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GameKnot related: Suggestion: Faster ending to games?

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handyandy888
25-Apr-13, 02:01

Suggestion: Faster ending to games?

Hello Gameknot. Love this website, keep up the great work.

Was finishing a game today using "conditional moves" and was wondering if it's possible to automatically mate when the King (or a defending player) has only one option (no other move can be made due to the nature of the check). I don't think I've explained this well, but when a mate is a certainty, the conditional move could result in a checkmate, rather than waiting longer for the obvious conclusion.

Anyway, I can write it differently to explain my suggestion if need be.

Again, thank you for a great online service.
Andrew

kingdawar
25-Apr-13, 03:36

No. Not possible.

Gameknot.com
25-Apr-13, 08:25

Simply set up the conditional move that delivers the checkmate and as soon as your opponent makes their move, the game will end automatically.

tactical_abyss
25-Apr-13, 09:21

Deleted by tactical_abyss on 25-Apr-13, 09:29.

tactical_abyss
25-Apr-13, 09:29

Deleted by tactical_abyss on 25-Apr-13, 09:32.

tactical_abyss
25-Apr-13, 09:32

I think what handyandy888 is describing is that he wants the mate to be automatic on the spot in one conditional move or possibly a series of conditional moves,even without the opponent making a move at all.So if I give a series of 5 conditional moves and the GK computer recognizes it to be a mate in 5,then handyandy888 wants the mate to be automatic on the spot to speed up the game without the opponent actually playing through the conditional moves.

This of course is not going to happen for logical reasons...but I think thats what he is describing or wants in a theoretical sense.

handyandy888
25-Apr-13, 14:09

Thanks tactical_abyss.

It was a suggestion, rather than a "want", but in retrospect, it make sense that the next time the opponent plays, the conditional set delivers the mate regardless. I just thought it would be cool to deliver the death blow through automation.

tactical_abyss
25-Apr-13, 14:39

Deleted by tactical_abyss on 25-Apr-13, 14:51.

tactical_abyss
25-Apr-13, 14:51

I look at chess sort of like the game of 8 ball on the pool table.Most people think they know the rules of 8 ball but they really do not know the "real rules" and have played it wrong for years.For example,when the 8 ball goes in on the break,some players say...oh thats a win!And some players say,no thats a loss!Well,the real rules(and you can buy an official rule book to find out)...is that you neither win or lose!The other player(who did not break)has the option of reracking the balls or "respotting"the 8 ball and play the rest of the game from that position.In bar rooms this cannot be done most of the time because when the 8 ball goes in it has to stay in(on pay tables)...thus,their is a "bar"rule of win or loss...but the bar rule is not really accurate relative to the "real" and true rule of 8 ball.Thats more of a "house"rule.So what do I mean by this?Well,the real rule behind 8 ball is that you must get all your own balls in first(either the high or low balls)and then only go for the 8 ball to make it a legal finish of the game,and if the 8 ball goes in on the break,that did not conform to the rule of first getting all your own balls in first.And of course,if he "scratches"when going for the 8 ball he loses.

Same way with chess.You must allow your opponent to finish ALL his moves(including conditional moves)for the game to legally finish.And just like in pool where the shooter can "saw"away at that shot for about as long as he wants,in chess your opponent can take the full 2 to 14 days to make the move,no matter how annoying it is.Thats corrsp chess for you!

doc3170
01-May-13, 07:40

Thats corrsp chess for you!

I agree with everything except the last sentence. ALL Ranked Chess games come with time limits. Weather it be a 5 minute game of speed chess, or 14 day correspondence chess; your opponent has a Pre-arranged & Mutually accepted time limit to make their moves. Even if you're in a position where all moves are forced.

I believe most people think it's rude or bad form to drag out an obvious loss; However, I also know plenty of players who move slower & study harder when the position gets more complex. I understand people are anxious to get their rating points when they find themselves in a winning position. But I also think it's rude to rush your opponent.

Correspondence Chess was set up as a Friendly & Educational way to play, learn, & study chess positions & moves. This site offers real-time chess. There are also lots of other Internet sites that offer Free real-time chess. GameKnot is hands down the best Correspondence Chess site on the Net, let's keep it that way!

Chess can be frustrating & annoying, as well as fun & exciting, but that's chess for you!

tactical_abyss
01-May-13, 10:08

Hi doc3170,
So which part of my paragraph do you disagree with?I'm not sure I understand you correctly?Yes,all players have set time limits as I also said above and they are entitled to take the full amount of time,so there is no "rudeness"involved if they want to take to the last minute to move.There really is by definition,no stalling either,since they are simply utilizing the given time limit either by moving in an hour or the full 3 days,for example.

