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From	Message
cyna 15-Aug-09, 14:07	Circles on Canal Street Yes, the interesting things one reads. It's more likely that Paul was drawing diagrams of chess problems with his walking stick, or even playing chess games with invisible opponents along the Canal Street promenade. It's been written that he would solve chess problems of his friends, visitors, and family members (uncles, father, etc.), using the dining table's crystal, silver, china, and napkin rings) while supping. I suppose we'll never really know what he was actually thinking or doing while strolling the streets of New Orleans with his cane and/or sword, unless someone discovers he kept a diary. Wouldn't that be a miraculous find!! BTW, that was very thoughtful of you to give up your chance at posting the next trivia challenge question in order to allow someone else in the club a chance to jump in. -Cyna
ironbutterfly 15-Aug-09, 18:24	PM trivia I can't compete with you two, but I'm sure learning a lot about PM - thanks to you both!
johnclark 16-Aug-09, 00:05	PM trivia Ironbutterfly: Thanks for looking at the thread. I think you know a few things about PM's chess play that could challenge us  ) Here is an easy one. With the intercessions of Ernest Morphy, Charles Maurian, Judge Meek and most of the New Orleans Chess Club, PM's family acquiesced to his wish to attend the Birmingham Chess Conference in Birmingham, England, 1858. PM did not participate in the Birmingham's Chess Conference and later in a letter to Lord Lyttelton he revealed that he went to England for the purpose of playing a highly regarded English player. Who was this player?
ironbutterfly 16-Aug-09, 04:45	Morphy's trip to England PM played several highly regarded players during his time in England in 1858, including: Lowenthal, H Bird, and Boden. He was unable to arrange a match, however, with the opponent he deemed "a worthy adversary" - Harold Staunton, who was generally acknowledged as the strongest player in the world in the 1840s and early 1850s.
johnclark 16-Aug-09, 21:05	Harold Staunton is correct Congrats! -cyna 1pts -jc 2pts -ironbutterfly 1 pt ironbutterfly asks the next question. But first, let me share these tidbits on Morphy-Staunton that I found interesting. -PM arrived in Birmingham for the Chess Conference on June 21, 1858, after a 12 day voyage. Shortly after PM set sail for England, Charles Stanley received a letter from his friend, Harold Staunton, who "proposed to play a match, Staunton vs. Morphy, for 500 pounds a side by ELECTRIC TELEGRAPH!" Had Morphy elected not to attend the Birmingham Chess Conference, or left for Birmingham later (as the conference, unbeknown to PM, had been postponed from June 22 to August 24), the two very well might have played each other. -Telegraph chess matches were common at the time with telegraph companies offering free service between neighboring cities. The first Telegraph match was in 1844 between Baltimore and Washington. -In 1897, a Parliamentary Cable Chess Match took place between the British House of Commons and the US House of Representatives which ended in a draw. (We can only guess at the amount of actual business that got done during that match  )) And the question is now from ironbutterfly.
ironbutterfly 17-Aug-09, 06:48	Morphy read and studied widely According to one great chess player, Morphy read and studied chess widely and deeply, including "Philidor's 'L'analyse,' the Parisian magazine 'La Regence,' Staunton's 'Chess Player's Chronicle,' and possibly also Anderssen's 'Schachzeitung' (at least, he knew all of Anderssen's published games). He studied Bilguer's 400-page 'Handbuch' - which consisted partly of opening analyses in tabular form, and also Staunton's 'Chess Player's Handbook'." Heavy-duty study worthy of any player! This quote is from what great chess player, and where is it found?
johnclark 18-Aug-09, 15:13	Point of clarification The quote you are putting up for identification is, "Philidor's 'L'analyse,' the Parisian magazine 'La Regence,' Staunton's 'Chess Player's Chronicle,' and possibly also Anderssen's 'Schachzeitung' (at least, he knew all of Anderssen's published games). He studied Bilguer's 400-page 'Handbuch' - which consisted partly of opening analyses in tabular form, and also Staunton's 'Chess Player's Handbook'." Is this correct?
ironbutterfly 18-Aug-09, 15:27	quote Yes, that's it.
cyna 19-Aug-09, 12:51	RE: Morphy read and studied widely Is the answer found in Garry Kasparov's book, "On My Great Predecessors", vol. 1, pg. 32; a quote made by Bobby Fischer?
