GameKnot: Chess related, Caro-Kann at your judgement

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Chess related: Caro-Kann at your judgement

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loreta
18-May-10, 22:27

Caro-Kann at your judgement

In the last day I posted a lot of messages - but you can avoid them easely - just do not READ them!
I apologise, that could be out of main stream, but .... there was my first annotation and I invite you for your judgement:
gameknot.com

It isn't very exhaustive, but ... at the moment ... I has no much time and I don't want to wait more... and I hope to improve it later...

Be harshly critical, be acid, ... let's bite and salt - that is much better than to be silent... Go and do it!

black_cat_hamlet
19-May-10, 03:45

Well...

You can make sure that more people see the annotation if you export the PGN, create a new annotation, import the PGN and then save the annotation so that it appears in the top of the 'Annotated Games' list

I'll take a look at it

loreta
31-May-10, 06:09

Variation vs CK

Question to those, who plays Caro-Kann or played against it -
It is interesting which (in your opinion) variation is the most dangerous to Black: Classical, Smyslov's, Advanced, Panov, 2 Knights, Fantasy, Exchange?...

tactical_abyss
31-May-10, 08:39

Loreta....

Most CK lines that are "more dangerous"for black are those variations that give black more of a minimal edge or additional trouble(even minute)in equalizing.It all depends upon your rating/skills.
Lines without 2.d4(excluding the Two Knights variation),are considered more dangerous by masters due to the fact that it subjects black to initiate some very careful defensive moves to equalize,compared to other variations.

1.e4,c6
2.c4,e5
3.d4,Bb4+
4.Bd2,Bxd2+
5.Qxd2,d6
6.Nc3,Qf6
7.Nge2,Ne7
8.0-0-0,0-0
9.f4,Bg4
10.f5,Nc8
11.d5 with initiative for white

or....
1.e4,c6
2.c4,d5
3.exd5,cxd5
4.cxd5,Nf6
5.Bb5+,Bd7
6.Bc4,b5
7.Bb3,Na6
8.Nf3,Nb4
9.Ne5,Nbxd5
10.Nc3,e6
11.0-0 with initiative for white

In addition,the Exchange Variation generally holds slghtly more of an advantage for white with razor sharp play from white from many lines that I have analyzed including some old Fischer games.I would also avoid the exchange variation for black,but this is my opinion and does not apply to everyone.
I would consider the Advanced Variation much better for black than all the rest such as Panov,Fantasy.But again,opinions vary.

loreta
31-May-10, 10:51

Great! Razor sharp opinion!

Great J.! --- I had forgotten 2. c4 (it seems it is called Steiner's). But I always feel some uncertainity when playing with (or against) an isolator...
You mentioned R.Fischer - but F. played Two Knights variation heavily ...
And I'm very curious (at the moment) about Exchange variation as I found it isn't so innocent...

tactical_abyss
31-May-10, 12:04

Well,I have access to some unpublished Fischer games played at the Manhattan Chess Club,but on pg 194 of MCO-15 you can find a partial opening Fischer/Petrosian game from 1970 where white had gained a strong edge(avoiding the exchange of light squared Bishops)classified under the Exchange Variation....not a Two Knights Variation.
Don't get me wrong,the E.Variation is fine for black under some of the more modern theories,however you mentioned the "most dangerous"and the closest thing I could think of on the top of my memory was the Exchange compared to more traditional like the Panov or Main Line Defense.Its all in how one handles the skill in a particular variation.Most of my companions at the Marshall Club on Master/Senion Master levels seem to par much better with the Advanced Variation lines,rather than the Exchange variation,so i'm just passing opn some general info.
au revoir

tactical_abyss
31-May-10, 12:23

Oh,above,to be more specific,I meant to say that my companions are paring much better as white with the Exchange Variation... "winning"more on the white side than the black side.So against my Senior Master friends at the club,I would not want to be playing black on the receiving end of the Exchange Variation.But at the lower rating levels I suppose the tide can turn any direction.Still,I will promote the Advanced Variation for better winning chances for black than other variations.Just my opinion,however.

