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From	Message
efc8 13-Jan-13, 00:28	New vote game Stealth 12 Bh6.....Ng4 13 Ne7....QxN White would be giving away his N 12 Bh6.....Ng4 13 Nxf6+..NxN Remember the N was moved to g4, White would be giving away his N Looking at 12 Bh6....Ng4 13 Nf4 Can't see why White would do that and shut out the B
efc8 13-Jan-13, 04:42	New vote game 12 Bh6.......Re1 13 NxN.......pxN 14 Qh5......Ne4 15 Bb3.......Ng6 In the position we are in I vote Re8 to free the g7 pawn to capture anything on f6
the-sigularity 13-Jan-13, 06:47	New Vote Game efc: On your first two (12 & 13), (12 & 13) I was showing why W would not make those moves. On your third; 12.Bh6...Ng4 13.Nf4 the reason for that move is to prepare for 14.Ng6 which attacks the rook at f8 because our f7 pawn is pinned by the WB at c4. this is only one of the reasons why we should move our cN to e4 before any other move. On Your analysis, the after that post: 12.Bh6......Re1 13.NXN......pXN 14.Qh5......Ne4 The WB would take 15.BXf7, not move to b3 because after; 15.BXf7.....NXB 16.Qg6+ and mate the next move
efc8 13-Jan-13, 07:05	New vote game Stealth, 14 Qh5......Ne4 15 Bf7 I say Bf7 because the square is empty, the pawn just captured the N 15 Bf7.......KxB
the-sigularity 13-Jan-13, 07:58	New Vote Game efc On 13-Jan-13 04;42 your 15 Post read; 15.Bb3....Ng6 Now on 13-Jan-13 07:05 your post reads: 15.Bf7 because the square is empty. the pawn just captured...... On 13.NXN the WN captures our N at f6, not f7 the square f7 is not empty but still: 15.BXf7 our K can not capture the B is protected by the Q at h5. The B has to be captured by the N or K move,, at which point the B would then capture the R (on e8) when the B would be protected by the Q .
efc8 13-Jan-13, 09:26	New vote game Steath, please refer to 12 Bh6..... Ng4
the-sigularity 13-Jan-13, 09:39	New Vote Game efc, Please look at my post dated 8- Jan-13 at 09:52 When I Initiated that move: 12:Bh6........Ng4 Are we on the same page, or am I missing something?
efc8 13-Jan-13, 11:05	New vote game Stealth, I think I see the problem, this should clear things up. On Jan. 13, '13 I posted 12 Bh6....Re1 which should read 12 Bh6....Re8 13 NxN....pxN 14 Qh5...Ne4 15 Bxf7 and this is where I mention that the f7 Square is empty - PxN 15 Bxf7...which you advised NxB leaving the K at the mercy of the K & B 16 Qg6+mate next move. Hope this will clear up any misunderstanding
hogfysshe 13-Jan-13, 15:32	even though... ...I'd be happy to weigh and discuss options a while longer, I'll go ahead and vote for 12. ...Ng4. Keeping the 2nd knight may give us some useful versatility. Also good to not open another diagonal for white'd lsb. I'm not sure this is the best move and will change my vote if someone convinces me that 12. ...Nxd5 is better.
zed2 13-Jan-13, 16:32	NXN I'll stick with my original idea
the-sigularity 13-Jan-13, 19:05	New Vote Game After looking considering all the options I vote for: 12.Bh6........Ng4 (hope our next move can be13....... Ne5) And I am absolutely opposed to: 12.Bh6........Re8
kepplersteve 13-Jan-13, 21:08	pxh6 Just putting my 2 cents in, nobody has suggested this. Material gain for B
the-sigularity 13-Jan-13, 22:24	New Vote Game 12Bh6........pXB 13NXN+ and our K has to move. because our Q can not take the N since it is protected by his f1R. This would leave our position in shambles. Again; 12Bh6.........Ng4 threatens 13.NXB the W B best move as I see it is: 13.Bf4 to save the B and protect his h pawn and control e5. if this happens then; 14.Ne5 connecting our 2 Ns, plus our N at e5 also threatens the B at c4. Of course this is all conjecture, but an effort to place our pieces at favorable positions, and if we can throw ion off balance, then we can start thinking about material gain. The way things are now, we should be aiming for stability so if we can trade our N for a B, I believe this is a plus for us, unless we find that our, N can be more useful in a position, (such as a fork at e3, if we can force the d5 N away)
efc8 14-Jan-13, 02:30	New vote game OK Stealth I agree with you and vote Ng4
bigpeta 14-Jan-13, 04:03	playing Ng4 after some very good discussions it looks like Ng4 is the vote move.