ironbutterfly 19-Aug-09, 12:55	could be yes, cyn! You've certainly got the substance right, about the quote being in Kasparov's v. I, p. 32, cyn. I thought the quote was by K himself, but don't have the volume here right now, so if you're right about the source being Fischer, the win's for you!
cyna 19-Aug-09, 13:01	The Correct Answer? I found the source by searching through Google. I may be wrong, but it appears to have been a quote made by Bobby Fischer (please see my source): 74.125.155.132 Well, did I win?
johnclark 19-Aug-09, 16:22	The Correct Answer? ...could be yes, cyn I had narrowed it down to either Gary K or Bobby F. I had no idea as to the text it is found in though. My thinking was that most people close to PM's time talked of him in terms of an innovator, genius, instinctive, artistic, knowledgeable, etc. Describing PM as one who studied had to be far after PM's time. GK and BF are the only modern chess greats I know of who have expressed more than passing accolades. I think we have to keep in mind also the power of the myth. The early accounts of PM have him owning only 3 chess texts (one which he criticized as suffering from a lack ingenuity and superficial reasoning) prior to his trip to England in 1858. I agree with GK in that PM was a voracious reader and it only stands to reason that he didn't discover every chess wheel on his own. I looked at the source cyna gave and didn't see the quote as being attributted to BF. So the question to ironbutterfly is, "Did she answer the question satisfactorly?" If so she gets a point and gives the next question; if not, ironbutterfly posts another question.
ironbutterfly 19-Aug-09, 19:50	a close call....... Since the source is correct, which was half the question, and cyn mentions Kasparov (I think it's his quote) as well as Fischer, I'd say the question is answered satisfactorily [if not perfectly  ], and she gets the point and gives the next question.
cyna 20-Aug-09, 11:58	RE: A close call... Thanks you guys; I took another look, and I agree that it was really Kasparov's quote, not Fischer's. (Bobby's quote was actually added at the end of that last sentence.) So, to be fair, I'll take half a point, and ask the next question (I'll make it short). The current trivia challenge scores are: johnclark=2 pts cyna=1.5 pts ironbutterfly=1 pt
cyna 20-Aug-09, 12:00	Next Paul Morphy Trivia Challenge Question Question: To whom did Paul Morphy give his copy of 'Staunton's 'Chess Player's Handbook'?
cyna 21-Aug-09, 15:20	RE: Next Paul Morphy Trivia Challenge Question Question: To whom did Paul Morphy give his copy of 'Staunton's 'Chess Player's Handbook'? Hint: It's been more than 24 hours since the question was asked, and no one's responded to the trivia challenge posted above. Here's a hint, in the hopes that someone will come up with the correct answer: C.A. Buck mentions this in his book, "Paul Morphy: His Later Life" -cyna
ironbutterfly 21-Aug-09, 16:09	a guess? Well, with the help of your clue, I'm going to guess it was his friend James McConnal, the elder?
cyna 21-Aug-09, 16:23	You are correct! Paul Morphy gave his copy of Stauton's 'Chess Player's Handbook' to his friend, James McConnell, the Elder. And the next trivia question is now from Ironbutterfly. johnclark=2 pts ironbutterfly=2 pts cyna=1.5 pts "James McConnel, the elder, of New Orleans, has a book of the tournrment of 1851 which Morphy gave him when fifteen years old. The book had been issued but a short time when Morphy secured this copy. He soon played over all the games and then gave it to his friend. The volume is especially interesting on account of numerous marginal notes in Moprhy's own handwriting by which he expressed his opinion of the games and certain moves. As is well known, this book was edited by Staunton, and young Morphy, like a child of genius, made a captious comment on Staunton' s chess play by writing on the title page to make the authorship read like this: "By H. Staunton, Esq., author of the Handbook of Chess, Chess Player's Companion, etc. (and some devilish bad games)." SOURCE: www.archive.org
johnclark 21-Aug-09, 20:21	Ironbutterfly Throw me one I can get  ) jc
ironbutterfly 22-Aug-09, 04:17	defending Morphy Here's the bone, jc --- A famous chess player defended Morphy against attacks by other famous chess players, who saw "the center of gravity of Morphy's game in its 'beauty'." To this chess player that evaluation was incorrect because "it contemplates Morphy outside of time and space, striving to adapt him to contemporary conceptions and outlooks...." Instead, it is "Morphy's unconquerable strength - that is the reason for his success and the guarantee of his immortality." Who was PM's famous defender?
johnclark 23-Aug-09, 18:04	Alexander Alekhine? I believe it's Alekhine...
