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soulcrates 16-Sep-06, 21:17	If you think that I bashed a tool of our dictator in chief, because she is an African-American, then you should really check out my profile. I am no more racist than you are dok. Perhaps I am racist against white people, because I don't like Bush, or Cheney. Perhaps that trump card could be pulled out there as well. Actually, what I don't like is when people are called racist just because they disagree with a person of color. That's reverse racism in my book. I disagree more with the fact that she is simply a person who does what she's told by the Bush administration, and does not have the GUTS of a person like Colin Powell to stand up for America and stand against the president. Now, does it make me racist because I like Colin Powell? Am I a black panther now making fun of the president? Any other stereotypes you'd like to throw my way dok? "I've always found it odd that when people of color succeed as republicans or conservatives, the most base and vicious criticisms are used to attack them" -dok
softaire 16-Sep-06, 21:49	Soul "She learned to hate men early in life, unless they could further her career. She is only worried about old number one, and could care less about Americans or even humanity as a whole." I thought for sure you were talking about Hillary. "I disagree more with the fact that she is simply a person who does what she's told by the Bush administration, and does not have the GUTS of a person like Colin Powell to stand up for America and stand against the president." How do you know that? Sorry Soul, but you sound pretty "sorry" on this one... lots of animosity and no facts.
soulcrates 16-Sep-06, 22:59	You thought for sure that I was talking about Hillary? Now that's some funny stuff! Not as funny as calling my argument "sorry", or "base". See, I don't pick sides with people just because of their political party, race, nationality, religion, or creed. I pick sides with beliefs that seem the most legitimate, and truthful. "I don't think anybody could have predicted that they would try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile," - Condoleeza Rice, May 16, 2002. Then why were war games being held on 9/11, 3000 miles away, practicing taking down terrorist hijacked airliners, which is the excuse for there being no reactionary measures to stop the planes that struck the WTC. How could she expect us not to call her a liar? Not only that but there was also a Mass Casualty exercise held the year before, where a hijacked plane was mocked to have struck the Pentagon, which was one of the building attacked on September 11th. Personally, I don't care what skin color one has. If they blatantly lie to me, they're not an ally of mine. "lots of animosity and no facts."-softaire Here's your facts: www.fromthewilderness.com" target="_blank">-> www.fromthewilderness.com www.informationclearinghouse.info" target="_blank">-> www.informationclearinghouse.info www.911proof.com" target="_blank">-> www.911proof.com How could they be holding war games that targeted hijacked airliners, on the same day that hijacked airliners strike, and then tell us they had no idea that type of attack would happen? I am free to pick out what I see from people that make such statements as being mitigating factors to their decision making. I felt she was a yes woman, and would lie to move up the ladder of success. I also have facts that back up my opinion. So please, I encourage you to call my arguments, "sorry" while providing no factual information of your own to back it up.
deadofknight 17-Sep-06, 00:16	My point hasn't been refuted The comments being made, until I spoke up, were base. Thats an admission anyone should be able to look at and agree on. Re-read the thread and tell me that isn't a logical conclusion based purely on the comments being made.
captaingoodvibes 17-Sep-06, 00:22	Oh all right then, totally logical, though i though my comment about thigh boots, hand cuffs and a whip was pretty sophisticated ;-p
soulcrates 17-Sep-06, 01:56	Sure, I'm glad that dok says he's allowed to call me a racist. Actually it's quite amusing. I guess it entitles me to make assumptions about him. Hmm, weighing in on your comments, I'd say that you're use of the term "base" is elementary. So I'd say that is where your education ended. Your argument is as weak as your fake High School Equivalency. I rest my case. You called me racist, you looked at my profile and saw a great black man. Then you stand with your wrong assessment. You must be a Bush fan.
soulcrates 17-Sep-06, 01:58	Yes, Markallen that was very sophisticated. Bringing up S&M when Ms. Rice is brought up. I think that's a Freudian slip
codyj 17-Sep-06, 08:49	I think I have to say that I'm with soulcrates on this...
kementari 17-Sep-06, 12:38	Deleted by kementari on 17-Sep-06, 12:42.
kementari 17-Sep-06, 12:42	dok <<Re-read the thread and tell me that isn't a logical conclusion based purely on the comments being made.>> Actually, the observation that anyone was making fun of Dr. Rice based on the color of her skin wasn't a logical conclusion at all. It was a baseless assumption. Mockery is a natural response to things beyond your control that frighten you. Extremely intelligent people who are willing to intentionally deceive others frighten me.
soulcrates 17-Sep-06, 13:00	I almost can't believe it. We're on the same page there Kem. Rice is too intelligent to think that what she said was true. The fact that someone with her education could freely lie about our national security frightens me as well. Also, there was absolutely no basis for a racial argument towards me. Sure I made a cheap remark about her, but deservingly. I don't feel I should ever hold back my feelings towards people that are knowingly dishonest.
