GameKnot: GameKnot related, is gameknot tthis smart

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GameKnot related: is gameknot tthis smart

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evader23
21-Nov-18, 14:39

is gameknot tthis smart

I know that is one side is down to just a King and the other has King and either bishop or knight it is draw by dead position I used to think it was the case with two knights and I think it stil should be beside the point.

I was looking online and more pices can be dead position is neither side can make legal moves for check mate. for example here www.alecjacobson.com

would gameknots ai recognize that as dead poistion

yon_cassius
22-Nov-18, 08:19

Two Knights

As far as I know, mate can't be forced with Two Knights... but if the defender plays badly enough, they can allow a mate to happen.
I'm guessing that GK only recognise positions as dead if it is impossible to occur... and that positions where it is possible have to be played out, unless a draw is agreed, or a situation occurs where it can be claimed.

baddeeds
22-Nov-18, 09:11

Actually, there is a way to checkmate with just both N's. But, it's extremely difficult to do. And, if a mistake were to be made, it would almost certainly be a draw. Now, if I had just both N's, I'd probably blunder which would allow a draw by the 50 move rule or draw by repetition. I don't know the exact moves, but for me, all that matters is how you do it. So, it what it boils down to, and it's exactly the same as the R+K endgame checkmate (where it's just R+K), or B+N endgame checkmate which was the first that I became familiar with (where it's just B+N). The answer is confining the opponents to the eighth or first rank, and then, to the corner where it can't get out. This is also idea with, just about, any other phases of the endgame which is why pushing a passed pawn and trying to promote is so important. And, I've converted the equations by thinking about the line of symmetry to teach 2 students chess. So, you mentioned about both N's and mate. Well, this is a perfect example,

because it is mate, in this position.

baddeeds
22-Nov-18, 09:13

Having said that, 2018's second sentence is spot on because it also has to be played out to reach a position, like the diagram above. And, I didn't even play it out but visualized it with what I understand.

amacivn
22-Nov-18, 15:20

Pretty sure
2 knights cannot force a checkmate Joe it's impossible to do
You can position a mate as per your board , but I've read it can be done K+P. V K +N+N
In my dark past but it maybe hard to beat 50 moves

neverherebefore
23-Nov-18, 01:50

Karjakin...

mated Sevian using 2 knights fairly recently. I'm sure you can find it yourselves.

amacivn
23-Nov-18, 07:03

Keep it clean !😒

lord_shiva
16-Dec-18, 07:36

Google Says

You can force mate with two bishops if they are on opposite color squares, but you cannot force mate with two knights.

It is not a drawn position because you can mate a "fool" king, one that deliberately (or accidentally) moves into the corner.

Bishop and knight can lead to force mate also, which I believe is the most difficult.

evader23
16-Dec-18, 07:45

Lord_sh1ive
B+N is not a dead position because you are right it can be done but like the two knight the oppoising king has to go to a corner.

Knowing this I was a1ble to stave off a mate by avoiding the corners. As you said it is difficult probly next impossible the opponent know to avoid the corner

lord_shiva
16-Dec-18, 07:59

Answer to Question

<<Would Gameknot recognize that as dead poistion.>>

No. GK does not allocate resources to identify drawn positions. It does not automatically apply the three repeats or 50 move rule either. A player must make a request to draw the game.

K alone, KN and KB are easy automatic draws. GK notes there is insufficient material to continue. Theoretically two players could continue playing the drawn position depicted in the opening question just shy of forever. GK has game history of K vs. KR games played for many hundreds of moves, neither player invoking the 50 move rule.

I once searched for GK's games of the most moves.

yon_cassius
16-Dec-18, 08:09

@ evader23

I can't do the Knight and Bishop Mate myself (learning it is on my to do list ), but...

First, the King has to be forced out of the centre of the board.

Then it has to be forced into the "wrong corner" (it's been a while since I read the article): the wrong corner is one which the attacker's Bishop can't reach (checkmate can't be forced in the wrong corner, but it can occur, I think, if the defender slips up.

Next, the King has to be forced into the "right corner".

Then the mate occurs...

From the most difficult position (that isn't stalemate, or where the defender can capture the Bishop or Knight, or move so that the attacker has to lose one of them) the mate takes 33 moves, with perfect play.
Every mistake by the attacker (that doesn't lose the win) will cost them 4 moves to reset the mate attempt.

baddeeds
16-Dec-18, 09:23

Yes, 2018. This is why I don't go by what google says. I like to think that they're always right, but even before the facts about chess, I was told by someone that they're known to make mistakes, unfortunately.

lord_shiva
16-Dec-18, 10:08

KNN

I think that game included a pawn.

I seriously doubt even Stockfish can mate a 1600 player with KNN.

archduke_piccolo
16-Dec-18, 11:53

Forced Mate with two knights...

It is possible, but only if the two knights can avoid Stalemate.

Check out this position:

White to move and win.

Having nothing much to do one afternoon about 15 years ago, I worked out how 2N vs P would win, and then tried to find how distant the knights could be and still win. The f7-knight could be on e8 or c8 and still win. If on c8, the first move may NOT be 1.Nc8xa7?? as then the game ends in a draw.

From the diagram it is checkmate in I think 8 moves.

archduke_piccolo
18-Dec-18, 00:09

Solution...

Here is an 8 move line that leads to a forced mate.

1.Ne5 ... (1.Nd6 is equally good)
1... Ka2 (Making a bid for freedom)
2.Nc4 ... (Shutting in the Black King. It can not escape now into mid-board)
2...a6
3.Ng6 a5
4.Nf4 a4
5.Nd3 a3
6.Nc1ch Ka1
7.Nd2 a2
8.N(either)b3#

1.Nd6 Ka2
2.Nc4 a6
3.Nf7 Ka1
4.Ne5 Ka2
5.Nd3 Ka1
6.Nc1 a5
7.Nd2 a4
8.Nb1 a3
9.Nc3 a2
10.Nb3#

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