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saying the pledge... with a twist
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changeling 04-Feb-13, 18:20 |
 To the initial 'problem' as it were: I fail to see how saying the pledge of allegiance in a language the young woman has been learning (at home apparently) since childhood because of her Arabic background can cause such hatred and vitriol in a thread. It is quite probably her second language anyway. As has been mentioned, not one word about the pledge being spoken in Spanish which was done previously. Would the pledge spoken in German be as offensive? There is a quite a large contingent of Americans with German backgrounds I believe (I am not talking post WWII here either!). There is no mention of any 'intent' by this young woman to denigrate America, the pledge, or anything else, except by a certain individual in this thread. It appears that other languages have been used over a period of time at this school to give the pledge of allegiance to the US, not any other country or religion. Arabic is simply just another one. |
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ZL.... ------------------------- Damm…. I am always wrong… can’t I be right just this once…. Pretty please… LOL. ZL: did you know that Arabic speakers who are Christians or Jews both use the word 'Allah' to refer to their respective gods? ------------------------- Did you know that we are not talking about “Arab speakers” getting upset . We are taking about some English speaking parents in Colorado. ZL; "Allah is indeed translated correctly as god, and vice versa." ------------------------ “Outside the Arab world, Allah is associated with Islam, and is used to refer specifically to the Islamic concept of God. The Islamic conception of God is a strict monotheism. It is the same as the Jewish conception of God, but differs from the Trinitarian Christian conception of a single God.” religion.wikia.com ZL: "...anyway, the god of Muslims is the same god as that of the Jews and Christians. different prophet, same god, perceived differently. would you prohibit the Jews from translating god as יהוה as well?" ------------------------ I am not prohibiting anyone from anyone from using any words they choose. I am merely saying that when you are not careful about the words you use you can get people upset. Especially when you are talking about something as important as the pledge of allegiance. |
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bill |
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tat3225 04-Feb-13, 19:50 |
Zorroloco Which you condemn, while praising and protecting the batterers and rapists. You have zero integrity and stand for nothing. You would praise the Hitler youth for being so passionate about their country, while simultaneously condemning jewish hate. You are a Nazi who doesn't hate Jews, yet still identifies oneself as a Nazi because of the other more positive things the party stands for. In the late 1930's, you'd criticize those who "generalize" and speak out about the evil in the Nazi party. You'd then remind us that there are some Nazi's who don't hate Jews, like yourself. In 1960, you'd talk about how horrible the Holocaust was. You'd say that we need to condemn hate and never let something like the Holocaust happen again. It is because of people like YOU, people who stand for nothing, are dishonest and will cash in on the blood of the innocent or crawl on your belly to the guilty, that evil is allowed to prosper and grow. You're doing it right now, everything I just described, by talking about Islamic countries, entire cultures and Muslims in the very same way I just described you would have defended the Nazi's. It is because of people who condemn the robber and robbed to jail, like you, that true evil is allowed to grow. Before, I simply disagreed with you. Now, I have zero respect for you, think you're dangerous, don't trust anything you say and find your will to be as strong as styrofoam. |
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........ And wow again coz posts too short |
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God is great ! Allahu Akbar ! [edit] Islamic extremism usageThe phrase is well known in the west for its ubiquitous use in Islamist protests, Islamic extremism and Islamic terrorism. After 9/11, the FBI released a letter reportedly handwritten by the hijackers and found in three separate locations on September 11, 2001 — at Dulles International Airport, at the Pennsylvania crash site, and in hijacker Mohamed Atta's suitcase. It included a checklist of final reminders for the 9/11 hijackers. An excerpt reads: "When the confrontation begins, strike like champions who do not want to go back to this world. Shout, 'Allahu Akbar,' because this strikes fear in the hearts of the non-believers." Also, in the cockpit voice recorders found at the crash site of Flight 93, the hijackers are heard to be reciting the Takbir repeatedly as the plane plummeted toward the ground and the passengers attempted to retake control of the plane.[5][6][7][8] When in March 2002 Maryam Mohammad Yousif Farhat of Hamas, popularized as "Umm Nidal" (and subsequently elected to the Palestinian Legislative Council),[9] learned that her 17-year-old son had died during a suicide attack in which he killed five teenagers, she celebrated by proclaiming "Allahu Akbar!" and giving out boxes of halva and chocolates.