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CHESS PUZZLE, FEN 1KR5/1N3QPP/rP3N2/4P3/1b1Pp3/1pq2p2/1pk3pp/7r b - -

Added by:claudio-emilio
Added on:16-Sep-09
Description:
Difficulty:
chess puzzle 1KR5/1N3QPP/rP3N2/4P3/1b1Pp3/1pq2p2/1pk3pp/7r b - -
Attempts:1314
Solved:993 (75%)
Black to move, mate in 4
Comments: (31) » LastGo to last comment
From Comment
existentialist
03-Mar-16, 00:22

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Once you figure out that the board is backward from what you think
Then it gets pretty easy pretty quickly.
donnaclara
03-Mar-16, 00:56

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Not believable ....
It is very hard to believe that the board is "upside down" in a regular game (Fox-Efremova).
Rather it is mate -in-five with:
1...Rh1+ 2. Kxh1 Qxf1+ 3. Kh2 Rh8+ 4. Nh4 Rxh4+ 5. gxh4 Bf4#
ricardodiamondo
03-Mar-16, 02:09

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Confusing board layout
This is all wrong! Both Black & White could get 2 queens each by moving pawns one square, the Black Queen is not under threat by d4 pawn etc. Quite good solution though, works due to a5 not being covered. But I agree with donnaclara that I cannot believe this layout would happen under normal conditions.
paviland
03-Mar-16, 03:34

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Crazy Layout!
Once you orientate yourself properly to the upside down board, this is simple enough to solve but the board layout should be corrected or the puzzle deleted!
bunnyrabbitz
03-Mar-16, 04:34

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"upside-down board"
The upside-down board is used in a lot of puzzles to throw you off. That's why I always first look at the coordinates when attempting a puzzle.
jrums14
03-Mar-16, 04:58

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Poor
I don't mind layouts that make you think, but this position looks entirely probable, aside from the fact it's upside down. Once you figure that out it's mindless from there. So I guess the fun is figuring out the board is upside down? I'm fine never seeing this puzzle again.
justinjkropf
03-Mar-16, 06:25

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"Right side up" puzzle
See #165776 for the "right side up" version.
sydneyapplebaum
03-Mar-16, 06:30

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illegal position
looks like it is impossible to reach this position.
hellofriesen
03-Mar-16, 08:20

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The right side up version referenced by justin was much more satisfying.
geokev
03-Mar-16, 08:39

Comment deleted on 10-Sep-20, 13:27
kenderfender
03-Mar-16, 08:43

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Yep, misleading description.
We all agree that it looked like a regular game, but someone should have added something like "Adapted from...", instead of "Fox P. vs. Efremova D. 2006". At least, that description should be corrected. There is no fun in the rest. 0 stars.
ciaranb
03-Mar-16, 10:32

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stupid
There's nothing clever about inverting the board like that.
easyrider007
03-Mar-16, 10:59

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Impossible position!!!
danielroels
03-Mar-16, 11:49

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far fetched
I also prefer puzzles that start from positions which could actually occur during real games, puzzles with upside down boards or ten bishops for instance are not my cup of tea
divinityinfinity
03-Mar-16, 12:23

Comment deleted on 21-Apr-16, 03:16
frankmccullough
03-Mar-16, 12:36

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What am I missing?
Why can't pawn on on b6 take rook on a5? Can't see how this is a checkmate.
archduke_piccolo
03-Mar-16, 12:59

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@frankmccullough...
The White pawns are coming TOWARDS you.

This puzzle looks like a c***-up, with the board flipped but not the pieces. Check out donnaclara's posting above for the mate in 5.
frankmccullough
03-Mar-16, 13:06

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re:What am I missing?
Thank you for clearing that up...would have kept me awake tonight
ctnz
03-Mar-16, 13:47

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See the entire game here:
chess-db.com
kicorse
03-Mar-16, 14:20

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I think this is probably an innocent mistake
as mnemosynewave has already suggested. It's a shame because the position, as it was meant to be, is an interesting one.
paldan84
03-Mar-16, 14:42

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nothing wrong here
If you are Black.. the board is set up correctly. And...... you are Black.. 'cause that is the first move.. wasn't confusing to me.
toytocao
03-Mar-16, 14:47

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you offer us lies
too bad, you offer us lies
mkchess
03-Mar-16, 15:12

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In the game the position is "normal", the winner move was Rh1+, not Ra8+ as the "puzzle" show.

I think that idea was show a position that you can "invert" the board. This is a bizarre situation.

A palindromic chess position...

Poetic, a stetic question... See it as a curiosity, not as a chess position.
phonybenoni
03-Mar-16, 18:57

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Just for the record, the position (oriented as it is, with Black moving up the board) is "possible"; that is, it can be reached from the normal starting position through a series of legal moves. I don't care to take the time to figure out the details but it can be done.
sydneyapplebaum
04-Mar-16, 06:31

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Thanks phonybenoni
I stand corrected, you're absolutely right. At first blush I thought it would require too many piece captures for the pawns to get past one another and forgot that the pawns can move to a new file by capturing each other too (duh) - moving the g pawns to the 3rd and 6th ranks and then capturing on h2 and h7, for example. I actually set up two boards, one with the final position and the other a 'working' board and found one of numerous ugly but legal solutions. It was an enjoyable exercise. Thanks again for pointing this out.
olderguy
13-Mar-24, 10:09

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Board issue
It makes sense if you are the white player and you are about to resign.
philou39
13-Mar-24, 14:18

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Wsh not Ra1+ ?
Hi everyone,
I thought at this, playing Ra1+ in second move instead of Qc8+ considered as incorrect by GK :
1. ... Ra8+
2. Kxa8 Ra1+
3. Na5 Qxc8+
4. Ka7 Rxa5#

I can’t see why il is incorrect ? When playing this, the only piece to move for the whites is the king. So the end is the same.

Can anyone tell me why this is not considered as good ?
Thanks
existentialist
13-Mar-24, 18:15

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1. . . Ra8+; 2. Kxa8 Ra1+
2. . . . Kb8 and black has wasted a rook and a move, and can no longer mate in 4..
snailmate
07-Oct-25, 11:19

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I love all the ways people are rationalising the fact that they had trouble solving it by saying "Unfair! The board is upside down!" (Which is not strictly true; it's more accurate to say that on first glance the position looks as if White is at the bottom.) The position is neither illegal nor impossible, just highly improbable, It's intentionally misleading, and that's the point. If you didn't solve it because you assumed that White was at the bottom, then admit it, you missed the trick. You didn't get it. Stop criticising the person supplying the puzzle, just relax and have a laugh at it.
wardh
07-Oct-25, 11:39

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Yes, snailmate, I fully agree.
archduke_piccolo
07-Oct-25, 13:28

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Here's a thing, though...
Set up the puzzle with the board the 'right way round', you have a mate in 5 - of no special difficulty, but a more interesting checkmate to finish. I still think the 'author' of this puzzle made a booboo of some kind.
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