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saintinsanity 16-Nov-06, 17:39	There must be another system we could use that would give us options, and at the same time allow us to run a fair society with a balanced economy. Anyhow, back to the story. How is capitalism fair, if it shuts out anyone who is not a member of the system? If you build a wall, the mexicans will never have a chance to progress in life. They will be stuck living in the dusty villages, instead of coming to America to partake in American Dream! Of course, everyone knows capitalism transcends national borders, and McDonalds operates successfully in Communist countries as well as Monarchies. Nowadays you can sell almost anything to almost anyone. The internet is nifty like that. But the headquarters are located in the Capitalist mecca, no matter where the tentacles reach. And to tell you the truth, at this point in Capitalism, almost no one can compete with the likes of the huge Capitalist Monsters like McDonalds and Walmart. There is little chance of striking it rich in any business that has been invaded by those people with all the money. They can crush any little competition for fun. www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net" target="_blank">-> www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net In the beginning of the capitalist experiment, it was more fair. Everyone was on equal ground and they all had a chance to strike it big with a good idea. Nowadays, the only ones who can manifest the good ideas are the huge corporations, run by the Royalty of America, nepotism abounds, and there is no way for the average bloke to get to the top. It's all inheritted. The system is crooked. Fairness and opportunity are mostly illusion. Granted, you can still make it if you are a brilliant genius with vision, a good idea, and some start up money. Rail on!
softaire 16-Nov-06, 18:00	Pawn I don't think what you just wrote is correct. First of all, big corporations didn't always exist and were not always big. Microsoft, for example, was started by two individuals who dropped out of college and started writing a computer operating system. They succeeded and propered (and grew the company) because they CREATED something good, that was valuable to people. Any person, or any company, can compete with the large companies (it happens all the time) but it is NOT easy and usually if they compete head-to-head, the small company must really have a better product, service, or price. But competition is what makes it all work. Just like in nature, the strong and the adaptable survive and prosper. Capitalism doesn't shut anybody out of the system, if I understand what you mean. Every one is eligible to create an idea, a product, or a service that provides enough value to somebody else that they would pay for it. Anyone can participate. Mexicans can participate in Capitalism in Mexico the same way they can in the U.S. In fact, because the cost of doing business is lower in Mexico than in the U.S. (labor costs at least) many U.S. corporations have moved their facilities to Mexico (and India and Indonesia and China etc. etc.) and Mexicans are participating in Capitalism in that manner. They are not shut-out of the system. Capitalism has exported many jobs and industries to other countries simply because reducing costs to make a profit is a lot of what Capitalism is all about. The U.S. worker is paying the price (losing jobs to foreigners) as a result of Capitalism.
alexwilson 16-Nov-06, 19:45	softaire The problem with your rosey paradigm is that Mexicans are not paid enough wages to support a capitalistic system in their own country. The products that they manufacture are for American consumption and for the American economy. Mexicans still live on a subsistance level in Mexico and they can not support an Auto Industry, Steel Industry, Software industry...etc. Some day, they will demand higher wages and presto, their jobs will be transferred to Bangladesh or Namibia.
softaire 16-Nov-06, 21:35	alex I'm not sure how you got "rosey" out of my discussion. Mexico participates in Capitalism. They just have not developed it as well as the U.S. and other countries; however, there are huge "Maqilladoras" just south of the border, at most Mexican border cities. Those maquilladoras pay wages and benefits just as all other companies do. Wages and benefits are dependent on supply and demand, just as here. Their problem is that there still is not yet enough demand (for labor) and the supply (of labor) is still high. The reason that labor supply is high and demand is low is that there is almost NO middle class in Mexico. A corrupt government (yes, worse than the U.S.), viscious criminal gangs, lack of education, a strong military presence, and little development of their natural resources have all contributed to an economy where jobs are scarce but laborers are plentiful. The corrupt, rich few at the top have not encouraged a developing middle class because that would threaten their rule. A middle class with money would certainly try to institute economic and democratic reforms. Therefore a huge, poor population has been allowed to stagnate at the poverty level, with little middle class development. Mexico has the natural resources and labor force to develop into an economic powerhouse but the "forces" there have resisted all efforts at any real reform. It has been easier (and safer) for them to keep the population poor and going to the U.S. to send money back into the country. Money sent to Mexico by Mexican Nationals in the U.S. is the leading Revenue producer for Mexico. That is why Capitalism has not florished in Mexico.
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