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From	Message
murraymint1 25-Sep-09, 14:05	Revolver, Sgt. Pep's v. The Doors, Strange Days Even though that I am British, give me the Doors any day. It was the Doors and others (e.g. After Bathing at Baxters) who changed the face of 'Pop'music, not the Beatles. Discuss!
chessnovice 25-Sep-09, 14:14	They both had heavy influence. Not fair to make anyone pick one. But I do agree with a personal preference of The Doors. But that's probably because I feel saturated with Beatles music and fanatics.
proginoskes 25-Sep-09, 16:19	I don't know . . . maybe you have a point but I have a hard time getting past the fact that the Door's music sucks large mammal penis and the Beatles music does not.
murraymint1 25-Sep-09, 16:25	The Beatles talked about sucking penises way before Sgt. Pep's and Revolver. 'Please, Please me, like I please you....'
chessnovice 25-Sep-09, 16:31	jdh What's it like to have poor taste in music? You appear to be a reliable source. :]
changeling 25-Sep-09, 16:58	.... The Doors changed the face of 'pop' music! One cannot compare influences between the two groups: The innovations in popular music introduced by the Beatles countless times in regard to musicianship, equipment, style, recording techniques, you name it, were all followed and copied sometimes shamelessly by hundreds and thousands of pop groups around the world, quite possibly the Doors as well. So, what did the Doors actually do in regard to innovative techniques to change the face of pop music? The only thing I can remember is Morrison dying and the band becoming more popular as a result - nice acceptable band before he died - brilliant icons after he died!
murraymint1 25-Sep-09, 17:44	In answer to your question, Changeling, The Doors did not copy The Beatles and they came up with something far more innovative before Jim died. I suggest you listen to, and digest, The Doors and Strange Days. The Beatles were incapable of such innovation, execept, perhaps, for George. But, George was always voted out. The Doors win by a mile.
changeling 25-Sep-09, 18:24	murray I see you are another one who doesn't actually read the posts: I did not say the Doors copied the Beatles. However, many many bands did. A lot of the Beatles innovative techniques in regard to recording (length of singles for one) were copied, incorporated, used by others after. The Beatles changed the face of 'pop' music in there day, as did a few artists before them; Frank Sinatra, Bing Crosby (for popular music). Many others were innovative with various forms of music. So, what did the Doors actually do that have stood the test of time and been used by so many other artists around the world? Much of the equipment and techniques for modern pop were used first by the Beatles. I suppose George Martin was the real key if one digs deep enough. Yes the Beatles (or Lennon & McCartney) were influenced by others as were the Doors I would think. Arguing one album over another is pretty pointless.
murraymint1 25-Sep-09, 19:02	I meant George Harrison, not George Martin! When the Doors came up with The Doors and even Strange Days, Sgt. Peppers had not been heard of. The Doors invented a massive departure from Pop music equal to the Beatles, at about the same time. It was not only The Beatles and Sgt. Peps. Many others were thinking along the same lines. Viz: The Doors, Strange Days, After Bathing at Baxters. These LP's came out at about the same time as Sgt. Peps. Logically, the LP's were invented way before Sgt. Peps, but they were too afraid to fight the Record Labels - the record labels would have said 'get lost, you weirdo's - we want 2 minute hits'. The Beatles were not the only ones thinking 'Pop Music can actually be Music'. Others were thinking along the same lines, for example The Doors and Jefferson Airplane - probably others as well.
zorroloco 25-Sep-09, 19:31	sillly silly the doors were a great band. the beatles too. and the stones, cream, jefferson airplane, santana, the dead, and many others too numerous to mention. all creative artists influence the face of music, some more than others - motown artists such as stevie wonder, the jackson 5, marvin gaye, aretha, early rock icons like buddy holly and little richard and chubby checker and elvis, psych rockers like the dead, hendrix and santana, reggae artists like bob marley and peter tosh, jazz icons like coltrane and buddy guy, blues masters albert king, robert johnson, muddy waters, folk rockers like dylan, van morrison and joni mitchell and artists/groups like u2, rem, the cure, sex pistols, lou reed, tom waits, bela fleck, eric clapton, michael jackson and all left indelible marks on popular music. however, the beatles were creative in a way that changed the face of music as we know it. they were not the only ones, but it is hard to argue that they have a unique place in the evolution of popular music.
chessnovice 25-Sep-09, 19:47	Funny how pitting two bands with near-universal praise against one another can cause fans to minimize the other band's achievements.
tugger 25-Sep-09, 19:48	The Doors are a great band. But their best doesn't compare to the Beatles' best. The Beatles were making some truly incredible music, stuff like Helter Skelter, Tomorrow Never Knows, Yer Blues... I could go on and on. But I almost prefer to hear the Doors on the radio, because I too feel saturated by the Beatles. But even the Beatles aren't the greatest in my opinion. No-one can touch Radiohead.
