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blueimann
27-Aug-13, 10:01
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 No points given for a 3 move mate. Why? |
sirissac
27-Aug-13, 13:00
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I think the FAQ(gameknot.com) actually answers your question but the wording may not be precise. Since moves are counted only in pairs, only two (whole) moves have been made in the  game; a third (whole) move will only be made only when both players have made three moves each. As I see it, the ambiguity stems from the phrase "2 or fewer", indeed in your game something more than 2 moves seems to have been made (namely 2½; but still not 3). If it read "fewer than 3" it might be more exact.
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blueimann
27-Aug-13, 15:55
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OK
Chess is suppose to be exact. If I can't cancel a game on the third move, then I should be able to score on it. I guess being able to say I mated someone on this site in 3 moves is good enough. Plenty of Bragging rights to make up for it.
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sirissac
27-Aug-13, 17:42
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?
I wouldn't brag about mating someone in 3 moves. The fact that iamjustapawn2 missed this (well known?) mate is more a reflection on his knowledge of chess than on yours, so there's nothing to brag about. Well, that's my opinion anyway; you can brag if you want. But back to topic at hand...
I don't knot about the cancellations, but yes, I would think it should be the same either way. If you think its a serious problem you can contact Gameknot but I'm not too worried with it, having never ended a game short.
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blueimann
27-Aug-13, 18:51
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I've never seen a mate in 3 ever recorded. I think even the well known mate in 8 moves or the other short mates would be the same as losing in 3, simple mistakes by the other player. I see for you, bragging can't come easy for you being rated as high as you are, maybe if you beat someone rated over 2700, you'd be proud. But for me it is a struggle to beat someone rated in the 1300's, never mined finding any kind of mate in a game. That mate is the only highlight of any of my playing. haha.. Except me winning the first round of the 106th GK Championship for 1500's and under. Other than that I don't have much to say about my playing. I've played and studied from 6 to 14 hours everyday for almost 4 years now. Finally worked my way up to the 1400's from a beginner player. It was a sweet reward for someone rated as low as me. It's not a serious problem for me. Just the principal, GK reads these posts and if it is of any importance, they'll act on it. It's a first for me and probably a first for GK to consider, if they're interested. I only felt like bragging for the first couple of days. Time to work harder and make something happen greater for me. Like getting a stable rating in the 1600's. I think since it was mate in 3 and not a resign, it should be credited. Simple logic on my part. Since it is in my favor. haha...
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blueimann
27-Aug-13, 18:58
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I might have missed it, but I just finished studying one of the first recorded games, Gioachino Greco vs NN (1619AD) He did it in 8 moves.
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sirissac
27-Aug-13, 21:19
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I guess I have to correct my prior statement. The well known mate I was thinking of is actually Black's move, but your game is very similar. See en.wikipedia.org.
Perhaps finding this on your own is something to be proud of. Having not always been rated 1706, there are few games I'm really proud of; but generally because I was patient and out thought an equally committed opponent, not because my opponent made big error and gave me an early win. In other words, even if I had this mate against a 2700 opponent I would not be very proud of it.
Well, we've kind of wandered from the site discussion so I'll end here. Good luck with your future endeavors on Game Knot.
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blueimann
28-Aug-13, 00:39
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I'm sorry, Sirissac. I am also getting private congradulation messages and I was thinking of another player who is rated 2280. I don't think I would of seen it on my own if I hadn't already just studied it. I absolutely love wikipedia when it comes to learning Chess. I had found this game at chessgames.com. They're also calling it the Owen defense? Nice talking to you. Let's play some games, since your not rated over 2200.
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tactical_abyss
01-Sep-13, 23:00
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Good job blueimann on that Basman response win,even without points.I actually play the 1...g5 move and have a high success rate with it,but it can easily backfire if you do not know how to handle this irregular game like I would as black.
As to bragging rights,everything is relative,so brag away!I do it all the time and i'm proud of my bragging!
Here's one of my biggest brags,even though it was only a blitz game and against a player much weaker than me.(I copied and pasted my game and comments from my club Q sac link):
I love Kung fu movies.Its funny how the monkey jumps around the floor,even under a fighters legs
and is very dangerous.But as most of us know,the "dragon"is more powerful than the monkey.In this game I play the "dragon"! My spicy Queen sacrifice move on #3 rips off one of my own legs and arms.The monkey allows the dragon to move too close into monkey territory and mate ensues in 8 moves!Yes,I give my Queen away to monkey and monkey not only loses,but is mated in 8 moves.So how rare is it to give my Queen away on move 3 with only 1 pawn in return for my Queen loss and then mate my opponent in 8 moves?Rare my friends,rare!Yes,yes,yes...I know monkey was only 1305 in rating,but still,mate in 8 moves and giving my 9 points away on move #3?Even the sac master only gets these quick ones about once every 3 years!Enjoy the monkey slaughter below...(hey,thats his name!):
Fools mate without the Queen:
[Event "GameKnot Blitz"]
[Site "gameknot.com"]
[Date "2013.04.14"]
[Round "-"]5 min,zero increment.
