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From	Message
soulcrates 06-Dec-06, 17:31	I'm not done Jdh. "no wonder cowardly Muslims, who think like you, are blowing up women and children." Please show me where I've ever said that I was a muslim. Ignorant people just seem to assume things about others, and label them. You're one of them.
soulcrates 06-Dec-06, 17:34	What if I said, "no wonder cowardly christians, who think like you (jdh), are committing acts of Genocide on women and children."?
soulcrates 06-Dec-06, 17:35	Slobodan Milosovic, Adolf Hitler, Mobutu, etc.
soulcrates 06-Dec-06, 17:36	How do YOU feel now that the tables are turned?
proginoskes 06-Dec-06, 17:45	jeff you and me are cool - I know that in spite of our worst we do not mean to harm the other
zorroloco 06-Dec-06, 17:47	jeez lighten up....
soulcrates 06-Dec-06, 17:47	I appreciate the ignorant ignoring. It's ironic, but really just based on definition.
soulcrates 06-Dec-06, 17:49	Ignorance 2) is the choice to not act or behave in accordance with regard to certain information in order to suit ones own needs/beliefs."I know better but I choose to ignore that and do/say/act in a way that behooves me."
soulcrates 06-Dec-06, 17:53	There are many ways to skin a cat. Just as there are many ways to be with God. Ghandi wasn't a christian, as far as I know, but his actions saved millions of lives, so if God doesn't allow him into heaven, then it's full of the wrong people, and I'm sure God wouldn't do that. Telling people who aren't a member of your community, or sect of Christianity, that you alone will go to heaven, is telling them they're going to burn in hell. People like that are ignorant.
proginoskes 06-Dec-06, 18:02	soul Once again you prove yourself to be childlike in mind. What is even more sad is that you have no idea you've not established a single point you've tried to make here. I've owned you with every exchange, but this doesn't surprise me; this is the way it is with everyone you debate with here - ask around if you like. You are blind to your own crap. The fact that other people have misused faith is not an indictment of faith but of the human being. You've established nothing - ask around if you like. As for how do I feel? Vindicated. And it may surprise you, but I have not the anger you seem so hopelessly unable to control here. My position might make people angry, but that is not my business. I am not responsible for your feelings anymore than you are responsible for mine. You will realize this someday, if you ever grow up child. My only mistake here was assuming you were muslim - looks like on that point I was wrong. Now I am done with you.
soulcrates 06-Dec-06, 18:06	I've owned you with every exchange Jdh, if you mean you've backed every one of your OPINIONS with "because I'm 100% correct", then ya, you've "owned" me. Typical christian belief that you can OWN another human. Ok, Christopher Columbus, you're right again.
zorroloco 06-Dec-06, 18:08	jd your position does not make me angry. i am happy you are happy. i wish you could be happy without, what i call, the crutch of religion. you wish i could be happy in the light of sweet baby jesus. but...if we are both happy, and not hurting others because of our beliefs (although, i have to admit that...once in a great while....i like to have a bit of....oh you know....ok...ok...i'll say it christian baby blood...i just can't help myself! : ) we are cool...thats what makes america great! now...if we could just stop the weasels from destroying it!
soulcrates 06-Dec-06, 18:11	Jd, I'm glad you're ignoring the only chance you'll get to learn something about Islam. It'll be the reason you'll have to one day fight a war with them, and lose. You cannot understand any other idea other than your own brainwashed bible thumping ways. This thread should have been called Calling "Bible" Thumpers, because your doing exactly that. I don't mind when people preach from the bible. I like "teach a man to fish feed him for a lifetime, give a man a fish feed him for a day." Amongst other teachings, but one thing that Jesus didn't teach is how to be superior to your fellow humans, and tell them about it like you do. He also didn't say that everyone who didn't follow him was going to hell, because like you said, "I'm 100% correct." He prayed for their forgiveness, and you've forgotten all about it with your hate speech that others will burn in hell, by saying only Christians will go to Heaven. Where's the only other place to go jdh? There is no 3rd option. Ignore away, and fulfill your destiny of ignorance.
proginoskes 06-Dec-06, 18:16	jeff yes the weasels . . . they must be stopped
zorroloco 06-Dec-06, 18:30	soul you have no idea what you are talking about, do you?
soulcrates 06-Dec-06, 20:08	Yes Jeff. I know that being told you're not going to heaven is no fun for anyone. I would understand it if I were an evil person, but I'm not. I help more people than I harm, and only retaliate where I am retaliated against. If I only give back equally as to what I am given, then anyone who says I'm going to burn in hell, is probably going to burn in hell. I've already seen my step-uncle take his own life after saying this exact same crap to me, so I'm obviously on the right track. I thought that pointing out fellow Christians that weren't going to heaven, would help a person realize that just being a christian obviously doesn't absolve people from sin. If that person disagrees, I will pray for their souls, but am expecting them not to make it into heaven with me and my own.
soulcrates 06-Dec-06, 20:09	Make that I only retaliate where I'm taliated against? Would I say acted negatively against? Either way, I think it's clear that I am civil with those who are civil.
proginoskes 06-Dec-06, 20:17	jaymar I almost missed your post! I was dealing with a silly, petulent child. I know you've been through that before. Yes. I would agree that we have both found our equalibrium. See you . . . ? When I see you . . .
soulcrates 06-Dec-06, 20:32	The only childish thing I've seen lately is a full grown man saying he's 100% right that he's going to heaven. That's ridiculous, since only God knows who is serving good, and who is only saying they are serving good.
bobbynox 06-Dec-06, 21:16	Deleted by bobbynox on 23-Jan-07, 09:57.