[10][11][12] In 2003, when Imam Samudra became the second Bali bomber from a violent Islamist group to be sentenced to death for his role in the 2002 Bali bombings that killed 202 people, Samudra greeted his sentence with chants of "Allahu Akbar".[13][14][15][16][17] In 2004, in an execution video of Nick Berg being beheaded in Iraq, as one man sawed off Berg's head the other captors shouted: "Allahu Akbar!".[18] And in the 2007 Fort Dix attack plot, a group of radical Islamists who were convicted of plotting an attack on the Fort Dix military base in New Jersey had videotaped themselves shooting weapons and shouting Allahu Akbar.[19][20][21] In 2008, Aafia Siddiqui yelled "Allah Akbar" as she allegedly fired at U.S. interrogators.[22][23][24][25] During the 2009 Fort Hood shooting, witnesses reported that gunman Nidal Malik Hasan shouted "Allahu Akbar" before opening fire, killing 13 people and wounding 30 others.[26] And Times Square bomber Faisal Shahzad smiled and said "Allahu Akbar" after receiving a life sentence in 2010 for his attempted bombing.[27][28] During the incident aboard American Airlines Flight 1561, the person attempting to bash his way into the cockpit was heard shouting "Allahu Akbar".[29] Mohammed Merah recorded himself shouting Allahu Akbar as he killed three French paratroopers in the 2012 Midi-Pyrénées shootings.[2] |
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changeling 04-Feb-13, 22:19 |
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ZL.... ------------------------ Ok, that still does not change the fact the topic concerns English speakers in Colorado and that Arabic speakers elsewhere are irrelevant even if you are correct, which you are not. ZL: <Allah means god. that is all. you can choose to load it down with all kinds of preconceptions…> ----------------------- I didn’t, my source did…here is a further elaboration: “From the point of view of traditional Islamic theology, Allah is the most precious name of God because it is not a descriptive name like the other ninety-nine names of God, but the name of God's own presence.” religion.wikia.com Clearly there is difference between the terms “God” and “Allah.” ZL: <but that does not change the simple fact that when you translate the word god into Arabic, Allah is the only one that comes out. and vice versa.> ----------------------- Here is another explanation: “The Muslims prefer calling the Supreme Creator, Allah, instead of by the English word ‘God’. The Arabic word, ‘Allah’, is pure and unique, unlike the English word ‘God’, which can be played around with.” The same source later states: “However, while speaking to the non-Muslims we may have to use the inappropriate word God, for Allah. Since they don't have knowledge of Islam and sometimes this may create confusion for them.” answers.yahoo.com Obviously you are one of the confused non-Muslims… lol |
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Allah is great ! |
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changeling 04-Feb-13, 22:48 |
"...In this club, we expect members to follow GameKnot rules, treat each other with respect, and argue with rationality, logic, and data. Be prepared to have others challenge your beliefs. Be prepared to defend your ideas...no one gets a free ride! No one will be banned for dissenting political, religious, ideological, social, or personal opinions..." Gameknot rule number 2: "...You may not use any sexually explicit, vulgar, rude, harmful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, obscene, hateful, inflammatory, racially or ethnically offensive language and/or images. No exceptions for abbreviated or misspelled words with clear intended meaning..." I do believe that at least one individual is crossing these lines quite often of late! |
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rmannstaedt 05-Feb-13, 02:54 |
tat Please elaborate - just a tiny bit, at least - on this. If you are able. "You are nothing but a spineless, dangerous, and foolish liar who enables the horrible treatment of women." - What, exactly, made you draw that conclusion? His refusal to lump 1 billion people - and their 1.500 year old culture - into one single statement: "evil" ? "Which you condemn, while praising and protecting the batterers and rapists." - Where did he ever praise and protect rapists? "You have zero integrity and stand for nothing." - Well, he founded this club. And he hasn't banned you from it either, despite the rather (excuse me, please) disgusting vitriol you are spewing on him. So I guess that means he actually does stand for things like "free speech". "You would praise the Hitler youth for being so passionate about their country, while simultaneously condemning jewish hate." - Can you honestly say that you really understand him well enough to say that? "In the late 1930's, you'd criticize those who "generalize" and speak out about the evil in the Nazi party." - There is a significant and vast difference between the absolute condemnation of an entire culture, and the rejection of a relatively narrow political creed. "In 1960, you'd talk about how horrible the Holocaust