qiwi 25-Sep-09, 20:04	Murray... I think there is no real debate when it comes to the unique role the Beatles played, however, of all the American bands of that era the Doors certainly stand out, to me anyway.... I dont often disagree with Changeling but in this case I do believe the Doors music has stood the test of time better than most.... If you listen to a selection of groups from that period, the Doors sound to me is very contemporary.... the way the vocals were right to foreground was actually very unusual for that time... Most bands of the mid sixties tended to have the vocals well back in the mix amongst the guitars ecetera.....possibly a hangover from the early sixties instrumental groups like the Shadows and the Ventures.... but hey, why compare them to the Beatles anyway whose music has definitely stood the test of time.
murraymint1 25-Sep-09, 20:20	qiwi, I agree. But, put a gun to my head and being made to choose, Strange Days and The Doors win. They are imaginatively and musically superior. Paul's bass is good but John and George were not really fantastic guitarists in the league of Hendrix / Clapton / KRIEGER! But, how many of today's populace have even heard of the Doors?
qiwi 25-Sep-09, 20:26	Mmmmm.... Not sure I agree with your assessment of Robbie Krieger's guitar playing..... To be honest there weren't many of the U.S. west coast bands that had guitarists that really impressed me tremendously at the time...... The guitar players that really stood out for me at that time were the likes of Jeff Beck, Clapton, Peter Green, Jimmy Page and of course Hendrix....
murraymint1 25-Sep-09, 20:30	Agreed. But Harrison (maybe Lennon) v. Krieger? No comparison. Krieger knew his music and played innovative guitar. The Beatles were never Guitar freaks!! The Beatles were TOO technical at the basic level. Let's face it. The lead on While My Guitar Gently Weeps was Clapton, not George.
changeling 26-Sep-09, 04:30	murray You are now comparing the bands (Beatles v Doors). That was not your original question/argument! So given that both bands (and as Jeff says many many others, I already listed Crosby & Sinatra both 'popular' music makers of their day), which one of the two bands you are arguing about started first with the modern format of 'pop' music? I never said the Beatles were better, but they were THE innovators long before most sixties bands who followed in their wake including the Doors. Musically, that is a matter of opinion. Its like arguing who is the best composer of all time, it depends on the criteria used. Going on ctual sales and recordings of any composer Paul McCartney wins hands down! It doesn't however make him the better than Beethoven for instance. And by the way, the Beatles did actually break the mold with the two minute records. There is not much doubt that the Beatles influenced almost all the sixties bands in one way or another, just as Carl Perkins & co influenced the Beatles.
tugger 26-Sep-09, 07:21	The guitar work on some of the later blues stuff the Beatles did was fantastic. But when it comes to guitar, nobody can compare to Hendrix. That guy was just unbelievable. Never rated Clapton myself. My Mother is a massive fan of his, but I just find him dull. Saw him live in 1996 and was bored out of my brain, saw Alanis Morissette the same day and she was far, far better. Some of the early stuff was ok, like the Yardbirds, and Cream. But While My Guitar Gently Weeps is far from the best guitar work on a Beatles tune in my opinion. But if we're talking about great guitarists, Dave Gilmour is a genius, and Jonny Greenwood is far and away the best guitarist since Gilmour. Have a listen to Jonny... go on... www.youtube.com #1 greatest tune of all time.
changeling 26-Sep-09, 07:58	.... Les Paul at 90 was better than that guy could ever be: 'youtube' him playing 'How high the moon' (instrumental versions, any one of them, not with Mary Ford). Now there was a genuine innovator, and still doing into his eighties  .
zorroloco 26-Sep-09, 08:10	tugs i want to remain friends, so i am going to pretend you did not just dis clapton's guitar playing ability. listen to his jams on 'why does love got to be so sad' on derek and the dominoes album live at the fillmore east some time.
zorroloco 26-Sep-09, 08:15	and santana one of the top 5 rock gutarists of all time. maybe we could take this thread there. who are you top 5 rock guitarist? i say: hendrix, clapton, page, santana, and oh my...hard to pick that 5th one maybe zappa, eddie van halen, jeff beck, or stevie ray vaughn.
proginoskes 26-Sep-09, 08:36	chess No, no, no, my friend my musical tastes are impeccable, and this is why I can say the Beatles good, the Doors suck
chessnovice 26-Sep-09, 18:25	jdh You either have poor taste in music or are being intellectually dishonest. Take your pick. :]
proginoskes 26-Sep-09, 20:13	I have amazing taste in music and I think the Doors suck :-/
daley 26-Sep-09, 20:44	... i consider myself an equal opportunity/no holds barred listener .... yes!! www.dailymotion.com i love that guy!!!!!
chessnovice 26-Sep-09, 22:26	jdh I may have to diagnose you with Delusional Disorder. ;o
mrvroom 27-Sep-09, 11:50	I think the Doors were made by Jim Morrisons death. I quite like some of the Doors stuff but its never so good as when you are stoned. The Beatles though I appreciate more and more.
mrvroom 27-Sep-09, 11:58	and Radiohead are sh**.
chessnovice 27-Sep-09, 12:02	mrvroom R.I.P., your credibility on music discussion. :[
mrvroom 27-Sep-09, 12:05	I beg to differ unless a good dirge is your thing. Sounds like one of my kids whinging.
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