loreta
31-May-10, 13:02

Fisher's game

I did some search and I hope you've mentioned that game:

[Event "Beograd World-SU Rd: 1"]
[Date "1970.??.??"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "Robert James Fischer"]
[Black "Petrosian"]

1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. Bd3 Nc6 5. c3 Nf6 6. Bf4 Bg4
7. Qb3 Na5 8. Qa4+ Bd7 9. Qc2 e6 10. Nf3 Qb6 11. a4 Rc8
12. Nbd2 Nc6 13. Qb1 Nh5 14. Be3 h6 15. Ne5 Nf6 16. h3 Bd6
17. O-O Kf8 18. f4 Be8 19. Bf2 Qc7 20. Bh4 Ng8 21. f5 Nxe5
22. dxe5 Bxe5 23. fxe6 Bf6 24. exf7 Bxf7 25. Nf3 Bxh4 26. Nxh4
Nf6 27. Ng6+ Bxg6 28. Bxg6 Ke7 29. Qf5 Kd8 30. Rae1 Qc5+
31. Kh1 Rf8 32. Qe5 Rc7 33. b4 Qc6 34. c4 dxc4 35. Bf5 Rff7
36. Rd1+ Rfd7 37. Bxd7 Rxd7 38. Qb8+ Ke7 39. Rde1+ 1-0

tactical_abyss
31-May-10, 15:11

Yes,there it is,good research job,loreta.
I have this in my database somewhere,but didn't feel like looking it up this holiday(US).
Looks to me to be the Exchange Variation I was speaking of,perhaps with a touch of Panov influence?Here again,white has it,although for black,I feel 7.....Qd7 would have been better,but that is easier to say 40 years later!
In tourneys,i've never been much of a fan of the CK on the black side.I've always had a mistrust of it giving white better freedom of movement as they say,but its popularity is on the rise.

loreta
01-Jun-10, 12:15

More about that game...

At home I found the book "Russians against Fischer" having that game
It would be interesting to cite Taimonov: "I remember as before beginning of 1st game Fischer was out of himself. He appeared with delay of half of hour, white as chalk, and long time was not able to make his first move. And only when game engulfed him totally, Fisher restored his self-trusting and his energy.
.
Some notes about opening part of that game:
1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. Bd3 Nc6 5. c3 Nf6 [5. … g6] 6. Bf4 [6. h3?! e5!; 6. Bg5?! Ne4!] Bg4 [6. ... g6 7. h3 Bg7 8. Nf3 +==] 7. Qb3 Na5?! [better 7. ... Qc8 or 7. ... Qd7 8. Nd2 e6 9. Ngf3 Bxf3 10. Nxf3 Bd6 unclear] 8. Qa4+ Bd7 [8. ... Nc6!?] 9. Qc2 e6 [9. ... a6!? 10. a4! Qb6 11. Nd2] 10. Nf3 Qb6 [10. ... Be7 11. 0-0 +==; 10. ... Nc4 11. 0-0 Bd6 12. Be5!] 11. a4!
Of course, understanding of openings was different 40 years ago...

kansasjayhawk
01-Jun-10, 14:41

I used to play the Caro Kann as Black, and what I found the most annoying to play against was the Panov Attack, but that's more because, in general, I don't like playing either side of IQP positions, so such a subjective question I think largely depends on the strengths/weaknesses of the individual players. When mentioning this to other CK players, they often say "that's easy to face!"

