GameKnot: GameKnot related, Database Oddity

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GameKnot related: Database Oddity

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lord_shiva
03-Jul-25, 07:27

Database Oddity

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. a3

At this point the World shows three games black wins playing Nf6 33% of the time.

Select Nf6 and white wins the majority of 271 games.

Another troubling aspect of the database is that you get down to a single game that black wins, but white can easily force mate in two moves. I assume time out, somehow?

markb56
05-Jul-25, 15:46

The GK move database is constructed using FEN positions with one or more links (i.e. moves) leading to the next FEN position (this is why you can get stuck in a loop where a series of moves links you back to the original FEN position, ad infinitum). Sometimes the number of links(moves) from one FEN to the next might be 33% of the time, but when you reach the next FEN position there are other links(moves) that arrive at the same new FEN position, and thus you might find there being another 271 links(moves) arriving at that position. I find using linked FEN positions a clever way to build a move database, but it can also be confusing in some cases.

And yes, the World games never indicate whether there was a timeout, so the winner of the game might have been losing. As Joe/PQL/TA will point out, there are much better databases to look at, and GK's are mostly a matter of convenience rather than perfection. Plus it's high-time the World database be updated with games more recent than 2000.

Regarding the GameKnot databases, these haven't been updated since Mike sold GK to the new owners in 2021 (updating the GK database was a manual process that Mike would do every few months as it would take many hours to generate and link all possible FEN positions from games played here at GK). Again, there are better databases available, but I always like seeing what the current/most popular move responses to a given position are being played here at GK. Since the GK player database hasn't been updated since June 2021, we're stuck looking at what's in the past and no longer in fashion (or maybe it remains in fashion since we don't see any new trends developing).

lord_shiva
05-Jul-25, 16:06

GK Bases

There are lots of obvious blunders the GK games. Not so much the world games. But it is disappointing to me timeouts obfuscate winning moves.

pop_queen_legend
08-Sep-25, 16:41

Deleted by pop_queen_legend on 08-Sep-25, 18:15.

pop_queen_legend
08-Sep-25, 17:31

Deleted by pop_queen_legend on 08-Sep-25, 18:15.

lord_shiva
08-Sep-25, 17:56

Opening Books

Here is the Hiarcs link again just in case the message above gets deleted:

www.hiarcs.com

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