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From	Message
illinawek 12-Mar-12, 15:26	Babe Limbaugh is a jackass. I would beware taking up his cause lest you be thought guilty by association.
changeling 12-Mar-12, 15:32	I don't think babe100 (nice name I guess, a reference to the movie of the same name perhaps!) understands the word misogynist. It is one thing to joke around in ones own circle using sexist remarks (even though quite abhorrent to every women I have ever met, and I suspect every woman out there), it is another to use a public television show to do the same. Does this guy really think that anyone calling a high profile (not her fault) thirteen year old girl a 'dog' on television is a nice guy? I suppose this troll has deflected the real issues in the thread, as trolls are want to do.
babe100 12-Mar-12, 16:02	Pawns Hey, wait a minute. I've seen this before. Adults using women and children as "human shields". Really, is this all you have? Lame.
changeling 12-Mar-12, 16:14	babe: Are you trying to prove some sort of inane point here or what?
zorroloco 12-Mar-12, 16:43	netzlogbuch.de thanks to mark for this most useful site.
dmaestro 14-Mar-12, 09:44	Fire Limbaugh New Bloomberg poll has 53% who think Rush should be fired for these comments. By 56% to 39%, women want him fired. Even a third of republicans want him gone. But the majority of republicans will follow their true leader the vile El Rushbo in dittohead, lemming like fashion, even if it costs them the election.
zorroloco 14-Mar-12, 09:53	< Does this guy really think that anyone calling a high profile (not her fault) thirteen year old girl a 'dog' on television is a nice guy?> well... i cannot speak for others, so i will let others' words speak for themselves: <I have always known Rush to speak fairly and with respect towards women.> lol.
dmaestro 14-Mar-12, 11:34	A Rush dittohead is a mindless bigoted zombie who agrees with whatever Rush says. There are millions of his robotic minions. Dialogue with them is useless although mockery of them can be amusing.
shamash 14-Mar-12, 12:40	must have slipped Rush's rush to judgment regarding the post quoting the post: <<"I have always known Rush to speak fairly and with respect towards women.">> Then there is this gem from J.L. Free: <<"It is just as easy to love a good one as a bad one. . . But all, at one time, were selected for one common trait: eagerness to please a man.">>
thearrtofnoise 14-Mar-12, 16:24	Just because the man cannot carry the child ... does not mean he can be cut out of the decision-making and the upbringing. This debate is so slanted against fathers it's pathetic.
zorroloco 14-Mar-12, 16:27	art i agree that the father should have a say. cutting the father out of the decision is unjust and unethical. i absolutely agree. but, the ultimate decision needs to be the woman's. she is the one creating the child out of her body. she is carrying the child. she is the one putting her life at risk to deliver the child. furthermore, this issue is one of the legality and accessibility of abortions. not about who gets to make the decision, but whether the decision is even legal to make. still though, in essence, i agree with you.
thearrtofnoise 14-Mar-12, 16:35	The pro-abortioners have lost the debate ... in the United States. People have changed their minds about whether or not the pregnancy is a life. The liberals have failed to maintain the illusion that it is not life. Common sense ruled and America is more pro-life now that it has ever been in the since Roe v. Wade. Killing someone is still killing, legal or not. The number of abortion 'clinics' have gone down from 1500 to 500. We are developing a culture of life at the earliest signs.
zorroloco 14-Mar-12, 16:54	art and that is a good thing...as long as it is an organic process and we do not go towards prohibition and back alley abortions.
dmaestro 14-Mar-12, 19:35	No one claims that the fetus is not living, but life at conception and human life are not the same, despite religious nonsense. The most critical legal point is viability. Only in extremely rare cases where there is a fatal defect and/or grave danger to the mother should abortions be done once the fetus is viable. If done, they should be done as early as feasible when the fetus is very small and undeveloped. Birth control and RU 486 use should be encouraged to reduce unplanned pregnancies in the first place. Abortions for rape or incest should not be restricted. Pro life fascists should mind their own business and not be allowed to criminalize abortions per se once again. Polls continue to show lack of support for pro life extremism.
zorroloco 15-Mar-12, 04:31	<Birth control and RU 486 use should be encouraged to reduce unplanned pregnancies in the first place.> this seems obvious. i don't get why antiabortion folks do not encourage the use of birth control in order to reduce unwanted pregnancies and abortions. but it appears to be the opposite - they are against abortion, but argue against the very thing that would reduce them the most. that is insane. it is like being against heart attacks and wanting to ban exercise.
dmaestro 15-Mar-12, 09:14	There is a long standing religious tradition which is still catholic and evangelical dogma for example that it is a sin to engage in any practice other than abstinence as birth control. Be fruitful and multiply and all that. If sinning has not severe consequences that is not gods will. It isn't rational but who are we to question god or holy books?
