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From	Message
blueshrimper 17-Jan-11, 13:09	Positions, interesting or otherwise This position is from a recently completed game of mine: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. b4 Bxb4 5. c3 Ba5 6. d4 exd4 7. Nxd4 Qf6 8. O-O Nge7 9. Bb2 O-O 10. f4 Bb6 11. e5 Qg6 12. Bd3 Qe6 13. Be4 Nxd4 14. cxd4 d5 15. exd6 e.p. Qxd6 16. Na3 Rd8 17. Rb1 Bxd4+ 18. Qxd4 Qxd4+ 19. Bxd4 Rxd4 20. Bxb7 Rb8 21. Bxc8 Rxc8 22. g3 Rd2 23. Rf2 Rd3 24. Nc2 c5 25. Rb7 Nc6 26. Kf1 g6 27. f5 g5 28. f6 h6 29. Kg2 a5 30. Kh3 Nb4 31. Nxb4 axb4 32. Kg4 c4 33. Rc2 Rd4+ 34. Kh5 c3 35. Kxh6 Rf8 36. Kxg5 Kh7 37. Kf5 Rfd8 38. Rxf7+ Kh6 39. Rb7 Rd2 40. Rxb4 Rd8d5+ 0-1 I had the White pieces and it was my turn to move. I resigned. My young opponent later thanked me for the resignation and said that he too was on the point of resigning. I haven't yet got around to reviewing the game properly. The question is, which of us was correct?
coopershawk 17-Jan-11, 13:29	Ke4 Looks promising for white at first glance, but I have to go back to work, so I can't look carefully yet. I will look closer this evening. Let me know if you want to have the GK computer analyze it.
blueshrimper 17-Jan-11, 13:49	Ah, work, the curse of the chess playing classes I hadn't thought about asking the GK Computer. Tell you what, I don't have to go back to work until tomorrow morning, so I'll ask the oracle and I'll let you know what it comes up with. I have previously not liked the GK computer much, but this is because it has a tendency to describe my moves as either inaccuracies or mistakes. However, I accept that it might be better than us mere mortals when it comes to sorting out endgames.
caveman1960 17-Jan-11, 17:44	Ke6 A delicious endgame position.At first I thought white wins,than black.Icant make up my mind by sight.The wooden pieces will have to come out and some real analyses done.
blueshrimper 17-Jan-11, 21:31	Wooden pieces and the GK computer I also revert to wooden pieces when all else fails. Unfortunately, it is now my turn to have to rush off back to work but I will get back to this position this evening. I got the analysis from the GK computer which says that I was 2.21 ahead but it doesn't suggest a route to a win or loss from here.
caveman1960 17-Jan-11, 21:49	Deleted by caveman1960 on 17-Jan-11, 21:51.
caveman1960 17-Jan-11, 21:56	Endgame Thanks blueshrimper I spent an enjoyable hour moving weighted wooden pieces analysing the position.I think a win for white.I spent ages putting it down in columns in the above but when sending, it did nt keep in column form.Something for all members to be aware of.
coopershawk 17-Jan-11, 23:03	I still like 41.Ke4 I want to be sure to exchange one of those Black rooks on doubled on the d file. They will be very strong if black can keep them both. Expecting 41. . . . Rxc2 42.Kxd5 Rxa2 After that, the threats from the passed pawns for both sides make things interesting for both sides. White's King is closer to the middle of the board, which would ordinarily be an advantage, but in this case it may not be helpful because presumably it will be trying to defend white's f pawn as it attempts to reach f8. I didn't find an immediate clear win for white, but I don't think that white's resignation was warranted. Additional ideas are welcome.
blueshrimper 18-Jan-11, 12:46	From my own notes Caveman, I'm glad that my game game kept you amused for so long. I remember reading something about sending columns of figures in one of the forums, but I'm afraid I can't find it again now. Someone else was experiencing the same problem and I think the answer was that something unseen attaches itself to the message which has the effect of throwing the columns out of line and making them look meaningless. Cascadejames, I have just finished reading the notes I made on the game as we went along and 41. Ke4 would indeed have been my next move. I agree, now that the dust has settled, that my resignation was not correct. I should certainly have played along for a few more moves. Once again, from reading my own notes, there were two main factors behind my decision to resign. The first was the lack of a credible plan about what I should do from here. This was coupled with a general feeling that my opponent probably did have a plan. Secondly, I think I was a bit dispirited having spent chunks of the game on the back foot, and felt that I hadn't really played well enough to deserve anything much from the game. Anyway, moving on, I'm bored with my game now, whose turn is it next? Does anyone else have an endgame position we could have a look at?