was. You'd say that we need to condemn hate and never let something like the Holocaust happen again." - And what is wrong with that? The Holocaust was terrible. In what way is it wrong to condemn hate and genocide? "It is because of people like YOU, people who stand for nothing, are dishonest and will cash in on the blood of the innocent or crawl on your belly to the guilty, that evil is allowed to prosper and grow." - Your statement reminds me of the quote from your signature: "There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil." Now, that statement is simply and insidiously wrong. It is like saying: the extremist is right while the moderator is wrong. Basically, what Ayn Rand is saying, is: "the fanatical muslims who kill westerners, and the fanatical americans who kill american doctors and nurses, are both right, but the people who try to stop them are wrong." "You're doing it right now, everything I just described, by talking about Islamic countries, entire cultures and Muslims in the very same way I just described you would have defended the Nazi's." - Actually, you are talking about an entire, ancient culture as if they are the same as a mayfly political creed. Are you at all able to see how insane that is? "It is because of people who condemn the robber and robbed to jail, like you, that true evil is allowed to grow." - Really? How? "Before, I simply disagreed with you. Now, I have zero respect for you, think you're dangerous, don't trust anything you say and find your will to be as strong as styrofoam." - Your prerogative. Enjoy it while you can. If people like you had power, none of us would be allowed to dissent (or didn't you just call zorroloco "dangerous" because of his public statements?) |
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ZL... a clarification on my last post. -------------------- PB: Ok, that still does not change the fact the topic concerns English speakers in Colorado and that Arabic speakers elsewhere are irrelevant even if you are correct, which you are not." Delete "which you are not" and substitute in: "but that probably is irrelevant." You are not factoring in that we don't know if those Arabic speaking Christians also speak English. If they do not then the term "God" may not even be in there lexicon, so of course they would use the term "Allah." On the other hand, the students in Colorado who read the pledge clearly speak both English and Arabic and they also clearly chose their words poorly. I fully stand behind the rest of my arguments which I shall re-post here so you don't inadvertently over-look them: ZL: <Allah means god. that is all. you can choose to load it down with all kinds of preconceptions…> ----------------------- I didn’t, my source did…here is a further elaboration: “From the point of view of traditional Islamic theology, Allah is the most precious name of God because it is not a descriptive name like the other ninety-nine names of God, but the name of God's own presence.” religion.wikia.com Clearly there is difference between the terms “God” and “Allah.” ZL: <but that does not change the simple fact that when you translate the word god into Arabic, Allah is the only one that comes out. and vice versa.> ----------------------- Here is another explanation: “The Muslims prefer calling the Supreme Creator, Allah, instead of by the English word ‘God’. The Arabic word, ‘Allah’, is pure and unique, unlike the English word ‘God’, which can be played around with.” The same source later states: “However, while speaking to the non-Muslims we may have to use the inappropriate word God, for Allah. Since they don't have knowledge of Islam and sometimes this may create confusion for them.” answers.yahoo.com Obviously you are one of the confused non-Muslims… lol |
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tat |
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itchy |
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hennybogan1953 05-Feb-13, 09:02 |
Summary of this thread Tat is not too fond of using a language as a form of anti-American protest who's religion exists to allow men to systematically rape and murder women at will. A host of apologists (including the clapping circus monkey and some Danish guy) are mortified that some "GIRL" dare not adhere to the teachings of socialist muslim loving correctness and attempt to marginalize her. Shamash says something really deep and poetic about some play that I wish someone would translate because I think he supports Tat! Some conservatives like Bill and prog make excellent points but are dismissed by the NAZI's. Ace says something cool. Chaz agrees with the majority. Australians and English come out of the woodwork to pile on Tat while entering on the side of the NAZI's. _______________________________________________________________ Conclusion: Tat wins 31 to 27. |
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and then a. amusing b. funny c. intelligent d. witty and the correct answer is... e. none of the above. it is dumb. which passes for amusing, funny, intelligent, and witty in hennyworld. |
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hennybogan1953 05-Feb-13, 09:16 |