zorroloco 15-Mar-12, 09:25	catholic prohibition the catholic absolute prohibition on contraception only dates to the 1930's. to be fair, they were against contraception before this, but this was the time when it was declared to be against catholic doctrine. less than one hundred years ago. The total prohibition of artificial birth control methods by the Roman Catholic church, declared by Pope Pius XI in his 1930 encyclical, Casi Connubii, was maintained by the 1968 Humanae vitae (the encyclical of Pope Paul VI), and constitutes the present day policy of the church. The Catholic position on contraception is highly influenced by the natural law theory of Aristotle, Augustine and Aquinas, which deems that sexuality has as its end purpose, procreation; to interfere in this end would be a violation of the natural law, and thus, a sin. This view is maintained by some Anglicans, Evangelicals, and Christian fundamentalist denominations as well. The Catholic Church sanctions only abstinence and the Natural Family Planning method (NFP) as suitable techniques for birth control.
zorroloco 15-Mar-12, 09:30	by the way for contrast, look at how the eastern orthodox church treats contraception: Unlike the Catholic tradition, the Eastern Orthodox Church does not discern a moral difference between artificial or natural birth control methods. They note that many Church Fathers, as well as the Pauline texts in the New Testament, do not strictly limit sexual intercourse to procreation; the Orthodox position is that sexual intercourse also constitutes an expression of love within the marriage contract. No official statement has been made on prohibitions for artificial contraceptives, while abortion, infanticide and permanent sterilization have been condemned. The Orthodox Church allows a married couple to make their own decisions on contraceptive use.
shamash 15-Mar-12, 09:42	in a church, do adults turn into children? regarding the posting: <<"The Orthodox Church allows a married couple to make their own decisions. . . ">> Are adults children that they need a Church to regulate their direct, personal relationship with God?
zorroloco 15-Mar-12, 10:06	sham apparently the catholic church believes so.
babe100 15-Mar-12, 11:27	Zorro and his real agenda It would seem, Zorro, that since you mock the religious point of view on birth control, etc., your real intent must be to target minority population growth. Without these population limiters that you advocate, the importance and influence of the white liberal majority is reduced.
zorroloco 15-Mar-12, 12:11	babe and his real agenda. www.intheweird.com
babe100 15-Mar-12, 13:34	Fear Mongering For those who can hear - listen: The policy of these libs is to pretend they represent that which is good and just. They represent themselves as protecting every victim, woman and child. "They" will protect and defend you. Life is a funny thing and represents itself in daily interactions. If you look through these threads - take your pick - you'll see brazen bullying, hatred of women, children and all of life's freedoms. Freedom that has been fought for by people with courage and conviction. People that have character and strength. People who don't have a mob mentality. People who respect the rights and beliefs of others. These guys cannot lead. They have no heart and true conviction. Zorro would dismiss a religious person feeding the hungry as her holy books tell her to do in favor of the "rights" of a terrorist out for bloodshed. Do not fear these weak men - they ain't got nothing. Like every bully they fold real easy.
zorroloco 15-Mar-12, 14:07	Deleted by zorroloco on 15-Mar-12, 14:24.
changeling 15-Mar-12, 16:10	babe:"...a religious person feeding the hungry as her holy books tell her to do.." You do know that the catholic church sent and gave out bibles (not food) to the starving in Africa recently?
zorroloco 15-Mar-12, 16:58	Deleted by zorroloco on 15-Mar-12, 17:21.
thearrtofnoise 15-Mar-12, 17:42	dmaestro That sounds like quasi-pseudo-intellectual double speak: "No one claims that the fetus is not living, but life at conception and human life are not the same ..." It's either life or it's not. And the Hippocratic Oath has been modified to fit "shifting attitudes and standards" The woman knows the life and feels the life. And everyone else is just trying to persuade her. I offer that we should be PRAYING FOR HER and her child instead of trying to be blood-sucking lawyers.
thearrtofnoise 15-Mar-12, 17:46	changeling Not to challenge your integrity or anything, but can you attach a source and a link to that? For wall we know, that was reported by the White House of all people. Catholics would atleast appreciate that on your part. (I'm not a member.)
changeling 15-Mar-12, 18:00	theartofnoise I am leaving right now to catch a plane (away for a couple of days): will answer and try and find the source I saw on my return.
ace-of-aces 15-Mar-12, 20:32	Life begins at the embryo stage. That is when the sperm and female egg ( ovum ) successfully meet together and fuse. Animal cloning experiments show, the embryo can also be formed from adult cells. That is the reason experiments are banned on human embryos. The funny thing is that if the abortion is allowed why can't the scientists be allowed to experiment on human embryos?
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