can you now list which of ideas that I claim are bad ideas about immigration and tell us why?
stalhandske 20-Jan-23, 21:06	Softaire I think that by 'distorting facts' they mainly mean the statement you seem to be making that the US southern border is open, and that this is caused by actions by the Biden administration. Especially for non US citizens who may not know any of the details, the term open borders sounds as if anyone could just walk across. I am sure that this is not what you mean, but please understand that by phrasing the problem this way you are joining a political choir led by Fox News. I understand that it is difficult to give the problem (because everyone agrees there IS a problem!) a useful brief and catchy name that would still be describing the truth. But, I think the first step in trying to solve the problem is to strip it of its political clothing, define it properly and factually, and then discuss what could be done in reality to solve it (or at least diminish it).
lord_shiva 20-Jan-23, 21:13	This or That I thought I made it abundant,y clear that you were not the author PCR of these lies, merely engaged in the willing dissemination of facts grossly distorted by professional liars.
zorroloco 20-Jan-23, 21:20	Shiva Except the ‘open borders’ fallacy has been explained repeatedly to Soft, which he has never acknowledged. And he continues to repeat it. Distortion is pretty kind.
lord_shiva 20-Jan-23, 21:27	In That Sense He does kind of own it, doesn’t he. I thought he agreed that our borders are not open.
bobspringett 20-Jan-23, 22:05	Softie has said that he wants to tidy up the whole question of LEGAL immigration. I can understand that position. But it does lead to the obvious next set of questions:- 1. On what basis is immigration to be 'legal'? What processes, numbers, criteria, etc? It's easy for a total redneck (not to say that Softie is one!) to say he fully supports 'legal immigration', so long ans the law forbids immigration except by people who already qualify for citizenship (e.g., foreign-born children of citizens). 2. What procedures are to be adopted to prevent illegal immigration? Once again, it's easy for our hypothetical redneck to suggest minefields and machine guns. But so long as people deliberately muddy even the definitions and adopt outliers as if 'typicals', no progress will ever be made. I suggest that this is exactly what some people want; for plenty of illegal immigration, so they can blackmail such immigrants.
softaire 20-Jan-23, 22:31	In December of 2022, there were over 250,000 people who crossed into the USA ILLEGALLY. That means NOT through a port of entry with a passport, green card, or other authorization. NO country in the world (other than the USA) allows that. THAT is an invasion and something the Constitution says that the President is to NOT allow. No country can allow 200,000 to 250,000 people to enter the country ILLEGALLY each and every month. I have mentioned the extreme hardships the immigrants go through to get here and the extreme cost of housing, feeding, clothing, educating, providing transportation and medical care for all those people. I have mentioned that the drugs being smuggled in cost America over 100,000 lives last year. The cost in terms of crime and peoples lives is enormous. When 250,000 people can cross into a country ILLEGALLY each month, that is an "OPEN BORDER". It is NOT difficult to understand. You don't need to hate migrants in order to want secure borders and lawful entry. To argue this is simply infantile.
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