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muslims that being said, i do get defensive about unwarranted attacks on muslims for a simple reason - i have very many students who are muslim (from iraq, iran, yemen, somalia, etc) and many arabic speakers. they tend to be hard working, respectful, and kind. not all. but most. to me, when you attack all muslims or all arabic speakers, you are belittling and demeaning people that i know well, and respect, and work with everyday. they may be faceless to you because you are surrounded by people who look like you, and you have little or no personal experience with arabic speakers or muslims. i do. and i admit to getting defensive when you call all of them misogynists, terrorists, extremists, etc. |
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hennybogan1953 05-Feb-13, 10:36 |
Muslim is evil because a large percentage of their leadership in the middle east preach honor rape and killing women and girls who do not conform to their lunacy. Don't they kill gays over there! Holy cow and you freaking liberals love these people! |
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henny i love my students, regardless of their religion. i love people, based on how they act. not how their political or religious leaders act. by your standards, anyone anywhere in the world who disagrees with obama's policies should hate all americans. in fact, you hate obama's policies so much that, according to your own stated belief system, you should hate all americans! why do you hate americans so much? |
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hennybogan1953 05-Feb-13, 10:59 |
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hennybogan1953 05-Feb-13, 11:08 |
www.fxnetworks.com Check out the pilot online. OMG is it cool! FLeetwood Mac's TUSK for the first 10 minutes then April Wines "Roller" later on. |
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henny <I don't care if they practice Islam in America as long they leave out the rape and killing of girls. I sincerely hope the Arab people would break free from this Sharia nonsense once and for all. I as an American believe everyone has the right to not be battered or raped, including Arab women.> do you feel the same about christian sharia law? i.e. banning gay marriage? |
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tat3225 05-Feb-13, 12:01 |
zorroloco It's very easy for you to defend Islam. Islamic beliefs aren't attacking you, threatening you, scaring you, holding you back, and you have the United States government protecting you. Therefore it's easy for you to trivialize the lives of an ungodly amount of people who do not have the priviledge of being you, or me. People who don't have the priviledge of arguing about first world "problems" like gay marriage, or bans on $1000+ rifles, or govt restrictions on how much soda can be purchased from a soda fountain. I might disagree with you or other people on such issues. But this, Islam, human rights violations, spreading problems and entire populations being held hostage by their governments.......These are REAL problems. How many people have to die, be terrorized, be lied to, be raped, be sterilized by force, fear their government, for you to start holding Islam accountable? Is mass genocide what you require? Institutionalized and mass rape, along with genocide in smaller numbers and a host of other things isn't enough for you. You appear to require cattle cars and gas chambers before you might actually stand behind something. When the United States was beginning to rebuild Germany and create order following WWII, they didn't give the Nazi's "freedom of thought" or "freedom of religion" and they didn't "tolerate" the "different" views held by the Nazi's. The U.S. didn't allow any Nazi press, and squashed the entire belief set. The "positive" aspects of Nazism did not in any way compensate for the negative. No one cared if Nazi's were "nice" and were against the jewish genocide. No one cared when some nazi's claimed ignorance. The Nuremberg Trials held some Nazi's accountable for war crimes but ALL Nazi's were held "responsible" for the actions of their party. Guilt by association. It's one thing to disagree about political issues in the United States. It's quite another for you to self-righteously defend oppressive leadership, batterers, rapists and diminsh the lives of so many, all under the veil of "religious tolerance". So, no, I won't take a chill pill and stand by what I've said 100%. This is a real issue and is perhaps the most important issue facing the United States and the rest of the world. |
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tat |
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aand where |
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rmannstaedt 05-Feb-13, 13:28 |
