GameKnot: GameKnot related, Cond. Moves (No not that again)

« TAP TO LOG IN

GameKnot related: Cond. Moves (No not that again)

« Back to forum

From

Message

evader23
02-Mar-20, 12:29

Cond. Moves (No not that again)

I was playing a game recently where I ended it on a 8 move cond. Checkmate. And 9 of 10 cond. and close to 1/3 of my moves were cond. 9 in a row and 1/3 overall are my personal best on cond. And it i1s clearly stated in my profile I use cond. sometimes. I have never had anyone in game tell me to stop but was wondering. a couple of things.

For those of you who use Cond moves what is you record for mosr in game, in a row? Have you had an opponent whine7 about it?

pop_queen_legend
02-Mar-20, 13:09

Whining occurs even on medium high rating levels like mine.In many openings,my book moves go deep,sometimes to move 25 or so.And in many endgames,the moves are obvious,so I plug in sometimes many moves.I think I used 14 once or around that number.After I won by position and not even a piece up and no checkmate in sight,my opponent resigned(who was rated above 2200)and messages me that,quote...."I was obviously cheating".Unquote.

After that,I placed the guy on my ignore list.A post game analysis showed that the game only gave me a +1 pawn lead in a few moves.

I have a suspicion that his own chess program was simply weak and I defeated it,so he could not believe it and was sore!But the game was not even over yet!
Heck,I do not even know how to use the cond moves to max benefit yet.I heard that there are ways to have several branched conditional move strings active at the same time?That seems interesting,but I may confuse myself and lose by making a mistake somewhere!

myrydin
02-Mar-20, 13:45

I rarely use conditional moves, because I don’t want to limit my options in case I’ve missed something, but when I do use them, there are a handful of players who ask me to stop. I usually do so out of courtesy, but I doubt they have the right to insist. I think it’s one of those things that are turned upside down.

pop_queen_legend
02-Mar-20, 13:52

I could be wrong,but I think that cond moves sometimes plays a mind game with opponents
who may tend to speed up their own moves and worry that they will be prone to more subtle errors.Especially those who want to make the last move of the day.Just a pet thought of mine.

myrydin
02-Mar-20, 13:53

p.s. labyrinthine, I think it is possible to set different conditionals and to branch. I recommend fiddling around with the options to see what they can do; you can always cancel or close windows if you’re not happy.

pop_queen_legend
02-Mar-20, 13:57

Perhaps I will try it sometime.But I better make it with an unrated game,so if I make a mistake,I won't care as much.I have only been on GK for a little over a year and I am still learning various features.

evader23
02-Mar-20, 14:06

labyrinthine

Cond do play mind game a little. As far as branching I don't think it works that way you have to enter the whole line again and vary it on that point

lord_shiva
04-Mar-20, 11:47

Record

My record is somewhere around 8 moves. These were just past the mid game, involving a series of checks for which options were quite limited. I believe I did end up winning that one.

I used to fear making mistakes in the conditional and did have one recent game go quite awry in the opening, against a clearly under rated player in a team game.

Most of the time I have been very pleased with the results--even when I'm losing. But I don't use them much in the mid game, preferring to take my time. I reserve them in the mid game largely for obvious piece swaps where I cannot gain advantage doing anything else.

And forced mates go without saying.

I have had only one player complain about them, and I largely ignored his complaint and kept using them. He was rated higher than me but I suspect the conditionals provided some sort of psychological advantage in that I drew one game and won the other. I half expected him to retaliate by using a chess engine but he played honorably. I respect that.

I feel I am probably MORE likely to make a mistake NOT using the engine. I remember examining a set of moves once and knowing how I needed to respond, and when the time came to move forgot and did the wrong thing. I believe that game ended in a draw--a game I would have won had I programmed the conditional.

One last positive aspect is that if your opponent makes all his moves 12 hours off your schedule, a conditional moves they do not respond to right away buys you twelve hours.

evader23
04-Mar-20, 11:55

Ty for Lord.

I wanna add that while I have not had someone whine on cond. moves I have had more than once forced a draw and gotten varients of 'Play to win'. I do play to win but I'll take a draw over a defeat.
en
Also it has been said that fear of making mistakes with cond. moves. It is when I see something obious and don't program it as cond. that I screw it up. But that may be just me

lord_shiva
04-Mar-20, 14:13

oops

That should have read "I feel I am probably MORE likely to make a mistake NOT using the conditional moves." I do not use engines on my games--except GK's post analysis engine and once in a great while some other post game analysis.