proginoskes 06-Dec-06, 21:35	bobby I agree the discussion has devolved, but disagree that Christianity has nothing to do with reality. It has everything to do with reality - although I can appreciate that not everyone can see this. You are not a pawn and niether am I. You are in charge of your destiny. And I am not intereted in fighting to the death to defend my religion. I have stood here and fielded one attack after another without once ever needing to resort to making threats. I make a defense of my faith and position with words. Violence is not the answer and never is. Christianity is not a violent faith. There are people who have used religion as an excuse to violence, but that is a human trait. Let us pretend for a second that you can completely get rid of religion, now what will the humans use to justify their actions? Or do you think that humans will magically stop being humas and the killing will stop with the end of religion. Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot didn't need a God to justify their attrocities. So you see, the attrocities of man are an indictment of the huma condition, not an indictment of religion. your friend, Josh
bobbynox 06-Dec-06, 22:02	Deleted by bobbynox on 23-Jan-07, 09:57.
proginoskes 06-Dec-06, 22:32	if religion free world is a panacea what are your excuses for Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Ho Chi Min, and Pol Pot? religion is not the problem - humans are the problem - man is completly impotent to implement paradise
soulcrates 06-Dec-06, 22:36	Not just humans jd, but the Devil himself. It is free will that is the problem. It happened to other creatures before us, as described in the Bible.
saintinsanity 07-Dec-06, 00:23	Phew! It took me forever to catch up on this thread. I was getting pretty upset for a while, too. I thought for sure someone was going to quit the club. I'm glad we are all still here. I agree with jdh71, that violence stems from humans, not from religion. There has always been violence. Cain killed Abel, what religion were they? As far as this 100% certainty nonsense goes...everyone take a deep breath. jdh71 can be as 100% certain as he wants to be. He can believe with all certainty that non-christians will not be admitted into Heaven, on account of turning away from Christ. He may believe in fire and brimstone as well, but I'm not so certain about that. soulcrates(by the way, for some reason I thought you followed islam as well...could have swore you said so), you should not allow another person's certainty to make you feel threatened. Just because he is certain, does not necessarily mean that you are going to hell. And even if he thinks you are, that isn't hate speech, that is just him with his beliefs. Relax, man. You appear to have some fear that he is correct. It's the only explanation I can come up with. Nevertheless, the conflict rages within yourself and you should not be angry with jdh71, the pope, or anyone else who has a firm unshakeable belief(although I don't know how strong the new pope's beliefs are), even if it means you will suffer for all eternity if they are correct. If they are wrong, you have nothing to worry about. If they are right, well, at least they made the effort to try tell you. You should be thanking jd for his concern for all of our well being. You should not be making such impulsive and venomous statements about anyone, and I have to say this isn't the first time it's happened. Just because you have a personally unresolved issue with christianity is no excuse. jeff, you said this: <faith is not based on anything but the desire for something to be.> I believe Leo was addressing this point when he asked his question about the dark night of the soul. I too wished to ask you, have you no desire for something *more* to be? Regarding religion as a theory: Sounds good to me. It must be theory, if there are so many different ones that people believe. I am still waiting for the religion which is Law (and I don't mean compulsory), but I don't think it will happen in my time. Whatever happened to thumper, anyhow? Bobby, do you really believe that a thorough understanding of a religious doctrine would leave people thirsty for blood? Or do you simply mean to say that evil men will use religion to control the foolish masses? If it is the latter, then, again I must say it has nothing to do with religion so much as evil men. I do not believe that self-defense will lead to an end of violence. As Jesus said, turn the other cheek. Violence begets violence. Our only hope is enlightenment, in ourselves and in others.
saintinsanity 07-Dec-06, 00:31	Also I am 100% certain that I am correct, and it feels delightful. I think I'll do a little dance all alone in my room.
soulcrates 07-Dec-06, 00:51	Pawn, turn the other cheek? I've heard that before, and actually used it once. I got hit three times in the jaw for turning my cheek twice. The gentlemen grew afraid that I hadn't hit the ground, and ran away. The next night he stole his girlfriend's car, and got into a hit and run accident and went to jail for a year. It worked amazingly, but my jaw clicked, and hurt for a while. Now I know better. Sometimes you need to fight back.
soulcrates 07-Dec-06, 00:53	If you think my attacks were venemous, apparently you didn't know that they were all the same attacks used on me, just reversed. It's how I roll, pawntificator. If it's okay for someone to call me a dog, it must be okay for me to call them a dog, or someone they know. It's the only way they can see how malicious their own words are.
jaymar 07-Dec-06, 01:21	pawn.. ..I think you are missing the point re this 100% business. There is no problem with people having dreams, ambitions, hopes or aspirations. In other words a desire "for something more to be". I would be very surprised if there was anyone in this thread who didn't keep an open mind on that subject. Unfortunately, as we have seen in some of the exchanges here, the desire for something more to be has gone way beyond that. jdh is certain that there is something. soul is certain too but his something is different to jdhs. In this world there are many people who are certain that there is something. So certain for instance that paradise and 24 virgins are waiting for them that they blow themselves up.(By the way religion is law in some of those places, Sharia law its called and its serious). My point all along is that this certainty is unhealthy, not to say unscientific. Religion as theory has become religion as truth, just define your own truth. Defining that truth, being dogmatic about it and closing your mind to other peoples truths or possibilities is, I believe, wrong. When you have "a dark night of the soul" find whatever you need to cling on to. But remember and be aware of what you are doing. Understand your motives. Understand yourself and maybe it won't be necessary to try and understand God. Maybe God wont seem so necessary at all.
zorroloco 07-Dec-06, 04:13	pawn i may hope for something more than this life...sure, i would not complain about eternal paradise! i also wish for a lamborghini, peace on earth, and super powers. but i am not foolish enough to make up a myth so as to make these desires seem real! really...desire is a poor excuse to believe in something. that is what children do.
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