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GameKnot related: Question about quick resignations...
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tactical_abyss 11-Jun-10, 08:30 |
 Question about quick resignations...Now,I do not play in tourneys,but I was just wondering if some players simply want to give away points to someone else for perhaps a rating inflation reason or other reason?For a master level player to resign a game in only 3 or 7 moves or with a clear cut advantage,well...it seems like "something is rotten in Denmark",if you know what I mean? Yes,perhaps what they do is "legal"by the chess rules,but ethical?Thats another story,I believe. |
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nyctalop 11-Jun-10, 13:54 |
and are subject to punishment. If you don't want to point fingers, try sending a message to Mike, I remember there was a similar situation some time ago and he took care of it. In my mind any repeating offender is worthy of a permanent ban. |
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tactical_abyss 11-Jun-10, 17:10 |
But I will not name names.Its not my style.It is however easy to come across atleast one player of whom i'm speaking of with alittle research and a few hints above.Be my guest if you come across whom i'm speaking of. I personally do not know how exactly the rules forbid that type of play or if it is just restricted to tourney play or not. Technically it does not affect me directly,since I do not play in tourneys like I said,but I suppose indirectly it could.For example,if a player lost,say 100 rating points but maintains a "hidden higher strength"of 100 points,that could affect my play with this opponent in a negative way.I might,for example,play a weaker opening or play more experimentally,letting my guard down alittle,since I believed that my opponent was a 2200 player,when in effect he was really 2300 in hidden strength.This could cause me to lose or even lose points with a draw that I might have avoided if I knew what is rating was more accurately.I might have even avoided playing this opponent.I suppose I could deeply research all or most of my opponents games prior to accepting challenges,but I don't always have the initiative to do that time consuming job. |
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baronderkilt 11-Jun-10, 22:19 |
There was a posting from GK .... A player is free to Resign any game whenever they want as their prerogative. (I draw from this that it does not have to be board factors. Perhaps anticipating timeouts otherwise or personal reasons!? ) But that a player may not engage in rating manipulation. (So I gather it "becomes" rating manipulation at some point, whether specific, or some case by case review. Perhaps there must be complaint? I do not know) **** However, a later thread just this year mentioned the matter of accepting draws that lead to advancement in an MT or GK Tmt ... which GK has in the rules, is not acceptable to draw just for that purpose. And then GK did speak to the thread in a way that again did not draw a specific demarcation point (aka "a Line") but left it somewhat ambiguous, while reiterating players had better Not do it. Leaving a sense that someone "piling straws on a camels back" in accepting MT/GKT Draws that do happen to cause them or someone to advance had better be very careful to neither 'Pile the one straw too many', or 'Pile one or more OBVIOUSLY unacceptable kind of a straw' onto the camel back. Tho it is not defined to any greater extent than in the rules, what is definitively UNACCEPTABLE; nor when that becomes obvious or who will determine that, and under what circumstances He/She/They/It may Act punitively. So all in all, I really LIKE the way GK put it for tournaments (tho being one of the few who do, I gather), for it says clearly 'at your own peril, do ye go there' so you best err on the side of conservatism(small "c" but non-economic), or If in Doubt = best forgo. *** Re the matter now at hand, thusfar I have only tried to present my interpretation of info from GK. So let me only add that I personally feel it is not proper to make a single "Gimme" game result just to make a tmt advancement or rating change as a sole reason, especially if it is done at the detriment of a 3rd player participant of a section. Yet I'd recognize there are/can-be many legit reasons to Resign a game that are not necessarily position related. In a surely winning or very favorable posiiton tho, perhaps a Draw Offer would be acceptible to minimize effects vs having to Resign it, in such case. There really can be a great many moral/eithical considerations involved, to many. Yet others will say ... It is only a Game, and attach little of either to it. And thus stated, between 2 truthful proposiitons; there has to be miles of gray area. imo. (Yet others will see a black & white situtuation, i am sure, where supporting arguments can be ample in either direction. I wonder if this will be a huge thread then ? ........ (Tho it has been a common site in Exp/Master level Postal play that players agree to 2 draws in a match if each slightly behind in a game or an equal and slightly behind but not worth playout time & effort. In that vein there may be cases here when the two players might perhaps trade a loss in one tmt for a win in the other ...that both compete in? I have not seen this, just mention the possibility. And state I dont have a problem with the draws mentioned, but think perhaps trading wins is too affecting to games of others if any other has a chance to advance but for that "win" there. If No One could surpase the player whether he win lose or draw, and such wins are traded ... well that is interesting & I'm sure how to see That at this moment. Perhaps a legit time saver for both if not in such quantities to make Great rating change. Little changes work themselves back out soon enough. ) |
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baronderkilt 11-Jun-10, 22:22 |
How its written was : But Should have been ... that is interesting & I'm NOT sure how to see That at this moment. |
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tactical_abyss 12-Jun-10, 04:17 |