bigpeta 15-Jan-13, 08:16	Move 13 Board Position Latest moves 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.0-0 Nf6 5.d4 Bxd4 6.Nxd4 Nxd4 7.Be3 Nc6 8.Nc3 h6 9.f4 exf4 10.Bxf4 d6 11.Nd5 0-0 12.Bxh6 Ng4 13.Bf4 And some comments from ion H'mmm... A minor disappointment and a bit of a surprise. Of course, after 12...gxh6 I was going to reply 13.Rxf6 after which White is probably winning. But 12...Nxd5 was good and could have led to stiff tactical fight for both sides after 13.Qh5, my intended response. Now I just get away with a pawn and game remains (I think) fairly level. I did consider 13.Bxg7, but I couldn't really find enough attack for White after 13...Kxg7 14.h3 (14.Be2 might be an improvement) 14...Nge5 15.Rf6 Nxc4 16.Qh5 Qxf6 (and this is probably not even Black's best) 17.Nxf6 Kxf6 18.Rf1ch Ke7.
the-sigularity 15-Jan-13, 13:42	New Vote Game Vote for: 13.Bf4.......Ne5 14.Be2......c6 15.Ne3......NXN 16.BxN......Rf1
zed2 15-Jan-13, 23:49	Ne5 I agree with Stealth-invader
efc8 15-Jan-13, 23:57	New vote game Stealth, please check 16..........Rf1 and why 13....Ne5 moving the N a second time before developing the B
bigpeta 16-Jan-13, 01:14	which N both Ns can go to e5 so you must specify which one you are referring to. and a reminder. these ideas about what you can and cannot do (eg dont move a piece twice in the opening) are guidelines and not hard and fast rules. but if you are going to ignore the guideline then you should be able to justify doing so.
efc8 16-Jan-13, 02:02	New vote game 13 Bf4....Nge5 looks better, controlling more squares
the-sigularity 16-Jan-13, 06:30	New Vote Game Of course. It was an oversight on my last post, in not pointing out which N moved where. Thank You Pete 13.Bf4.......Nce5 This move is to connect the two N,s & threaten the c4 B 14.Be2......c6 The h6 B is threatened therefore I believe ion will move it to e2. 14.....c6 threatens the N at d5 (This pawn move could not have been made if the c N had not been moved to e5) 15.Ne3......NXN The reason for this move is to simplify, Because I anticipate h3. 16.BxN......Rf1 (This sequence may or may not be the best we can do)
the-sigularity 16-Jan-13, 08:49	New Vote Game Last move, move 16 for black should read: 16.BXN.........Re8 Thank You efc N moves are necessary at this time to keep forcing (maybe) ion into making moves he needs to make, thus not allowing time for him to formulate a plan.
the-sigularity 16-Jan-13, 16:26	New Vote Game On my 16-Jan-13 06:30 Should read: 14.Be2..........c6 To threaten the N at d5 Please disregard: (The h6 B is threatened therefore I believe ion will move it to e2) This line should have been a continuing explanation at the end of the preceding line, and instead of h6 B, should read c4 B. Sorry about the confusion.
the-sigularity 16-Jan-13, 22:03	New Vote Game I believe some of you may be trying to decipher all the explanations and corrections on my last three posts. therefor, for the sake of simplification and clarity, I have decided to make this new and simple post. So just ignore those and replace them with this one, so everyone can adjust: Vote for: 13...........Nc6 to e5 This will be moving this N for a second time because; The 2 N's will be connected for the time being in support of each other. This N move threatens the B on c4. It may entice ion to capture, when we would then capture the B with our N. This N protects the g3 square from the WN which can move f4 and g3 in two moves. At e5 it is free from pawn threats, and protected by the d3 pawn. At e5 it covers 8 squares since it is centrally located.
efc8 18-Jan-13, 18:31	New vote game Bf4.....Nge5 will control more squares
hogfysshe 19-Jan-13, 17:41	a few more candidates I'm not convinced we should let white's knight stay on d5, so, in addition to the moves suggested, I think we should also look at 13. ...Ne7 and 13. ...Be6. here's an example of why I've got my eye on that horse. 13. Bf4 Nce5 14. Bxe5 Nxe5 15. Nf6+ (which he "could" play and which requires 15. ...gxf6) there are defenses to both of those possible moves by white. but will we be happy with the resulting position. for example, will we still be able to place a knight on e5 (or will we have to play PxB). candidates so far... 13. ...Nge5 13. ...Nce5 13. ...Ne7 13. ...Be6 not saying these new candidates are better than the others only putting them forward to be considered.
bigpeta 20-Jan-13, 01:30	candidate moves 13. ..Ne7?? Bg5!!! and you lose a Q or R. 13. .. Nce5! Bxe5?? would not be played. instead he should simply play Bb3 keeping the pressure on. But note i do give Nce5 a good indicator. 13. .. Be6 is not a 'bad' move but it does rather block up the centre
zed2 20-Jan-13, 01:49	Nce5 for me Hi Everyone ...I still stick with my original idea of Nce5.
bigpeta 20-Jan-13, 08:36	annotation symbols you will notice i use notation symbols ( ? ! etc ) to show what i think are good or bad moves. for those of you not familiar with this you can read about the full set here en.wikipedia.org
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