See,everything is an "opinion" and I disagree with you,that most players would think its "rude" or bad form to drag out an "obvious"loss.See,we have to define an "obvious"loss.What is an obvious loss to a 1200 or 1300 rated player?That loss may be obvious to you,but not necessarily your opponent!And if your telling your opponent that it is "over"in 3 more moves,then that by definition can be construed as "rude"!And if you did not say anything to him,ok,but you cannot stake you "life"on the fact that he knows all of these "obvious"things that you do!Perhaps your opponent may want to find a way to escape,look for a draw or take more time to analyze a position...even if he KNOWS its a loss!!!!
So no,its neither rude or unsporting or bad form to take as much time as they want...even in a lost position that the opponent will lose in a few more moves.Thats what your conditional moves are for...and use them against your "definition" of a "stalling"opponent.Then it dosen't matter what he does when you engage those conditional moves...right?Next someone will be saying..."well conditional moves are unsporting or rude,especially when they go all the way in to mate the opponent".No,I disagree!For it "counterattacks"the logic of a so called "staller" by giving him a speed medicine back in his courtyard!

As to a sure loss...that is a highly relative term.Take a look at my Queen sac games in my club forum(The Elite chess club).I give away my Queen on move # 3 which is the equivalent of 3 major pieces in the opening.Most players would already say...TA,throw the towel in,your going to lose!Ha ha!Well,take a look at who wins...and I win against much higher rated opponents than 1200-1300!In deeper psychology terms,it is sometimes actually a cool ploy for your OPPONENT take longer in not only a true lost endgame,but in obvious exchange moves,if,and I say if YOU have a HISTORY of time-outs!Why?Well,your opponent might lose in 3 more moves,but you may end up timing-out the longer he waits and then HE will win!!!!Rude on his part you say?No,I disagree.Its a strategy and a ploy.And as Patrick Swayzy would say in the movie "Road House"...."opinions vary!"

So,doc3170....let me remind you that you mentioned above that it is "rude to rush your opponent".With that said,then the logical response is...it is NOT rude for any opponent to take as long as they want to move,even in lost positions,including time-outs with sudden vacations.There are other "hidden" reasons some players take longer to move when its near the end of the game.One of the hidden reasons is that they may have another win coming up in a week or less and they might want to reach that "elusive"goal of their all time best rating by beating that player first and finally,even for a few days,reach that 1500 rating(for example) and get an "all time high"notification from GK.But by immediately taking the loss to you,they may never have reached that rating goal.So its for all kinds of reasons players take longer in their moves,and the "end"is not always as obvious to some,as it is to others like yourself Doc!

But getting back to the original form of this post,the best way to speed up a game(against your opponent no matter how long he is taking)...is to continue to use conditional moves in positions that appear lost for your opponent or request a draw a few times in what "appears"to be a drawish game.But other than that,it can be "rude"in some players opinions to call someone a staller,when,infact they are simply abiding by the time limit rules in any and all positions on the board...even a mate in 1!

And thats corresp chess for you!

TA

tactical_abyss
01-May-13, 11:56

Also doc3170...

One other way to "speed up" a game is to make sure you only play 2 or 3 days per move,but also check your opponents profile on "average move time".Zero in,if you can on playing only opponents that have less than,say, 10 hours ave move time and no time-outs and again play 2/3 days per move max.Some of those ladder games,I see you playing appear to have extra incremental time and you have some games that have 5,10 and 14 days per move,like against your opponent slyfox4323 you are presently playing.The day I play a 10 or 14 day time control is the day the universe ends!

So if you have time controls like that(monstrous time controls!)that can take a game forever to finish,the last thing I would have mentioned is how to speed up an endgame with an already frozen pancake syrup time control that you accepted or created or did not have to play in the first place!For the logic is this:If a game is set at 2 days and your opponent has a 5 or 10 hour per move ave move time(approx)...then even if that player "slows down"in the last few moves in a mating net,the OVERALL time it took for the 2 day per move game to finish should OVERRIDE the length of time it takes a 10 day per move game with an opponent that also has,say a 24 hour ave move time on his profile!So,any slowdown,even in a mating net you can simply yawn at!!!Planning and strategy and setting better time limits with ALL your games and opponents will speed up that game in a natural way,even if the opponent slows down to a snails pace in some of the individual moves.

doc3170
01-May-13, 12:32

The day I play a 10 or 14 day time control is the day the universe ends!

Then it's simple, don't agree to the time before the game starts. "A snails pace"? I will move at a crustation's pace if I want to.

Doc

tactical_abyss
01-May-13, 12:59

Hi Doc!
Yes,I agree with you,not arguing!Ha ha!
But don't forget,it is YOU that already have or are now playing those 10 and 14 day games...not me!

I agree doc however,that I "prefer"fast movers from move 1 to move 100!I recently had a player take a time-out right at a position where I could have gained a pawn relatively soon.So that gave me the opportunity to send him several conditional move strings(like 20 moves long!)that just sat there and wait for his return to the game!He actually accepted most of those conditional moves(I think 18 of them)...all in less than an hour!!!!Now that surely made up for his 10 days off he took!

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