Personally it really dosen't matter to me even in the amount of 1 divided by a googolplex...(hmmmm,thats some infinitesimal #!)with this issue,but I was really more curious of "why"players do this.As you mentioned above,things can work themselves back soon enough rating wise,however,in the "short run" it CAN affect how another opponent may play(style wise,defensive wise) that other opponent if he didn't thoroughly check out the rating drop,which may be more than just a "few"points.It might not make much of a difference in the rating result if the new game ends up a draw or even a win,but it could in effect theoretically end up a higher probability of a loss,if one is not careful enough in observing this point loss from player "A"and does approach the game differently. And i'm not speaking of intentional draws or sickness excuses or anything like that.Again,just curious,since I would never resign a game in 3 moves,5 moves ,7 moves ect ect.But I do observe this behavior,not only in master levels but many other levels as well.As mentioned above,I would assume that players that do this are sometimes taking a big risk,even as far as being tossed off the site.But again,I don't keep up with all the GK rules regarding all these issues due to the fact that I don't need to...I never do these things,so nothing to worry about!I'm sort of like the guy that sets his cruise control at 55 MPH on a long straight interstate highway that has no construction.I don't need to look at the speed limit signs,since I never go over the limits! |
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jotheblackqueen 12-Jun-10, 10:07 |
My view on resignation! I would recommend that in order to cover yourself from being banned for rating manipulation is to explain in your resignation note to your opponent exactly why you are resigning no matter how obvious it seems. I usually say, Hi xxxxx I am writing to let you know that I am resigning our game on the grounds of ruinous loss of material/unavoidable mate. I have analysed the position as follows ..... Well played - Joanne. This is very important because in a game against Coach Ion, I resigned on the grounds of unavoidable mate only for him to say that I had a defense against the mate which I overlooked. So, if you guys give the above explanation in your resignation note then your opponent knows you have made a genuine mistake and are not trying to manipulate your rating. It has not happened to me yet and I hope it will not happen to me but if I find I have bitten off more than I can chew then again, if I have to resign because of too many games/other external factors then I shall say to my opponent. "Hi xxxx, I am writing to let you know that I am resiging our game because I have found myself unable to cope with my games workload and I have personal issues outside the chess that I need to deal with right now. I apologise for my resignation and wish you all the best in your other games." I will try and avoid this however and any games outside mini-tournaments will be unrated and with the longest time control possible that my opponent will allow unless I am playing Master opposition and am likely to lose between 0-2 rating points only. This will allow me to give priority to mini-tournament games. I am also trying to keep my games level down to less than 20. I have not been playing in Gameknot Tournaments because of the two day time control. So in a nutshell all this has enabled me to bring all my games to a natural conclusion win lose or draw. Do you think this helps in any way or do you have any other suggestions? Anyhow, I hope you are all having a nice weekend. Bye for now. Joanne |
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black_cat_hamlet 12-Jun-10, 22:26 |
The simplest option of all... Seriously though, what would be the point of rating manipulation? lowering your rating doesn't make much sense - it wouldn't help in tournaments (which, if I remember, bases your rating on your highest in 90 days anyway) and even if it is for psychological advantages, there's no guarantee that it will work... Raising your rating via manipulation isn't going to work either - If I did this to make myself look like a 1800 player, It wouldn't stop me playing like a 1500 player, and the resulting losses would just be demoralising! Joanne's right though - if you're resigning due to reasons other than the game, you should explain why to your opponent |
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tactical_abyss 13-Jun-10, 01:35 |
Whatever the reason some players do this and whether there is some good reason or not,or even if there is no guarantee that quitting a game after a few moves will or will not possibly affect another players play,or whether it is for some kind of rating manipulation or not....I believe that repeat offenders would be walking a thin plank with mike and the GK rules as nyctalop mentioned above....even with explanations to your opponent,which,by the way could simply be made up invented excuses. Perhaps in tournament play or team play it can lead to atleast short term negatives,I do not know.But one thing is for certain,its not a good idea to continually quit games after just a few moves and the bottom line is that your play can get suspended temporarily or permanently from what other players have told me.So doing this should not be taken lightly,even with "excuses"to your opponent. |
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tactical_abyss 13-Jun-10, 02:05 |
This short term chess quitting game with "excuses"when available,reminds me of other real life scenarios out there. When driving your car and you drive too slowly(39 mph) on the highway for example because your car isn't tuned up and doing 45-55mph will make the engine miss,or you drifted through a stop sign because it was partially covered by a tree limb and in both cases the police officer stopped you and you gave the officer "excuses" of why you cannot go atleast 45mph on the highway or that you didn't see that stop sign until it was "too late"(all good excuses!)...how long do you think this will work?And as to not getting a ticket...well,the police officer has heard all the stories before,and depending upon his mood,he may give you a warning OR a ticket,its up to him.Depends upon the jurisdiction many times where your car and you were located...(side thought...tournament?). So the motto of this story is??? |