ironbutterfly 23-Aug-09, 19:37	Alekhine? Alekhine is correct, jc - a point for you!
johnclark 23-Aug-09, 21:34	On the family... Paul Morphy's family was strongly opposed to his traveling to Europe as they felt he was jeopardizing his law career. Through the intercessions of numerous people they finally consented... but only under certain conditions, which Paul agreed to. What were these conditions?
johnclark 23-Aug-09, 21:35	Forgot the point tally johnclark=3 pts ironbutterfly=2 pts cyna=1.5 pts
cyna 23-Aug-09, 21:45	Re: On the family There would be no stakes bet on his games. He would not disgrace the family by playing chess for money (gambling), as a professional chess player, as the family looked upon it as a disgrace.
johnclark 24-Aug-09, 17:44	On the family... Correct. "It had been expressly agreed by Paul and his family that he should under no circumstances challenge another or accept himself a challenge to play a money match" [Chas. Maurian in a letter to Daniel Fiske, 27 July, 1858 as reprinted by David Lawson]. And this is one of the inconsistencies in PM's history. His father, uncle and grandfather Le Carpentier never had a problem with PM playing for stakes. That was how chess was played in those days. AND, there had been no inkling of family disapproval when Morphy wanted to play Staunton in a $5,000 per side match prior to PM going to England. Maurian, PM's closest friend was taken by surprise by this agreement when he approached Le Carpentier for stake money when PM was in England. And as Lawson points out, had Maurian known of the agreement he would have gone to PM's fellow members in the New Orleans Chess Club and not approached the family at all. I see this as a tiny, but interesting glimpse into PM's character and thinking. While in England PM played for stakes, but he always returned the money in some form or other to either the opponent or the opponents backers. As with Lowenthal, Paul won the match, collected the 100 pounds and presented Lowenthal with 120 pounds of furniture for Lowenthal's new apartment. Lawson offers the explanation of PM not actually thinking he was violating his agreement with the family because "he had no intention of keeping the money". Anyone working with or being party to kids will know the rationalizing line "... but I wasn't going to keep it!" This also points to another aspect of PM which I was not aware of- he was very secretive! He was selective on the information he provided to others, even to his closest friends. Fascinating.... johnclark=3 pts ironbutterfly=2 pts cyna 2.5 pts cyna asks the next question.
cyna 24-Aug-09, 19:30	RE: On the family... What you have to say about PM's situation is interesting, because I always thought the "professional chess player" - one who played for money - was seen in a negative light in those days. You are right, there has been a lot of speculation about PM, for example: I've seen it written that Paul never earned a living and instead, always lived in his mother's house and was supported by the family. But PM did, in fact, earn a living as a Notary Public for ten years at least, with 41 ledger books to his credit, during the years 1859-1869. Where else would he have gotten the money to buy all his tailored-made suits, panama hats, walking canes, silk stockings, exotic shoes, etc.? Paul even sold his expensive watch at one time when he needed money, didn't he? His family had money, anyway, and times were very different then. I believe it was customary for families to live in the same house, sometimes even after until the children married (that's why they had such larges homes), and many Morphy family members did not marry, so they continued to live at home. Only one of Malvina Morphy Sybrandt's four children married, and Paul's sister Helena never married, neither did Charles leCarpentier, Thelcide's brother, nor did Amelie LeCarpentier, Thelcide's sister, from what I've read in an old Louisiana history book, detailing the seven founding families in New Orleans. Well, thanks JC for enlightening us on the above information on the family. I sure would like to find PM's memoirs, or diary, if they exist. -cyna
cyna 24-Aug-09, 20:52	ATTENTION PM Club Members: This one's for YOU! Trivia Challenge: How many moves were made to checkmate in, "Paul Morphy vs Duke Karl / Count Isouard, 1-0" in "A Night at the Opera" chess game in Paris, 1858? johnclark=3 pts ironbutterfly=2 pts cyna 2.5 pts
johnclark 24-Aug-09, 21:19	cyna on RE: On the family... re: The professional chess player seen in a negative light. I really don't know how the greater society saw professional chess players. I know Harrwitz was the resident professional at Cafe la Regence and Lowenthal did nothing but play chess (he kept his winnings). From what I've read so far, disdain for the "professional" was somewhat of a Morphy thing. Does anyone have more info on this?
cyna 24-Aug-09, 21:41	jc on RE: On the family... Could it have been a Morphy-Family/Creole-Cultural thing?
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