coopershawk 18-Jan-11, 22:31	More examples I have a couple in mind, but I need to think about them first, and I have been tied up at work. I will put up an example either tomorrow or the day after. Meanwhile I hope someone else is as brave as blueshrimper and posts a game or two of his own.
coopershawk 25-Jan-11, 20:54	Another endgame This game ended in a draw a few moments ago. The play from both sides was far from perfect. I was unable to capitalize on a one pawn advantage. I declined a draw offer at move 40, thinking there must be a way to win, but was unable to figure it out. In the end I offered a draw later because I could see I would be unable to prevent my opponent from trading his bishop for my extra pawn, which would have left me with insufficient material to win. Constructive comments are welcome. game
blueshrimper 25-Jan-11, 21:41	Looks interesting I have a few games to think about today but I will have a longer look at this one this evening.
blueshrimper 26-Jan-11, 12:15	I would have taken the draw This is the position after Black's move 39., which I think was the point where cascadejames was offered a draw. White has a one pawn advantage which he is about to lose. My feeling is that the g pawn should win for White either by getting through to promotion or by forcing Black to exchange his Bishop for the pawn. Having said that, I can't actually come up with a plan to do this. I tend to agree with cascadejames, my instincts tell me that there should be a win for White, but I can't see how. I guess that as a club for "endgames" we should know how to do stuff like this. Looking at it from the point of view of the Black side, it seems to me that Black has no winning chances. The advanced c pawn will fall to the Knight. What does everyone else think?
coopershawk 05-Feb-11, 22:09	Here is my latest endgame effort. The computer doesn't think highly of my endgame play but I did get the win. I think the game has some interest for showing the value of a pair of passed pawns supported by rooks behind them. We exchanged queens early, but don't get to the endgame until about move 30 if you want to skip ahead. game
blueshrimper 07-Feb-11, 13:11	I'm not sure about the GK computer I often find myself either not agreeing with or not understanding the gameknot computer analysis. However, I tend to agree in this case that White's moves 31 and 32 were poor and 42 Rxf2 was of course a fatal mistake, but well done James for taking advantage if them
caveman1960 07-Feb-11, 21:35	The value of endgame study From the position should black exchange or try to set up a fortress?Is it a forced win for white? from a recent game of mine.Got the draw and saved a few rating points.The value of endgame study!
blueshrimper 07-Feb-11, 21:45	Quite a tough one At first glance I thought it was a win for white but now i'm less sure. It's early in the morning here and I probably need to let a bit more coffee into my system before I can decide. I'll set the position up and give it some thought during the day and hopefully I will be able to post something more sensible later.
blueshrimper 08-Feb-11, 12:05	I must get a better understanding of endgames This sort of position is exactly why I need to know more about endgames. If I had been playing either side in this position, I would have been happy with the draw. The first question caveman1960 asks is should Black exchange? I think yes, but my reasoning is rather negative. I would have exchanged because I can't see anything better to do with the Rook. Is it a forced win for White? I have done quite a bit of playing around with this postition, assuming that the exchange has taken place. I can't find a forced sequence of moves which wins for White. Of course, this doesn't mean that it isn't there somewhere. Wolfgang, you tell us that you got the draw, but it would be interesting to know how the game proceeded from here. Probably best to wait until everyone has had there say first I guess.
caveman1960 08-Feb-11, 14:02	Why studying endgame is important blueshrimper in this position its my belief that blacks best option is to try and establish a fortress type position.If the rooks come off black only has a pawn for the bishop but more importantly white will be able to avoid wholesale pawn exchanges and than win a tempo with the Bishop so that whites King will eventually get in at blacks pawns, I could be wrong of course as later in the game White sacs the Bishop to break through the fortress and is a pawn up in a Rook endgame.That position in my next post. game
caveman1960 08-Feb-11, 14:20	oops wrong game. apologies.here is the correct game. game the next position of interest is at whites 35.Bxh5. Is this whites best winning try? After the forced acceptance of the Bishop sac , can black draw the rook ending a pawn down with best play? As a matter of interest the Gameknot computer gives 35Bxh5 as a blunder.I agree with dim_weasel that it was the best practical choice.And I would never have followed the computers preferred sequence and broken up my fortress position with35.... f6.
blueshrimper 08-Feb-11, 15:02	Clarification needed Should we be looking at the position after 53. Bxh5 ?
caveman1960 09-Feb-11, 00:47	Their are two positions to look at.After Blacks 34th move is 35.Bxh5 the best winning try? The second is after 35Rxh5.With best play is this a win for white or a draw?