softaire 17-Sep-06, 16:40	Soul "See, I don't pick sides with people just because of their political party, race, nationality, religion, or creed. I pick sides with beliefs that seem the most legitimate, and truthful. " Sounds good to me... that's one reason I voted for you. I hope we can all do that. I'm not sure why you put that in a response to me, however, as I don't think I accused you of anything like that. Please re-read it... certainly not intended. In that original post, you accused Rice of only doing what she was ordered to do, like a robot or something. I asked "how did you know that? Since you had said something I considered somewhat silly, without any references etc. I called your remarks "sorry". If, somehow you take that to be calling you a racist, or that it implies anything else bad about you, I apologize... not meant to be that way. And, you certainly supplied a reference(s) after my post... which I'll get to soon. However, if you did get the incorrect meaning, I'm thinking you were a little bit too touchy right then. Anyway, I am the sorry one if you took it in the "bad" sense. "Sorry" Softaire
soulcrates 17-Sep-06, 16:52	You only said that my statement was I agree that without proper proof making fun of an elected official sounds pretty sorry, but I forget sometimes that not everyone knows what I know, and that is why I shared those links for you to read, if you are interested in finding out why I said what I did, and feel the way I do. It was dok that called my argument racist. I only put the proof out there to add facts, and rebut your calling my statement "sorry". About the racist part with dok, I figure his silence speaks volumes.
kementari 17-Sep-06, 17:11	It's not so unbelievable, really <<We're on the same page there Kem.>> I'm not out to get you or anything, soulcrates. I just have strongly held opinions that differ from your own strongly held opinions. It doesn't make you evil, and it doesn't make me evil either. Just different. Of course, one of us is probably right, and the other is probably wrong, but you can't be right all the time. *raspberries*
deadofknight 17-Sep-06, 22:18	FYI My comment was not that you were racists, but that your comments about her were deragatory and were based on her appearnace, ie her teeth. It was this type of remark that led me to the term "base." If you feel that anyone had prior to that made any argument against her or her actions/policies etc...please show them to me. I just noticed it was a odd way to take her apart...with her looks...and who would be willing to sleep with her, etc... If thats not "base", then I apologize for the use of the term. I found the arguments made against her after I made my comment to be fair and articulate...but, not until I mentioned it did anyone have a point to made against her except for that she should be able to afford dental insurance...hardly a position of strength. If your assessment is that I am uneducated for pointing out that a "base" discussion was being held about the abilities of the Secretary of State, perhaps a review of those comments preceding my assessment might be "educational": soulcrates: "Perhaps she was ridiculed for her odd look, and gapped front teeth." Leo_London: "soul..I take it you wouldn't then... with Condi...even after a few drinks ? " markallen: "even if thigh boots, hand cuffs and a whip were involved? " soulcrates: "When she smiles, I don't know whether to smile back, or kick a field goal. Just kidding, but seriously don't you think she could afford dental insurance coverage? Perhaps she just enjoys hating people, so this gives them a reason to make fun of her, and her a reason to hate them,..." This is the conversation I felt was base. It included 1)a psychiatric attack based on an early childhood filled with mean remarks from people that found her odd looking (specifically her teeth) 2) A rebuttal with an inference to the question of whether or not soulcrates would have sex with the Dr. 3) followed by a perceived raise of the ante, which included S&M with the Dr. and then 4) a response by soulcrates that basically admits that this is all a joke, but then backhandedly makes the remark that she should be able to afford dental insurance, but that perhaps she used her looks as a reason to get people to make fun of her looks so that she felt justified in hating them back. If this isn't a base attack on the Secratary, again, I stand corrected. Her teeth, her sexually attraction and her ability to use her odd looks as a political technique she uses to give herself a good reason to be hateful just felt "base" to me. Of course, I could be right, now that its here for you to re-read. In which case, making a personal attack against me and my education ought to be re-thought. And as a point of reference, immediately after I made my comment, softaire made the following analysis: "Sorry Soul, but you sound pretty "sorry" on this one... lots of animosity and no facts." And again to repost my original post that immediately followed the aforementioned exchange: <<You know its pretty base too make fun of her appearance as a method of attacking her. I mean...gap toothed, enjoys hating people... You don't even know her. I've always found it odd that when people of color succeed as republicans or conservatives, the most base and vicious criticisms are used to attack them...ie Justice Clarance Thomas. What exactly has she done that would lead you to believe she hates people? I find her very astute, bright, well thought out and exceptionally intelligent...>> I would say that if you found my comment was out of line, based on the comments which came directly before it, I would take a wager that the vast majority of people that totally disagree with Dr. Rice's politics would still agree that your collective comments were in fact "base".
captaingoodvibes 17-Sep-06, 22:27	Deleted by captaingoodvibes on 17-Sep-06, 22:42.
captaingoodvibes 17-Sep-06, 22:37	Deleted by captaingoodvibes on 17-Sep-06, 22:42.
deadofknight 18-Sep-06, 01:03	Mark... did you say something...I thought I heard something and then it was gone.