[White "tactical_abyss"]Rating:2519
[Black "monkeykungphu"]Rating:1305
[Result "1-0"] Abyss mates black in 8 moves.
1. e4 c5 2. Qh5 a6 3. Qxf7+ Kxf7 4. Nf3 h6 5. Ne5+ Ke8 6. Be2 d6 7. Bh5+ g6 8. Bxg6# 1-0
So I had a mate in 8 moves even AFTER I sacrificed my Queen on move #3!!
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blueimann
02-Sep-13, 10:42
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Thanks.
I agree with you about everything. Yes, black mating white in 8 moves is common documented knowledge. It's mating black in 8 or less moves that is close to rare. Congratulations, you also won in a blitz game. Well it's been 3 years since I started playing chess just on a whim while cruising the web bored. I instantly got addicted and fell in love. So I got married to the chess board. For these wonderful 3 or more years of playing and studying two to 12 hours each and everyday, I can say I have made a good choice. Hope to see the golden anniversary. haha I just recently have been awaken with a loving desire of studying Gioachino Greco. He makes it look so simple. I can't wait to start using some of his openings and tactics I've learned. I can really identify with him as if I was in his head a little. His playing is so clear cut for me. For me, most of his games tactics recorded have already happened to me before, I just have to make it happen again. I've seen through his games many of the same winning tactics I have stumbled upon and am proud of myself for making the right decisions. Now it's going to be much easier and I feel I can make a step up the ladder. Now the game has really become more enjoyable. Funny thing, I've almost given up womanizing, women take away my time for studying and playing. Chess has become more desirable! Who would have guessed. This coming from someone who has fathered 6 kids, been married twice and has 4 girlfriends right now, (on the back burner, I'm single and loving it. Between the girlfriends and chess, it's a grand life.). haha I think I should start playing blitz games, it is so easy to find your weakness's, which for me has been the first 15 moves. Greco has pointed the way and I can't wait to see my results. I get much better when the board get light of piece's, but the opening easily lead me down the wrong path. I might add that a 3 move mate by white is not as common as was referred to. Almost everyone I have talked to have said that a 3 move mate is impossible and I have had to prove it. But now I get to bragg I made a mate in 2 moves, this according the the Gameknot.com. That's gonna get some serious negative response's. I should post again, Mate In Two and see what happens. haha….
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tactical_abyss
02-Sep-13, 11:08
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tactical_abyss
02-Sep-13, 11:10
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blueimann
02-Sep-13, 11:35
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Take back.
I take back the black mating white as common, my mistake.
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tactical_abyss
02-Sep-13, 11:51
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I was about to say that it is less common for white to mate black in 7 or 8 moves with a Queen sacrifice(even though it is well documented)than a mate in 3 with no sacrifice.The mates you are writing about are of a non sacrifice level.Try giving your Queen away on move #3 and mate in 8 moves or less.Yes,I have seen Queen sacrifices in 7 moves and mate,but the Queen was not given away in 3 moves like my game above...which makes that game above that I posted,even rarer than a mate in 3.But that is subject to a jury and opinion on that!My opinion is that throwing the equivalent of 3 major pieces away and then winning in less than 10 moves has a more victorious feel to it than a quick fools mate in 3 or 4 because the opponent had much more chance to destroy me with 9 points of mine gone,(my Queen gone)but failed.Whereas in your game you still have all your pieces.I suppose its a matter of opinion.
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tactical_abyss
02-Sep-13, 12:03
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Here,for example is a mate in 7 with a Q sac.But there is a huge difference!
White is "allowing"black to take the Q but he was not "forced"to do so.In my game above,"I" sacrificed my Queen and black was "forced"to take it due to the check.Certain "types" of mate styles,especially involving a Queen are considered in many chess circles to be rarer than the quick fools mates of 3 or 4.But again,this is subject to opinion.
www.chess.com
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blueimann
02-Sep-13, 13:35
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Your right.
I agree with you completely. My mate was just a fluke, basically it was all luck. For you we can call it an "All in" gamble. I would feel like dying if I lost my Queen on three. If I get a chance I will work with it. Feels like a few extra points coming my way, since most of the players I play have no idea (1300's) of traps and fast mates like this. I have to pick some kind of opening to start seriously studying and I'm going to go with the Kings Gambit. I'll spend the next 6 months studying only King Gambits. It makes sense to me and probably all the players over 1600. But It's a big step forward for me. I tried the French, the English, Queen gambits and a few others and never could get the hang of it or see any advantage or feel any power in them. Like I do with the Kings Gambits.
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