It may also be that I never got a lot of experience playing against it. In OTB tournaments, I think I only faced it twice ever, and neither time managed to make it out of the opening.

loreta
28-Jul-10, 00:27

Scorpion-Horus Gambit

Dooes somebody has an opinion about --- The Scorpion-Horus Gambit proposed by Clyde Nakamura: 1.e4 c6 2.Nc3 d5 3.d3 dxe4 4.Bg5 ... ???

easy19
28-Jul-10, 12:29

Hello Loreta i play just a few of the caro kann lines on occasion..
usually it will be the anti anti caro khan so far with suc6

But i have i think something more interesting for you..
gameknot.com

A very cunning nuke the Caro Kann variation.. well i do not think it will be played on a otb game just because the queen sacrifice can be declined with a big favor for black.
But i am sure you find it interesting

baronderkilt
28-Jul-10, 15:06

?!!? Um Wow ... Easy

I really am getting out of the mainstream in Chess, if they added a new piece and I didnt even hear about it !? What's a "Suc" and how does it move ?!! )
}8-D
PS// I am still hanging in there with Fischer's 2 Knight's variation or 2.d4 mainlines. I used to specialize somewhat in that 2 Knights line where BL answers h3 with Bh4 and later passive sacs it by playing Nge7; when BL permits. Fun stuff. Tho the highest level game I had with it, Collister-Noble , did only Draw. But the interestingness is the main attraction

baronderkilt
28-Jul-10, 15:13

BTW ...

since its mentioned, my own thought to anyone playing against the Panov would be: Don't drop a tempo, nor capture dxc4 unless you have to, and learn to handle any WT c5 push try; and seems to me like a cake-walk to play against. Then again I haven't looked at it since the 90's; so if I ever play a Caro here .... hmmm, maybe I never will play a Caro here now )

loreta
31-Aug-10, 03:27

Caro Kann Exchange

I started new (very slow) MT for Caro Kann Exchange (or Panov) variation: gameknot.com
Some annotations after MT will be provided (I hope for participants' good will for that, too)...
You can join and enjoy!

loreta
31-Aug-10, 03:33

dxc with Panov

Hi Craig,
you'd watch my game with very early dxc4 against Panov:

game
(please, no any remarks about that game as it is in the progress)...

_Freddy_ - there was really interesting game (following your link): gameknot.com

shamash
11-Jul-11, 16:45

The Caro-Kann variation that is fun for Black to play

Wondering, for Black, which variation of the Caro-Kann is the most fun to play?

Wondering, for Black, is any variation of the Caro-Kann fun to play?

If I go hunting, I like to take along a trusty gun. I also like target practice to be fun.

As to the 1st criterion: the Caro-Kann has proved very trustworthy for me --

But as to the 2nd: the positions it gives rise to (at least the way I play them) feel dangerous and look horrible. No fun at all. It is like painting a target on my King, inviting an ambush, and then fighting off the assaults of pieces and pawnstorms. Eventually, its structure does prevail. But. . . .

When I play the Caro, I miss the fun of chess as a game. Especially in the middlegame.

So I ask, are there any lines in the Caro-Kann that are fun for Black to play?

baronderkilt
11-Jul-11, 23:38

Shamash

1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe 4.Ne4 Nf6 5.Nxf6 gxf6 ... fun fun / Wins a lot, seldom loses.

***
1. e4 c6 2. Nc3 d5 3. Nf3 Bg4 4. h3 Bh5 5. exd5 cxd5 6. Bb5+ Nc6 7. g4 Bg6 8. Ne5 Rc8 9. d4 e6 10. Be3 Bb4 11. h4 Nge7 12. h5 Be4 13. f3 Qa5 ... interesting fun
****
The second line, back from MCO-12 days would commonly come to an ending with 4 pawns for a piece, yet often drawing. I tried some variants playing as WT and still ended up drawing. But it is fun to not lose, with Black.

shamash
12-Jul-11, 00:49

the Larsen-Bronstein System in the Caro-Kann

Thank you, Craig.

Regarding the first line {1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe 4.Ne4 Nf6 5.Nxf6 gxf6 ... }
although a miniature, is this game

game typical of this line?

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