I know what you mean about "play to win" though I find most of the time I'm playing to avoid losing. Like you if I think I am going to lose I will play for the draw. That was the one game mentioned above--the guy 3 moved me to avoid losing.

bathm3lek
27-Mar-20, 16:30

Opponent Appears to be using Conditional Moves...

I cannot say for certain because I don't know...but my current Opponent offered a Draw and I Declined. It appears that they are playing conditional moves because when I move "their" response comes very quickly. Opponent offered Draw and I declined- several times. Opponent keeps playing moves in which I am in constant check and won't finish the game. Is there anything I can do about this?? TY

lord_shiva
27-Mar-20, 16:34

Yes

3-fold repetition is a stalemate.

Just declare it. The button is right next to offer draw. When it is your move, simply declare the draw by virtue of 3-fold repetition.

lord_shiva
27-Mar-20, 16:41

I misread that. Yes, the game is drawn. Why should he let you win? It is unfortunate, because you are ahead a knight and a pawn, but I wouldn't let you win were I in his position. He should force the draw instead of programming conditionals--this game is over unless he throws it on purpose.

In YOUR position you should keep moving and maybe he will time out or something. He can end this whenever he wants--but honestly this game is drawn, in the current position. And there is nothing wrong with that. You're both at 1200, so I don't think either one will lose any points.

lord_shiva
27-Mar-20, 16:48

Blunder

Incidentally,
53. Ke3 Qxa5 was a blunder.
53. Ke3 Qe1+ would have given you the white queen.

I normally would not comment on a game in progress but I don't see how this impacts your result.

garos
27-Mar-20, 18:33

Three-fold repetitions

By my count game-ending three-fold repetitions have appeared in at least 4 configurations. A couple of these have appeared 5 times, one 6 times. Just nominate the draw.

baddeeds
25-Jun-20, 14:50

I've never had this before. But, I almost once did it when it was set against me. But, their use of conditional was a blessing in disguise, however. As it wasn't hidden, so it was right afterwards, that I discovered that it was a blessing in disguise. On the other hand, there was a game after that which made me stop liking conditional moves. Now, I have mixed thinking and for me it always differ, depending on the situation. As it'll sometimes help me play the best. And, there are other times, where it's not so great. In time, I'll post more about where I find helpful or not in my games.

baddeeds
26-Jun-20, 08:15

One example happened in this position, now that the game's over.

I had a long set starting with 11...g6, since 12.Nxg6 was, of course, going to be my response. But, I had longer variation with it as I also had it set for 12...Rf8, with which, I was thinking in terms of 13.Rxe7+, to win the Q since 13...Qxe7 is forced. Then, talk about, "When you see a good move, look for something better", I revalulated. And, I realized that I could do more then just win the Q, as I'd have a mating sequence starting with 13.Qxh7, as now if he doesn't move the R, I don't take with the N. Instead, I would've answered with 14.Rxe7+, forcing 14...Qxe7 to allow 15.Qxe7# which is mate. And, if, instead he were to play 13...Rf7, I would've continued with 14.Qg8+ forcing 14...Rf8 since I'd have 15.Qxf8# And, with that, I eliminated the long set of conditional moves and changed it to just 11...g6 12.Nxg6, as I just wasn't sure how he'd respond.

Well, not surprisingly, he played 12...hxg6

, so I wasn't going to consider anythingelse, besides 13.Qxh8+ But, my original plan, however, was to liquidate Q's, being ahead. But, I found something even better which involved a similar mating sequence, so I went back to setting conditional moves, which helped me find the mate.

baddeeds
26-Jun-20, 08:22

In fact

Except for the very last move of this puzzle

puzzle #241529 everything else was the same. But, the difference with the very last move mated just as quickly. This time, I won't post the game to avoid spoiling it, but it was the most recent one that I just finished.

lord_shiva
27-Jul-25, 20:26

Branching Conditionals

<<It appears that they are playing conditional moves because when I move "their" response comes very quickly.>>

The log shows all conditionals triggered. Also, GK tells you “your move triggered a conditional response.” So you know.

I think branching conditionals are reserved for paid memberships, but I use them. You program the alternative and then “save as new.” I have programmed every possible opponent response in a few games, to force mate.

On the Ladders you may wish to avoid programming the mate if you don’t want anyone challenging you.

« Back to forum