captaingoodvibes 18-Sep-06, 01:10	DOK.. I did but then re-read the threadand thought better of it, hence the delete. In short i thought you were making mountains out of molehills. I still do regarding all that time, angst and effort on the "base" issue....but did support you rebutting the racist inference
zorroloco 18-Sep-06, 04:35	dok maybe the apocolypse is near...i find that i am in agreement with you. an argument against dr. rice based on her appearence is base and childish. i say attack her for her horrid politics! leave her teeth alone!
soulcrates 18-Sep-06, 12:50	dok, you don't even read my replies nor my links. Perhaps if you did you would know why I said what I said. Also deadofknight :"I've always found it odd that when people of color succeed as republicans or conservatives, the most base and vicious criticisms are used to attack them" How am I supposed to NOT take this as you calling me a racist? You still stand on that? You're being completely foolish, and I know that I'm not alone on this. I have made my point as to why I made fun of Condoleeza Rice, and yet you remain intent on saying she has done nothing except be black, so I'm a racist. Perhaps you are either too dumb to know that I wrote why she was a questionable person or to comprehend it, but I did write it, and if you know someone that can read, have them read it to you. It's on the 2nd page of this thread.
soulcrates 18-Sep-06, 12:52	Jeff, I agree. It was not the best tactics to attack her personal appearance. Also, it was blatantly wrong to lie to the American people, so I don't feel that my crime was anywhere near the criminality of hers, and don't really feel sorry about it whatsoever. I only apologize that you do.
kementari 18-Sep-06, 15:02	soulcrates <<It was not the best tactics to attack her personal appearance. >> No, but it was funny. Get 'er done.
softaire 18-Sep-06, 16:14	It wasn't funny nor was it cool. It may not have been racist but it was in poor taste and obviously was misconstrued as being racist. I suggest that if a white guy had said that everybody would be shouting "racist" from the rafters.
soulcrates 18-Sep-06, 19:33	Ok, here's the deal. Dok has a point about the GOP being full of racists. It's a fact, and can be proven by the amount of non-whites in that republican party as compared to the democrats. Since it is true, he probably assumed that I was a republican and bashing her for her skin color. What is true is that I am not a republican, and I would bash Bush and Cheney before Rice or Gonzalez any day of the week. Since her name came up, I felt obligated to say my opinion on the subject. If someone wants to talk about Bush there is a new thread in this forum. It's not like she deserves to be trusted, or liked for the obvious lies she has said about 9/11.
bobbynox 18-Sep-06, 20:22	Sec. Rice will probably be considered the greatest diplomat of our times. She has a clear vision of the role of developing democratic states in the Middle East. This is a 'long view' of the world. She was quoted recently in the Reader's Digest that the conflict in the Middle East should be likened to the defeat of nazism during WWII. And went on to say that the battle in WWII did not end with the fall of those regimes, but rather with the development of stable democracies in Europe and Japan. This is a woman who is a brilliant diplomat, extremely well-versed in regional, and global politics and can carry the message of freedom for the citizens of the US across all boundaries.
soulcrates 18-Sep-06, 20:32	Have you knowledge of the Crusades? Do you know how they ended? Remember when Afghanistan came out of nowhere to stop the U.S.S.R. from controlling them? Think about history and the stories that it's told us, then think if Ms. Rices' "Long View" is really just a delusion, or if there is real merit behind it. So far in Iraq the insurgency hasn't lessened, and actually shows signs of increasing rapidly. I think claiming victory is early, and quite unintelligent. For being a well versed diplomat, she sure made quite a blunder on saying the U.S. had no intelligence that planes would be used as missles. No, I wouldn't consider it a blunder, as much as a bold faced lie to the American public. Another lie on top of many by this administration.
bobbynox 18-Sep-06, 20:47	The Russian's? What do they have anything to do with the Afghans? That is ancient history. Furthermore, we are bringing freedom to that country, the Russian's were bringing totalitarianism. We have produced the first elections in that country, the Al Qeada destroyed buddist temples. We have opened schools and insured a safety, the nay-sayers have clamored, "it will never work!" The thing to remember is that wars are followed by peace. So, sit back, eventually the fighting will stop, and freedom will reign.
soulcrates 18-Sep-06, 21:00	If I'm not mistaken the ousting of the Soviets from Afghanistan was led by OBL. "The Russian's? What do they have anything to do with the Afghans? That is ancient history" Also it happened while Bush was V.P. of the U.S. That was less than 20 years ago. Ancient history my behind, bobby. That's a cop out if I ever heard one. Ancient history! I've got some "Ancient" Baseball cards I'll sell you!! Sit back the fighting will stop? You have got to be kidding me! Isn't that what the Soviets said 10 years before they finally gave up in Afghanistan? I believe it is, your blind optimism is not well thought out, or even properly planned. There is no plan to capture the person responsible for 9/11. If the Soviets couldn't take Afghanistan alone, how are we supposed to when we're in worse shape in Iraq? Perhaps a little studying would be good for your mind. That way your kids aren't dealing with this situation when they're old enough to be drafted.
soulcrates 18-Sep-06, 21:02	Oh, I thought this was the thread about Bush. Sorry, bobby and I are discussing the turmoil in the mideast in another thread. I saw his reply before mine, and just assumed it was that one. Oops, well now everyone is invited!
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