tat 04-Feb-13, 11:50 ----------------- 2. "I was not the one who brought up Islam..." - Yes you did. Your 02-Feb-13, 11:40 post (quote): "Cut the crap. In what countries do the people speak arabic? Islamic countries." 3. "Stop talking about Christianity..." - It is highly debatable whether the amount of Islamic texts dwarfs Christian texts. The Church has just outlawed most of them. You should read about the "First Council of Nicea" some time. - Thank you for agreeing that "One faith is not necessarily better or worse, but they are in fact different in subtle yet meaningful ways." However, that directly invalidates your point that "It is totally irrelevant to the comparing and contrasting of cultures today and the role of Islam in these cultures." 4. "You totally insisted that some things flat out don't happen." - Really? When? 5. "What you have said about not drawing conclusions is analogous to watching a baby get beaten while simultaneously insisting that we don't know if the person who is administering the beating is guilty..." - Your sources of information about Islam are tainted by anti-Islamic propaganda. How can you ever hope to draw any kind of fair conclusion, when you (in your own words) believe that "Absolutely nothing nice or potentially good that might exist in these cultures is acceptable or even remotely tolerable to me..." - "Brainwashed" is when you believe, absolutely and totally, what someone else tells you to believe. Thank you for using that word; I think it is a fair description of your state of mind. 6. "The corruption you have mentioned, lobbying, is done within certain parameters." - It is still corruption. 7. "It's good that you mentioned accidental death in the United States". - Nope, I didn't. I mentioned "American children being shot". Nothing accidental at all about what happened in Newtown - and all those other, all too many, school shootings. - Not to mention, rabid Americans who shoot and bomb nurses and doctors working at legal abortion clinics. 05-Feb-13, 02:54 ----------------- <speaking about zorroloco> "You are nothing but a spineless, dangerous, and foolish liar who enables the horrible treatment of women." - What, exactly, made you draw that conclusion? His refusal to lump 1 billion people - and their 1.500 year old culture - into one single statement: "evil" ? "Which you condemn, while praising and protecting the batterers and rapists." - Where did he ever praise and protect rapists? "You have zero integrity and stand for nothing." - Well, he founded this club. And he hasn't banned you from it either, despite the rather (excuse me, please) disgusting vitriol you are spewing on him. So I guess that means he actually does stand for things like "free speech". "You would praise the Hitler youth for being so passionate about their country, while simultaneously condemning jewish hate." - Can you honestly say that you really understand him well enough to say that? "In the late 1930's, you'd criticize those who "generalize" and speak out about the evil in the Nazi party." - There is a significant and vast difference between the absolute condemnation of an entire culture, and the rejection of a relatively narrow political creed. "In 1960, you'd talk about how horrible the Holocaust was. You'd say that we need to condemn hate and never let something like the Holocaust happen again." - And what is wrong with that? The Holocaust was terrible. In what way is it wrong to condemn hate and genocide? "It is because of people like YOU, people who stand for nothing, are dishonest and will cash in on the blood of the innocent or crawl on your belly to the guilty, that evil is allowed to prosper and grow." - Your statement reminds me of the quote from your signature: "There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil." Now, that statement is simply and insidiously wrong. It is like saying: the extremist is right while the moderator is wrong. Basically, what Ayn Rand is saying, is: "the fanatical muslims who kill westerners, and the fanatical americans who kill american doctors and nurses, are both right, but the people who try to stop them are wrong." "You're doing it right now, everything I just described, by talking about Islamic countries, entire cultures and Muslims in the very same way I just described you would have defended the Nazi's." - Actually, you are talking about an entire, ancient culture as if they are the same as a mayfly political creed. Are you at all able to see how insane that is? "It is because of people who condemn the robber and robbed to jail, like you, that true evil is allowed to grow." - Really? How? "Before, I simply disagreed with you. Now, I have zero respect for you, think you're dangerous, don't trust anything you say and find your will to be as strong as styrofoam." - Your prerogative. Enjoy it while you can. If people like you had power, none of us would be allowed to dissent (or didn't you just call zorroloco "dangerous" because of his public statements?) |
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rmannstaedt 05-Feb-13, 14:00 |
guilt by association In that case ... tell me again, how can you avoid "guilt by association" for the genocide that YOUR people enacted on the native Americans, when your forefathers settled in their lands, drove them out, murdered, starved and raped them? And - before you start in on the "oh, that was many, many years ago!", tell me again: have they received full and appropriate restitution and recompense for that horror? Are they resettled in those native lands that you forced them out of? Or do you still look down on them as a kind of "second class" citizens even now, forced to live in reservations on those poor and limited areas that you grudgingly allowed them to flee to? |
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rmann... |
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