coopershawk 21-Apr-11, 21:27	A draw? This was an agreed draw in the 1951 World Championship. White: M. Botvinnik Black: D. Bronstein Match Game 9; 1951: Dutch Defense [Event "match"] [Site "Ch World , Moscow (Russia) (9)"] [Date "1951.01.10"] [EventDate "?"] [Round "?"] [Result "1/2-1/2"] [White "Mikhail Botvinnik"] [Black "David Bronstein"] [ECO "A91"] [WhiteElo "?"] [BlackElo "?"] [PlyCount "82"] 1.d4 e6 2.c4 f5 3.g3 Nf6 4.Bg2 Be7 5.Nc3 O-O 6.d5 Bb4 7.Bd2 e5 8.e3 d6 9.Nge2 a6 10.Qc2 Qe8 11.f3 b5 12.Qb3 Bc5 13.cxb5 Bd7 14.Na4 Ba7 15.b6 Bxa4 16.b7 Bxb3 17.bxa8=Q Bb6 18.axb3 Qb5 19.Nc3 Qxb3 20.Rxa6 Nxa6 21.Qxa6 Nxd5 22.Qa4 Qxa4 23.Nxa4 Bxe3 24.Bf1 Ra8 25.b3 Bxd2+ 26.Kxd2 Kf8 27.Bd3 g6 28.Rc1 Rb8 29.Nc3 Nb4 30.Be2 Ra8 31.Na4 c6 32.Rc4 Rb8 33.Bd1 Ke7 34.Nb2 d5 35.Rh4 h5 36.g4 hxg4 37.fxg4 f4 38.g5 Rf8 39.Rh7+ Kd6 40.Rg7 e4 41.Rxg6+ Ke5 1/2-1/2 Or See the full game posted by Ion in this thread gameknot.com or here www.chessgames.com Interesting I think. Is it a draw? If so why?
coopershawk 21-Apr-11, 21:30	Final position Here is the final position if you want to skip ahead.
coopershawk 21-May-11, 12:03	bump No one commented on this game, so I am bumping the thread up to give it another chance.
coopershawk 22-May-11, 11:24	Is there a win here for black? White timed out, so I won. As black I think I had some real advantages in space and tempo. Gameknot's computer says white is +1.48. BUT I don't see a way to win. Do you have any thoughts?
coopershawk 23-May-11, 07:57	error in the previous diagram, actually the GK computer says black is +1.48, not white.
coopershawk 28-May-11, 20:58	here's how. According to Shredder 12. The computer playing against itself just took the little advantages and slowly improved its position, winning a pawn then another. You can copy this and paste it into a "practice game" to play it out. [Event "game continuation"] [Site "gameknot.com"] [Date "2011.05.12"] [Round "-"] [White "Shredder 12"] [Black "Shredder 12"] [WhiteElo "***"] [BlackElo "***"] [ECO "C69"] [Result "***"] 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Bxc6 dxc6 5.O-O f6 6.d4 exd4 7.Nxd4 c5 8.Nb3 Qxd1 9.Rxd1 Bd6 10.Be3 b6 11.N1d2 Be6 12.c4 O-O-O 13.a4 a5 14.f4 Bg4 15.Rf1 Ne7 16.h3 Bd7 17.Nf3 h6 18.e5 fxe5 19.fxe5 Nf5 20.exd6 Nxe3 21.dxc7 Kxc7 22.Rfc1 Bc6 23.Ne5 Rhe8 24.Nxc6 Kxc6 25.Rc3 Re4 26.Rac1 Rd1+ 27.Kh2 Rxc1 28.Nxc1 Nxc4 29.b3 Ne3 (29. ... Nd6) 30.Kg3 Nd5 31.Rc2 Kd6 32.Kf3 Rb4 33.Ke2 g5 34.Kf2 h5 35.Kg1 h4 36.Kf2 Rd4 37.Ke1 Ne3 38.Rf2 c4 39.bxc4 Rxc4 40.Kd2 Nd5 41.Rf5 Rd4+ 42.Ke1 Nc3 43.Nb3 Rd5 44.Rf6+ Kc7 45.Rf7+ Kc6 46.Rf6+ Kb7 47.Rf7+ Ka6 48.Kf2 Nxa4 49.Ke3 Re5+ 50.Kd2 Kb5 51.Rd7 Kc4 0-1 Arrived at this before I stopped it. Not sure I have learned much from this exercise yet. I plan to look at it again to see if I can figure out how the computer turned the small advantage into a two pawn lead.
gcah2006 11-Jul-11, 14:18	Going back to cascadejames's game (posted on 21 Apr 11) ... it looks like a draw. After white plays 1. Bg4, white is threatening to push the black king onto the 4th rank and then offer the rook swap on f6. Black cannot swap the rooks because the pawn can then not be caught. White has enough to stop any counter play from black pawns. I'll happily go through lines if you wish, but I get bored of writing them out!

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